ASLEF Ballot Results

[Lampshade]

Whoa, fairly conclusive results.

 

[Bungle73]

I don't doubt that there is a legitimate grievance at play here but is what we really want to be doing pushing people away from the railway just as they are coming back? I can see many not returning for a second time. Surely common sense should come into this?

I personally think it'd be a good idea for ASLEF to sit on these results for a bit rather than announce strike dates straight away. It gives the new government an opportunity to negotiate in good faith, if that fails then it might be an idea to take action.

The existing government has said that there will be no policy changes, nonetheless it'd be a good idea for the unions to keep a close eye out for any attempt to change the laws around employment and industrial action.

Are we getting a new government then? I haven't heard anything about a general election.

 

[175001]

FANTASTIC RESULTS

 

[ChrisRS]

Brilliant, a similar turnout to us Network Rail folk.

Looking forward to the general public blaming signallers for this one!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I personally think it'd be a good idea for ASLEF to sit on these results for a bit rather than announce strike dates straight away. It gives the new government an opportunity to negotiate in good faith, if that fails then it might be an idea to take action.

The existing government has said that there will be no policy changes, nonetheless it'd be a good idea for the unions to keep a close eye out for any attempt to change the laws around employment and industrial action.

That will mean waiting at least two months unless the 1922 committee come up with a fast track process to select a new leader who will then have to appoint a cabinet. Mind you I believe the majority of supposedly leaders are being daft offering billions in tax cuts as that will only serve to suggest to govt workers there is plenty of money in the pot for pay rises.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Not had a pay rise since 2019 at many. During Covid it was understood but nothing this year either is unacceptable.

Fair enough, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Not had a pay rise since 2019 at many. During Covid it was understood but nothing this year either is unacceptable.

I have to say the govt have played this badly and im pretty sure had they offered 4-5% at the start of the year they would have secured a reasonable chance of deal. All they've done since RMT voted for action is antagonise the situation and just provoke the whole workforce.

 

[dk1]

Fair enough, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying

You’re welcome.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2022 ==

I have to say the govt have played this badly and im pretty sure had they offered 4-5% at the start of the year they would have secured a reasonable chance of deal. All they've done since RMT voted for action is antagonise the situation and just provoke the whole workforce.

Totally agree.

 

[westv]

Is this different or the same as the issue that I thought was resolved at Hull Trains (a strike day was called off) but which more industrial action has been called?

 

[DanBlanchflowe]

The median full time UK pay is £31,772 (Source: ons.gov. uk).
What is the median pay of a fully trained train Driver?

 

[dk1]

The median full time UK pay is £31,772 (Source: ons.gov. uk).
What is the median pay of a fully trained train Driver?

I’m not sure that’s really relevant. Where do you stop if you compare everybody’s salary in life?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

The median full time UK pay is £31,772 (Source: ons.gov. uk).
What is the median pay of a fully trained train Driver?

About £59,000 isn’t it?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I was thinking along the lines of £54,000 but don't know if that includes unsociable hours or Sundays

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Anyone who took part in the ballot should be accepting of the results. If you didn't believe in what the union was fighting for, you should have left before the ballot took place.

This isn’t right. It’s perfectly acceptable to disagree with your union‘s position, otherwise you’re effectively arguing that any ballot result of less than 100% is due to people who shouldnt be in the union!

Choosing whether to actually strike or not (once strike days are announced) is the point at which members possible have a moral question to answer about their union membership.

 

[brick60000]

This is going to be a very interesting one politically.

I’m on side with the argument that just because a driver earns (significantly) more than the average person, this does not mean they are any less deserving of their pay rise. You live within your means, else what would be the point of doing a more stressful job for more money. Drivers, therefore, will be feeling the pinch as much as everybody else. Their money may be spent (& perhaps in some cases tied into different ways of spending e.g. bigger mortgage, cars, etc) in different ways, but they are entitled to spend however they wish with their salary.

However - it is going to be very interesting to see how this plays out politically. There is zero question that politicians and the mainstream media will argue drivers are overpaid. And that alone will lose a lot of public support…Which may reduce leverage in the long run if the government forces changes through by brute force. That, in a sense, is how an own goal may be achieved through strike action. But doesn’t detract from peoples right to strike.

An interesting few months ahead… I hope that everyone gets what they need out of this dispute, and that an amicable solution can be found.

 

[Thermal]

Given the Government's current state, I can't see there being any political motive to enter discussions, even with strike action, until a new leader is in place.

All of the Tory candidates are currently trying to appeal to their members, many of which would lean towards a strong anti union / anti pay rise position. However once a new leader is in post, their focus moves to the wider UK voting base with many proposing tax cuts to stimulate economic growth. Transport is one of the key leading drivers of GDP growth an waiting for this transition before taking action may be the smart play for ASLEF here.

 

[DanBlanchflowe]

I’m not sure that’s really relevant. Where do you stop if you compare everybody’s salary in life?

It is relevant when the average household income is reducing & we are getting poorer with inflation at 9%.
The last ONS data (for 2021) said it was £28,028 and reducing.
This is only 52% of the £54,000 Train driver pay fiqure quoted above.
My question: Is it morally right for ASLEF to ask for anything more than a nominal rise when they are so well paid?

 

[Annetts key]

Are we getting a new government then? I haven't heard anything about a general election.

Yes. Don’t need a general election for a new government. The PM recommends all new ministerial appointments. So when you get a new PM, you get a new government. It is possible that some current and recent past ministers will get posts.

 

[Efini92]

It is relevant when the average household income is reducing & we are getting poorer with inflation at 9%.
The last ONS data (for 2021) said it was £28,028 and reducing.
This is only 52% of the £54,000 Train driver pay fiqure quoted above.
My question: Is it morally right for ASLEF to ask for anything more than a nominal rise when they are so well paid?

Every household income is reducing as inflation rises.

 

[Thumper1127]

Has there been an SWR ballot?

 

[dk1]

It is relevant when the average household income is reducing & we are getting poorer with inflation at 9%.
The last ONS data (for 2021) said it was £28,028 and reducing.
This is only 52% of the £54,000 Train driver pay fiqure quoted above.
My question: Is it morally right for ASLEF to ask for anything more than a nominal rise when they are so well paid?

Of course it is morally right. Everyone is poorer because of the economic situation regardless of what they earn. Outgoings have gone up in almost every sector of life.

 

[mandub]

Voted yes but I'd be happy for Aslef to hold fire for a month or two as suggested earlier up the thread.
It's a very high vote and Aslef could say they thank the members and hopefully all parties can see how clearly drivers support the call for a pay award and that this is not some union led crusade.

And that Aslef look forward to more talks at a national level & at each TOC level and will decide on steps after those talks. That Aslef hope and expect the TOC's will now make an offer, any offer, so it can be discussed by the union and put to the members for a vote - as has happened at ScotRail......

Puts it back in the Govt hands to do something

 

[Stigy]

I don’t understand the mentality of some of the general public. We earn a good salary, of course, but saying because of this we shouldn’t be struggling is quite bizarre. I mean, who on £60k a year has financial commitments which are just equal to the national average salary? It’s all relative and why should any worker have to effectively take a 10% pay cut due to cost of living?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I don’t understand the mentality of some of the general public. We earn a good salary, of course, but saying because of this we shouldn’t be struggling is quite bizarre. I mean, who on £60k a year has financial commitments which are just equal to the national average salary? It’s all relative and why should any worker have to effectively take a 10% pay cut due to cost of living?

When you work in a publicly subsidised industry yet can’t understand why the general public, majority of whom are taxpayers and do not have the luxury of fully unionised employment, yet are faced with the cost of living crisis same as everyone else, are not 100% behind the ASLEF industrial action... smh.

 

[Stigy]

When you work in a publicly subsidised industry yet can’t understand why the general public, majority of whom are taxpayers and do not have the luxury of fully unionised employment, yet are faced with the cost of living crisis same as everyone else, are not 100% behind the ASLEF industrial action... smh.

Nope, still seems bizarre.

 

[Whistler40145]

Yet more misery for the public and held to ransom

 

[rd749249]

If you haven’t had a pay rise in 3 years, you’re more than overdue one.

The public misconceptions of salary levels vis-à-vis skill/competence needs more clarity through ASLEF. They have more work to do here. I’ve got into conversations on trains with Joe Public before and trying to convince them that the salary is what it is because of the what we do when the **** hits the fan is pretty futile.

I’d agree that keeping your powder dry for the time being is a pretty good strategy, but not for too long. It needs to be front/centre of the new PMs mind, so doing it now would be wasteful IMO.

I would implore ASLEF to spend the coming days hitting the airwaves not only in support of drivers, but to really educate the public on what we do and why they think we are worth what we are paid (and more in the case of these TOCs).

 

[Whistler40145]

The median full time UK pay is £31,772 (Source: ons.gov. uk).
What is the median pay of a fully trained train Driver?

Should try working in the Charity sector and get at least half of that salary and if lucky a 1% pay rise

 

[Efini92]

Should try working in the Charity sector and get at least half of that salary and if lucky a 1% pay rise

How much did your directors get?

 

[DanBlanchflowe]

I don’t understand the mentality of some of the general public. We earn a good salary, of course, but saying because of this we shouldn’t be struggling is quite bizarre. I mean, who on £60k a year has financial commitments which are just equal to the national average salary? It’s all relative and why should any worker have to effectively take a 10% pay cut due to cost of living?

The train drivers should effectively take a 10% pay cut to allow other poorer paid workers providing a public service to catch up. A fairer deal for all in public sector.
Why does my wife's NHS pay slip say only £25,655 pa for being a Registered COVID Vaccination nurse?