Arriva Trains Wales Fare Dodging Prosecution

[Puffing Devil]

Although by no means an expert on the legal system, I have done jury service twice in a criminal court and once in a magistrates court.

And how, exactly, did you end up on a jury in the Magistrate's court?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

And how, exactly, did you end up on a jury in the Magistrate's court?

My bad, it was a crown court - so 3 times in a "crown/criminal court"

 

[Llanigraham]

Just to add to the above good advice: Be humble, polite, speak only when spoken to, look the usher/court clerk/magistrate in the eye (without staring) and do not argue. Have a shave and brush your hair.

Although by no means an expert on the legal system, I have done jury service twice in a criminal court and once in a magistrates court.

There are no juries at a Magistrates Court!

 

[Haywain]

Although by no means an expert on the legal system, I have done jury service twice in a criminal court and once in a magistrates court.

Jury service in a magistrates court? That's an interesting concept.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Jury service in a magistrates court? That's an interesting concept.

Blimey, that's a bit slow of you considering I corrected myself an hour ago... thought I was asleep

 

[Clip]

No, he's off to court:



It doesn't appear that there ever was an offer to settle.

Well as much as he is off to court this sentence from the OP stands out as a settlement offer

I have received my court date for next Friday, they have requested £8 ticket fees and £140 in court costs, can anyone clarify for me how much I will end up paying in Magistrates?

now im no lawyer but if the op offered to pay this then im guessing they wouldnt go to court

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Well as much as he is off to court this sentence from the OP stands out as a settlement offer




now im no lawyer but if the op offered to pay this then im guessing they wouldnt go to court

In my limited experience of such cases, they are indicating what costs and compensation they will request to be awarded by the Court if the defendant is found or pleads guilty.

 

[falcon]

Well as much as he is off to court this sentence from the OP stands out as a settlement offer




now im no lawyer but if the op offered to pay this then im guessing they wouldnt go to court

The OP hs got something wrong somewhere.There are no court costs until a court case has happened!

 

[Haywain]

The OP hs got something wrong somewhere.There are no court costs until a court case has happened!

Just too much use of the word court, as it is likely the TOC are requesting £140 in (their own) costs.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Well as much as he is off to court this sentence from the OP stands out as a settlement offer now im no lawyer but if the op offered to pay this then im guessing they wouldnt go to court

Not in this case. The figures came with a summons. He's off to court, though that does not prevent continued negotiation. ATW do appear to be taking a hard line; perhaps they feel it's example time.

The OP hs got something wrong somewhere.There are no court costs until a court case has happened!

Just too much use of the word court, as it is likely the TOC are requesting £140 in (their own) costs.

In my limited experience of such cases, they are indicating what costs and compensation they will request to be awarded by the Court if the defendant is found or pleads guilty.

ForTheLoveOf has it - ATW will be requesting prosecution costs of £140 on the day. There could be a whole other debate about the size and the legitimacy of the costs, though for this case it's best not to muddy the waters.

 

[Clip]

Apologies I missed the bit about going to court as it was the figures quoted which stood out to me more not the rest of the post

 

[Reedyy99]

Apologies for the confusion everyone, in the term court costs I mean their admin fees or however they mean to name the costs in relation to prosecuting me so far essentially.

 

[Reedyy99]

Appearing in Court (Unrepresented)

Dress – shirt, tie, trousers and shoes is a level above many of the other customers and shows that you are taking the appearance seriously. An usher will take your name as you enter and will show you where to go and wait. There may be lots of waiting. If you do decide to try to settle on the day arrive around 9am, check in and ask if you can speak to the prosecutor in your case. This is your last chance and can stop it going into court.

Normally you wait outside the courtroom until your case is called on: your name will be announced by the usher and you will be shown into the court. You will be expected to stand as your name and address is confirmed and the charges read out. At this stage you will be asked your plea, and assuming it’s guilty, you’ll be asked to sit. (There is nothing to prevent you from asking to wait at the back of the court, if the public gallery is on the same level and not a proper "gallery" - it's usually a couple of rows of chairs at the back. Sitting here will give you an idea of the court procedure)

The prosecution will then outline the facts of the case as they have them. You will then be asked if you have anything to say – this is where you have your opportunity to put forward your mitigation. It is best to keep it short and simple: explain this is a one off, your infrequent use of the train and your remorse at finding yourself in this situation.

You will be asked to sit while the Magistrates decide on an appropriate sentence – this will not take very long. You will be asked to stand again and the sentence will be announced. If it is a fine, you’ll be reminded that it is due today and asked if you can pay today.

There is a good University of Derby Video on YouTube which shows the roles in the court, also the layout of the court. It is concerned with a trial, but does show you who the characters are and where they are normally positioned. If you're unrepresented you'll be seated to the side of the court, normally outside of the dock in cases like this: local procedure depends heavily on the age and layout of the court you attend.

Final piece of advice: Turn your phone off as soon as you enter the court building!

Edit to fix a couple of missing letters - probably many more still not in there!

Thanks alot for all this info, very in-depth and will help on the day!

For anyone to answer, will it be seen as bad/disrespectful in my favour if I have a sheet of paper to read from when I am addressing the magistrates? I understand you said I will have the opportunity to put forward my mitigation but I am not trying to plea about the actual incident as I understand what I have done and that the punishment should fit that, however I am pleaing for mercy and to allow me to make right on my mistake while not damaging my future

 

[Puffing Devil]

Thanks alot for all this info, very in-depth and will help on the day!

For anyone to answer, will it be seen as bad/disrespectful in my favour if I have a sheet of paper to read from when I am addressing the magistrates? I understand you said I will have the opportunity to put forward my mitigation but I am not trying to plea about the actual incident as I understand what I have done and that the punishment should fit that, however I am pleaing for mercy and to allow me to make right on my mistake while not damaging my future

I'd hate to shatter any illusions, but one of the magistrates will probably be calculating your fine when you stand to speak. Unless you have something super-compelling to add, the best thing to do is keep it short and to the point: You're sorry, it was out of character, caught up in the moment, extremely ashamed to be here.

 

[najaB]

and to allow me to make right on my mistake while not damaging my future

I just hope you didn't miss my post on Friday: Arriva Fair Dodging Prosecution

 

[Reedyy99]

I just hope you didn't miss my post on Friday: Arriva Fair Dodging Prosecution

Yes I saw this post, and I was aware that it will not completely block me from my career aspirations but at the same time it puts me a foot behind any other normal person from the start, which is what I am trying to say, it sucks basically.

 

[Reedyy99]

I'd hate to shatter any illusions, but one of the magistrates will probably be calculating your fine when you stand to speak. Unless you have something super-compelling to add, the best thing to do is keep it short and to the point: You're sorry, it was out of character, caught up in the moment, extremely ashamed to be here.

Ok that makes sense in honesty, I will try to keep it short and sweet but still hopefully impacting.

 

[6Gman]

Thanks alot for all this info, very in-depth and will help on the day!

For anyone to answer, will it be seen as bad/disrespectful in my favour if I have a sheet of paper to read from when I am addressing the magistrates? I understand you said I will have the opportunity to put forward my mitigation but I am not trying to plea about the actual incident as I understand what I have done and that the punishment should fit that, however I am pleaing for mercy and to allow me to make right on my mistake while not damaging my future

I very much doubt speaking from notes will make any difference.

What I don't quite understand is what you aim to achieve. Presumably you will plead guilty, which will lead to a conviction. Which is what (might) affect your career prospects. The magistrates cannot reverse your plea of guilty*. All they can do - I assume - is fine you a bit less. Which won't affect the career impact.

* Presumably they have the power to impose a conditional discharge or similar, but would that still count as a conviction?

(I am not a legal bod, so I may be wrong, but the above is my understanding.)

 

[Reedyy99]

I very much doubt speaking from notes will make any difference.

What I don't quite understand is what you aim to achieve. Presumably you will plead guilty, which will lead to a conviction. Which is what (might) affect your career prospects. The magistrates cannot reverse your plea of guilty*. All they can do - I assume - is fine you a bit less. Which won't affect the career impact.

* Presumably they have the power to impose a conditional discharge or similar, but would that still count as a conviction?

(I am not a legal bod, so I may be wrong, but the above is my understanding.)

My older brother is a police officer, and as he understands the outcome could be where a caution is given? Not quite sure on it but either way my aim is to receive the lowest amount of punishment possible this far in, got to have a little hope at this stage honestly.

 

[furlong]

If the police were dealing with this, then yes, a caution might be offered. But this is a private prosecution and that option is not available.

 

[farleigh]

Hey Reedy - there has been some good advice given on here and it seems like you have adopted a good approach. I hope you have success in talking to the prosecution and reaching a settlement. If not, take heart from the posts that indicate this will not be a career ender.

Fingers crossed for you.

 

[fergusjbend]

Just one tip. If you are asked a question by the prosecutor or your solicitor (if applicable), address your answer to the magistrates, not to the solicitor. Magistrates are addressed as 'Your Worship(s)' or 'Sir', but don't lay it on too thick! Good luck.

 

[6Gman]

Just one tip. If you are asked a question by the prosecutor or your solicitor (if applicable), address your answer to the magistrates, not to the solicitor. Magistrates are addressed as 'Your Worship(s)' or 'Sir', but don't lay it on too thick! Good luck.

I think it's "your honour" rather than "your worship" and a lot of magistrates are female these days, so "madam" may be as appropriate as "sir". One other point, you're expected to stand to address the bench.

 

[island]

fergusjbend was correct. Magistrates in court are properly addressed as "your worships", or the appropriate of "sir" or "madam". "Your honour" would be a circuit judge.

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/you-and-the-judiciary/what-do-i-call-judge/

 

[fergusjbend]

I think it's "your honour" rather than "your worship" and a lot of magistrates are female these days, so "madam" may be as appropriate as "sir". One other point, you're expected to stand to address the bench.

'Your Honour' is the form of address for a circuit judge in the Crown Court, unless he or she is sitting in the Central Criminal Court (The Old Bailey), in which case it is 'My Lord / Lady'. This is also the correct form of address for High Court Judges.

 

[6Gman]

fergusjbend was correct. Magistrates in court are properly addressed as "your worships", or the appropriate of "sir" or "madam". "Your honour" would be a circuit judge.

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/you-and-the-judiciary/what-do-i-call-judge/

That's odd, because my source was also a court information leaflet! Oh well, just call them Sir or Madam as appropriate.

 

[farleigh]

Good luck Reedy

 

[Reedyy99]

Thanks for the good luck everyone, I will let you know what happens on Friday morning with the prosecution and if not good news then i'll let you know after the case is heard.

 

[AlterEgo]

It would not be blocked. As long as you are completely honest I'm confident that a minor railway ticketing offence wouldn't stop you entering the Army.

It may impact the ability to commission as an officer, as he says, and obtain a Security Clearance. Some officer roles require Developed Vetting.

The Army takes integrity very seriously, particularly so for officers, whose principal job is to uphold the Queen's Regulations and military law. That said, the offence is very minor, and while it should be disclosed, be prepared that a discussion about the offence may take place at a commissioning board.

 

[najaB]

That said, the offence is very minor, and while it should be disclosed, be prepared that a discussion about the offence may take place at a commissioning board.

Oh, disclosing it is paramount. I would be surprised in the extreme if a single railway ticketing offence prevented aa otherwise suitable candidate from being accepted.