ATW/Keolis Amey Wales stock shortages

[Astradyne]

I wonder if derogation will be granted for Pacers/150/158s. TFW only started PRM Mods about 6 months ago and have 60 units (24 x 168s and 36 x 150s) to be completed. At the moment there are only about 6 of that that have been done. The clock is ticking. They will still have to go to Works whether the 769s ever come or not

I think you are mistaken about what the derogation process is ... and what is allowed for. It allows for thing like button being a few centimetres outside the requirements. Derogation certainly doesn't apply for wholesale changes that were not made due to completly shambolic planning.

If TfW operate trains that are non-compliant after deadline, they risk being taken to court, prosecuted and fined ... and can see at least one disabled body undertaking this course of action if these events arise.

You would hope KeolisAmy recognised this risk, and factored it in finacially to their bid, or there was an undertaking for any fines to be based on to the Welsh Assembly.

 

[anthony263]

Yes but the two prototypes if they could be accepted for passenger use would be great now for extra capacity with this stock crisis

 

[Eccles1983]

If a transfer of units happens early next year it won't be 142s - all Northern depots sign 142s but only Leeds/ York/ Harrogate/ Sheffield sign 144s, so operationally they're more difficult to diagram at the moment vs a 142, with the shortage of units to fulfil the daily train plan.

True but 144's are contained solely to them depots anyway and never venture over the hills. Diagramming is easy as long as they aren't used for anything going to Manchester/Blackburn.

Also a big part in all of this is the power local government and MP's have in the Yorkshire area. Particularly Harrogate. Theirs a reason why the totally unsuitable 170's ended up on the leeds-harrogate-york services. It would go down a stink if the 144's were allowed to go without suitable replacements. And with the problems relating to cascades and late delivery I can see why the drums are beating on 144's being given a long stay.

 

[Llanigraham]

Like what was just suggested about the drs loco hauled sets what about seeing if west coast rail could hire out a loco hauled set like they hsve done recently for northern. It might be expensive but it would be a godsend on the valley lines especially if it freed up some dmus to increase capscity on other services

Are there suitably trained drivers available?
How long would it take to train the guards on these trains?
Is the route suitable and cleared for them?
Are there othe routes more suited to them, releasing DMU's in that way?

 

[bigbadhenry]

Yes but the two prototypes if they could be accepted for passenger use would be great now for extra capacity with this stock crisis

No last train to Blaenau Ffestinog unit needed for 1D70 also the branch has no unit for tomorrow due to stock shortage wheel flats etc.Looks like our wonderful branch line takes the hit yet again watch this space for friday and saturday.

 

[daikilo]

Given that TfW has pronounced themselves as the operator (e.g. per their website), can they lease in trains such as from WCRC and just pay for them without worrying greatly about what Keolis/Amey think?

They may even find staff who remember the shuttles on the Rhymney.

 

[Cardiff123]

Given that TfW has pronounced themselves as the operator (e.g. per their website), can they lease in trains such as from WCRC and just pay for them without worrying greatly about what Keolis/Amey think?

They may even find staff who remember the shuttles on the Rhymney.

'Transport for Wales' are not the operator though. They are the arms length body set up by Welsh Govt to oversee the development of public transport in Wales.

The operator of the W&B franchise is Keolis Amey, who are operating under the brand name of 'TfW Rail services' and are answerable to TfW and Welsh Govt.

Confused? Most people are.

 

[craigybagel]

Given that TfW has pronounced themselves as the operator (e.g. per their website), can they lease in trains such as from WCRC and just pay for them without worrying greatly about what Keolis/Amey think?

They may even find staff who remember the shuttles on the Rhymney.

It's not a case of "remembering", it's a fact that were anybody from TfW to work them they would need full training on LHCS from scratch. Unless you wanted to wait several months to obtain stock that doesn't meet PRM and will need to be withdrawn again shortly afterwards, you'd have to get WCRC crews in instead - good luck finding enough to work an all day service on a relatively obscure branch line hundreds of miles from their nearest base, and being able to provide them day in day out for as long as it takes to get through this shortage.

 

[Phil Scott]

The rake is paid for by Arriva (as part of the national deal to do with DB's takeover of Arriva) TfW have got it sub leased till Dec 19 - then i dare say that Chiltern have plans for it especially as there Oxford route esp Bicester Village is causing them capacity issues.

Would Chiltern be allowed to use the mk3s currently usd by TfW, given they still have slam doors and don’t have retention toilets?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Whole pile of full and part cancellations tomorrow see

https://www.journeycheck.com/tfwrail/

 

[Gareth Marston]

Would Chiltern be allowed to use the mk3s currently usd by TfW, given they still have slam doors and don’t have retention toilets?

Not straight away!

 

[PHILIPE]

Whole pile of full and part cancellations tomorrow see

https://www.journeycheck.com/tfwrail/

Spread to West Wales throughout the day yesterday following the morning ones, also the Cambrian

 

[anamyd]

158-829 now modified and on Mach-Aber-Mach tonight; a quarter of 158s now done

 

[Emblematic]

I think you are mistaken about what the derogation process is ... and what is allowed for. It allows for thing like button being a few centimetres outside the requirements. Derogation certainly doesn't apply for wholesale changes that were not made due to completly shambolic planning.

If TfW operate trains that are non-compliant after deadline, they risk being taken to court, prosecuted and fined ... and can see at least one disabled body undertaking this course of action if these events arise.

You would hope KeolisAmy recognised this risk, and factored it in financially to their bid, or there was an undertaking for any fines to be based on to the Welsh Assembly.

You've confused a derogation (exemption) with a dispensation, as set out in RIR 2011. What you're describing is a dispensation, which can be granted by the SoS for minor technical infringements so long as the 'essential requirements' are met. A derogation covers a situation where the essential requirements of PRM-TSI or RVAR cannot be met at all, and is altogether harder to obtain. At present, the regulation requires the request for derogation to be passed to the European Commission for approval, so how that works after March is anyone's guess. Doubtless it will join the mountain of legislation that needs rewriting post-brexit.

 

[PHILIPE]

158-829 now modified and on Mach-Aber-Mach tonight; a quarter of 158s now done

Just wondering out of curiosity why you put a - between the first 3 and the second 3 of the numbers. This came to me after reading another recent thread and this was discussed.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Just wondering out of curiosity why you put a - between the first 3 and the second 3 of the numbers. This came to me after reading another recent thread and this was discussed.

How the hell did a " - " raise a discussion.

These forums do like to create something of nothing sometimes!! Its unusual I grant you. But separates the class from the vehicle number nicely.

 

[PHILIPE]

How the hell did a " - " raise a discussion.

These forums do like to create something of nothing sometimes!! Its unusual I grant you. But separates the class from the vehicle number nicely.

This is what gave me the idea, not complaining:-

/www.railforums.co.uk/threads/can-you-search-by-the-headcode.173589

It's only because of the content of this reminded me

 

[anamyd]

How the hell did a " - " raise a discussion.

These forums do like to create something of nothing sometimes!! Its unusual I grant you. But separates the class from the vehicle number nicely.

It's all good, I'll answer PHILIPE's question

 

[anamyd]

Just wondering out of curiosity why you put a - between the first 3 and the second 3 of the numbers. This came to me after reading another recent thread and this was discussed.

I actually got it from a blog post I since haven't been able to find, written by a man who said he wasn't a trainspotter / rail enthusiast, but that his son was, and he noticed an article or advert in one of his son's magazines about some new models of "Class 390 trains" and worked out that "Class 390s are Virgin Pendolinos". Since those trains were his "commuter trains" to and from work, he decided to write a blog post that was a list of all the units he had been on, with their unit numbers in 390-xxx form and their names. He eventually had ticked off all units except for "390-033", the one that was written off. As for why I use xxx-xxx, I dunno really it just kinda stuck!

 

[PHILIPE]

I actually got it from a blog post I since haven't been able to find, written by a man who said he wasn't a trainspotter / rail enthusiast, but that his son was, and he noticed an article or advert in one of his son's magazines about some new models of "Class 390 trains" and worked out that "Class 390s are Virgin Pendolinos". Since those trains were his "commuter trains" to and from work, he decided to write a blog post that was a list of all the units he had been on, with their unit numbers in 390-xxx form and their names. He eventually had ticked off all units except for "390-033", the one that was written off. As for why I use xxx-xxx, I dunno really it just kinda stuck!

d seen the form

Thanks for the reply, was just curious especially as I'd never seen the format before and now seen it twice within 2 days

 

[PHILIPE]

This Saturday TfW have gone for not running services past Wolverhampton so its Aberystwyth to Wolverhampton (ATW) again! Officially its due to Storm Callum......but there is a game on in Cardiff...

Which in theory frees 4 units up.

Worse this Saturday although trains going through to Birmingham International this week. Services affected include reduced Cambrian, Blaenau Ffestiniog, Wrexham to Bidston halved, reduced southern end Heart of Wales, Shrewsbury to Crewe local, West Wales (apart from Milford Haven) bustitution. The full details can be found in a yellow banner on TFW Journey Check.

/www.journeycheck.com/tfwrail/

 

[krus_aragon]

Egads, that's savage.

All NW-Manchester services turned back at Oxford Road, Aberystwyth-Shrewsbury and Wrexham-Bidston both cut back to two-hourly, Crewe-Shrewsbury stoppers all bustituted, three of the four (through) services on the Heart of Wales are cancelled south of Llandrindod/Llanwrtyd. And that's on top of the usual abandonment of the Conwy Valley and thinning out of West Wales services.

The international rugby in Cardiff is arguably the lesser draw of the series, and there are no big football matches tomorrow either. The cupboard must be absurdly bare at the moment.

 

[PHILIPE]

Egads, that's savage.

All NW-Manchester services turned back at Oxford Road, Aberystwyth-Shrewsbury and Wrexham-Bidston both cut back to two-hourly, Crewe-Shrewsbury stoppers all bustituted, three of the four (through) services on the Heart of Wales are cancelled south of Llandrindod/Llanwrtyd. And that's on top of the usual abandonment of the Conwy Valley and thinning out of West Wales services.

The international rugby in Cardiff is arguably the lesser draw of the series, and there are no big football matches tomorrow either. The cupboard must be absurdly bare at the moment.

A bonus though is the fact that the line is closed all weekend for Engineering work between Holyhead and Bangor saving a unit. The North Wales LHCS is booked to work between Crewe to Cardiff and return. Wales v South Africa next week, 24th

 

[krus_aragon]

I'd missed that detail. From a look at Realtime Trains, it seems that they'll be pulling everything but the Gerallt Gymro rake out of Holyhead for the weekend.

 

[PHILIPE]

I'd missed that detail. From a look at Realtime Trains, it seems that they'll be pulling everything but the Gerallt Gymro rake out of Holyhead for the weekend.

Good idea

 

[PHILIPE]

Cancellations, whole and part, and short forms continuing Monday:-

www.journeycheck.com/tfwrail/

 

[Cambrian359]

Cancellations, whole and part, and short forms continuing Monday:-

www.journeycheck.com/tfwrail/

Wow can it get any worse?

 

[krus_aragon]

I see the "solution" has evolved slightly:

Pembroke Dock services only operate West of Carmarthen.
One Fishguard return working and the early morning HOWL shuttle to Llandovery dropped.
Selected Cheltenham trains cancelled, as well as a general assortment of others.
Aberystwyth-Shrewsbury and Borderlands two-hourly again.
Conwy Valley suspended as ever.
City line operated with one coach only (153s), and warnings of short forms elsewhere on the Valleys.

 

[PHILIPE]

I see "solution" has evolved slightly:

Pembroke Dock services only operate West of Carmarthen.
One Fishguard return working and the early morning HOWL shuttle to Llandovery dropped.
Selected Cheltenham trains cancelled, as well as a general assortment of others.
Aberystwyth-Shrewsbury and Borderlands two-hourly again.
Conwy Valley suspended as ever.
City line operated with one coach only (153s), and warnings of short forms elsewhere on the Valleys.

At least, there is a plan in place so that everybody should be aware as to what is taking place rather than try and work ad hoc and struggle through the day. One day last week, the 1634 Cardiff to Ebbw Vale which is a heavily loaded evening peak train and booked 4 Cars was worked by a single DogBox

 

[Cardiff123]

I'm amazed these problems haven't been brought up in FMQs yet. No doubt Welsh Labour AMs are under orders from commander-in-chief Carwyn to keep quiet and not to overshadow his last few weeks in office.
I doubt any of the AMs in the Assembly understand the chain of events dating back years, that Welsh Govt is largely responsible for, that has led to this crisis situation anyway.