ASLEF overtime ban impact

[BPN2022]

What’s the break down of next weeks service and the impact it’s having on each TOC?

Northern look running a near normal advertised service but have advised to expect disruption? Will this be on the day ad hoc cancellations rather than pre planned removals?

GTR seem to have removed a lot of trains and gone into a unique timetable, so are they more reliant on rest day work?

Avanti have left it near normal too which baffles me given there reliance on rest day work?

 

[philosopher]

What’s the break down of next weeks service and the impact it’s having on each TOC?

Northern look running a near normal advertised service but have advised to expect disruption? Will this be on the day ad hoc cancellations rather than pre planned removals?

GTR seem to have removed a lot of trains and gone into a unique timetable, so are they more reliant on rest day work?

Avanti have left it near normal too which baffles me given there reliance on rest day work?

Chiltern seem to be heavily impacted by the overtime ban, with one train per hour to Birmingham, two per hour to Oxford and one per hour to Princes Risborough. They are not running any services over the Met Line or serving local London stations.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

I'm travelling on GWR for some of next week, although not for very long distances; Exeter to Paignton, Paignton to Taunton and Taunton to Weymouth (the latter of which might necessitate some revision to my plans and a potential diversion via SWR).

 

[Failed Unit]

GTRs timetable is a total mess next week, but I understand it is the complexity of the drivers diagrams as well as too much dependency on overtime. Let’s say the train goes from Bedford - Brighton. Drive A does Brighton— East Croydon, they can’t take the train so the whole diagram is cancelled (even if the relief to East Croydon was available) It think it that complexity while they are hit so hard.

But it is less then 50% service running. It could be cosy.

 

[Sleepy]

I think the overtime ban and resulting cancellations and overcrowding will increase MPs mail and concentrate minds more than odd days strikes have.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

But it is less then 50% service running. It could be cosy.

And don't forget, not a penny of compensation due, nor any additional capacity with declassification of first class. What a glorious time to travel.

 

[Starmill]

And don't forget, not a penny of compensation due, nor any additional capacity with declassification of first class. What a glorious time to travel.

All I can say is that I hope anyone who is denied a refund if they don't travel, or compensation if they do travel but can show this action has measurably worsened their journey, takes a complaint case all the way through the Rail Ombudsman's process, or tries to get a resolution through GTR's complaints handling process, but if they're unsuccessful with either or both, goes to litigation. Anyone who has bought a ticket directly from GTR and is in time for a chargeback application, or is eligible for a claim under the Consumer Credit Act, should also look at these means of trying to recover some of their money.

 

[matthewjohnson]

I have a few options for next Saturday which I'm wondering whether to bother with.

Football in Carlisle, using Northern and Avanti

Cricket in Nottingham using Northern or LNER/EMR

Cricket in London using LNER

The weather may yet put the cricket out of the equation anyway, of course

 

[footprints]

Avanti have left it near normal too which baffles me given there reliance on rest day work?

Haven't Aslef drivers at Avanti been refusing to work rest days and overtime since last summer?

 

[43066]

refusing to work rest days

This is a misleading and ridiculously loaded way of describing the situation.

Not working on the days one is not contractually required to work is hardly refusing to work, unless you also think Monday to Friday office workers refuse to work Saturdays or Sundays.

 

[brick60000]

This is a misleading and ridiculously loaded way of describing the situation.

Not working on the days one is not contractually required to work is hardly refusing to work, unless you also think Monday to Friday office workers refuse to work Saturdays or Sundays.

This, 100%.

I may have some strong opinions about other areas of this dispute, but I will defend this until the cows come home.

It sits in the same category of “salary race to the the bottom” nursed get less money than train drivers for me.

People expecting to use trains on their days off, by forcing others to work….their days off.

I’m confident that a significant majority of people with any input or professional interest in this dispute would prefer Sundays were properly and fairly made part of the working week with the same rights and protections as other working days. Not enforced overtime. Unfortunately, it seems the government don’t share this opinion…

 

[JonathanH]

But it is less then 50% service running. It could be cosy

I expect that most office workers, seeing that there are limited trains, will simply work from home and not struggle into the office.

 

[43066]

I’m confident that a significant majority of people with any input or professional interest in this dispute would prefer Sundays were properly and fairly made part of the working week with the same rights and protections as other working days. Not enforced overtime. Unfortunately, it seems the government don’t share this opinion…

Absolutely.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

GTRs timetable is a total mess next week, but I understand it is the complexity of the drivers diagrams as well as too much dependency on overtime. Let’s say the train goes from Bedford - Brighton. Drive A does Brighton— East Croydon, they can’t take the train so the whole diagram is cancelled (even if the relief to East Croydon was available) It think it that complexity while they are hit so hard.

But it is less then 50% service running. It could be cosy.

Of course this looks as though GTR are heavily dependent on overtime which certainly isn't the case across all depots but of course we know planning has been cut to the bone along with limited time to match known resources to particularly service groups only option is to cull services across the board.

Tories are supposed to be the ones who get business but can't work out that a small increase in operating costs from a pay rise would be more than likely be neutralised by increased revenue. I also don't see ASLEF being overly greedy here and a half sensible offer would probably have got an agreement over the line but this govt are becoming dogmatic even intransigent now with Harper and even Merriman, disappointingly, just fuelling the divide.

 

[footprints]

This is a misleading and ridiculously loaded way of describing the situation.

Not working on the days one is not contractually required to work is hardly refusing to work, unless you also think Monday to Friday office workers refuse to work Saturdays or Sundays.

So that's a yes, then?

In which case, this week's rest day working and overtime ban is unlikely to have any impact on Avanti.

 

[43066]

So that's a yes, then?

In which case, this week's rest day working and overtime ban is unlikely to have any impact on Avanti.

No, it’s an absolutely nonsensical suggestion.

You haven’t addressed my point. Are you saying you refuse to work every day you’re not required to be at work?

In which case, this week's rest day working and overtime ban is unlikely to have any impact on Avanti.

It will only be an issue if they haven’t employed enough staff to cover the work without overtime. We will soon find out…

 

[Starmill]

So that's a yes, then?

In which case, this week's rest day working and overtime ban is unlikely to have any impact on Avanti.

It's correct to say that a rest day working agreement isn't currently in place. However, it wouldn't be correct to go beyond that though and associate this with the industrial action short of a strike on overtime.

For example, some train drivers will agree to changes to their duty, such as staying on beyond their shift times as paid overtime in order to assist with service recovery, or a number of other similar instances. This is likely to be withdrawn under industrial action short of a strike, but there's not usually a need to set a rest day working agreement for drivers to volunteer this extra service. The picture with regards to Sundays may also be different during the industrial action, although I can't remember what the conditions on committed Sundays are with drivers at Northern. Likely they aren't the same across the company too.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 May 2023 ==

Tories are supposed to be the ones who get business

Tbh their record on business support during covid and other economic shocks has been woeful, so it's not only this respect they're basically useless. The idea of the Conservatives as a genuinely pro-British Business force is something that seems to have died with the coming of David Cameron. But anyway I digress...

 

[class 9]

On XC the impact will be minimal, Drivers haven't had a RDW agreement for over a year and a half.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 May 2023 ==

Tories are supposed to be the ones who get business but can't work out that a small increase in operating costs from a pay rise would be more than likely be neutralised by increased revenue. I also don't see ASLEF being overly greedy here and a half sensible offer would probably have got an agreement over the line but this govt are becoming dogmatic even intransigent now with Harper and even Merriman, disappointingly, just fuelling the divide.

The pay offer alone, would probably would have been accepted a year ago, its all the proposals to changes to T&Cs that is the sticking point.
Most of the proposals don't go into any detail at all, so it's no surprise they've bee kicked into touch.

 

[Russel]

How are LNWR / WMT going to be effected by this?

 

[Msq71423]

Let's not forget TPE, how long have their drivers been on an overtime ban?

 

[dk1]

GA have 34 cancellations announced this morning with a full list of those pre-cancelled on a daily basis next week on their website.

 

[irish_rail]

This, 100%.

I may have some strong opinions about other areas of this dispute, but I will defend this until the cows come home.

It sits in the same category of “salary race to the the bottom” nursed get less money than train drivers for me.

People expecting to use trains on their days off, by forcing others to work….their days off.

I’m confident that a significant majority of people with any input or professional interest in this dispute would prefer Sundays were properly and fairly made part of the working week with the same rights and protections as other working days. Not enforced overtime. Unfortunately, it seems the government don’t share this opinion…

Agreed. Enforced overtime is an absolute disgrace , which is what Sundays are if not in the working week. Aslef have said again and again they WANT Sundays inside the working week, so there can be a resilient service , but the gov are only interested in forcing staff to work 6 days a week instead. Unsurprisingly, most of us don't want to do that, and I'd say in most industries, 6 day working week wouldn't be welcomed with open arms!

 

[ar10642]

This is a misleading and ridiculously loaded way of describing the situation.

Not working on the days one is not contractually required to work is hardly refusing to work, unless you also think Monday to Friday office workers refuse to work Saturdays or Sundays.

Whilst this is true and correct, why are people usually doing it if they have such a problem with it?

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

On the first Piccadilly to Euston this morning.(0755) . helpfully a 9 car and quelle suprise it's rammed ( and tbf declassified)
Wouldn't an 11 car have been more appropriate!!

 

[ctrh136]

Of course this looks as though GTR are heavily dependent on overtime which certainly isn't the case across all depots but of course we know planning has been cut to the bone along with limited time to match known resources to particularly service groups only option is to cull services across the board.

Tories are supposed to be the ones who get business but can't work out that a small increase in operating costs from a pay rise would be more than likely be neutralised by increased revenue. I also don't see ASLEF being overly greedy here and a half sensible offer would probably have got an agreement over the line but this govt are becoming dogmatic even intransigent now with Harper and even Merriman, disappointingly, just fuelling the divide.

I think GTR are short of drivers full stop as they even get cancellations due to train crew shortages when overtime is allowed, especially during school holidays.

 

[43066]

Whilst this is true and correct, why are people usually doing it if they have such a problem with it?

Who said anyone has a problem with it? People do overtime if it suits them. Some do a lot, some do none at all - just like many other industries. There is no obligation to any, just as there’s no obligation on the TOC to give people overtime.

Suggesting that by working their booked hours people are “refusing” to work on their days off, is a frankly ridiculous suggestion, made by a poster who very clearly has a dislike of unions and traincrew. God forbid traincrew might want to do the same as the rest of the population and spend their days off with friends and family rather than spending every spare second working. As if working two out of every three weekends isn’t enough to begin with.

 

[Failed Unit]

Of course this looks as though GTR are heavily dependent on overtime which certainly isn't the case across all depots but of course we know planning has been cut to the bone along with limited time to match known resources to particularly service groups only option is to cull services across the board.

Tories are supposed to be the ones who get business but can't work out that a small increase in operating costs from a pay rise would be more than likely be neutralised by increased revenue. I also don't see ASLEF being overly greedy here and a half sensible offer would probably have got an agreement over the line but this govt are becoming dogmatic even intransigent now with Harper and even Merriman, disappointingly, just fuelling the divide.

Just looked at the timetable for next Saturday. Some stations not served for most of the day. For example at Welwyn Garden City just the locals to Moorgate running. Heading north you are on a bus. (Could they extend the 717s to Stevenage to keep Welwyn North and Knebworth open?)

Keeping it relevant to your response as many of us who travel on GTR know Saturday is always unpredictable with sporadic cancellations resulting in long gaps in the service. So if this works it will likely probably be better for the passengers the say a Summer Saturday when driver availability is low because of holidays etc.

Hopefully when the planners have more time they can produce something better. But Aslef will have made there point by the anyway.

From a users point I just wish the company and union could talk without interference. Worth a letter from me to Michael Green. But his response will be blame the unions i am wonderful.

 

[Silver Cobra]

Just looked at the timetable for next Saturday. Some stations not served for most of the day. For example at Welwyn Garden City just the locals to Moorgate running. Heading north you are on a bus. (Could they extend the 717s to Stevenage to keep Welwyn North and Knebworth open?)

That seems to contradict the Industrial Action page on the Thameslink website, which says that there will be an hourly service from Kings Cross to Royston that will call at Welwyn North and Knebworth next Saturday (20th May).

Thameslink - Industrial action

www.thameslinkrailway.com

London Kings Cross and Royston

One train per hour between London Kings Cross and Royston Calling at Stevenage and Royston.

One train per hour between London Kings Cross to Royston Calling at Finsbury Park, Stevenage, Hitchin, Letchworth, Baldock, Ashwell & Morden, Royston.

One train per hour between London Kings Cross and Royston calling at Finsbury Park, Potters Bar, Hatfield, Welwyn Garden City, Welwyn North, Knebworth, Stevenage, Hitchin, Letchworth Garden City, Baldock, Ashwell & Morden and Royston.

 

[XAM2175]

On the first Piccadilly to Euston this morning.(0755) . helpfully a 9 car and quelle suprise it's rammed ( and tbf declassified)
Wouldn't an 11 car have been more appropriate!!

There's an RMT strike on today as well as the ASLEF overtime ban, mind.

 

[ar10642]

Who said anyone has a problem with it? People do overtime if it suits them. Some do a lot, some do none at all - just like many other industries. There is no obligation to any, just as there’s no obligation on the TOC to give people overtime.

Suggesting that by working their booked hours people are “refusing” to work on their days off, is a frankly ridiculous suggestion, made by a poster who very clearly has a dislike of unions and traincrew. God forbid traincrew might want to do the same as the rest of the population and spend their days off with friends and family rather than spending every spare second working. As if working two out of every three weekends isn’t enough to begin with.

I haven't said they are "refusing" but this issue only seems to be a problem for people when it's convenient for it to be. If people really don't want to do this overtime and force the company to hire enough people to not need it then why do it ever?