Arriva Trains Wales Fare Dodging Prosecution

[6Gman]

Oh, disclosing it is paramount. I would be surprised in the extreme if a single railway ticketing offence prevented aa otherwise suitable candidate from being accepted.

I was once subject to Special Branch screening for a particular role. I ticked the "yes" box on one of the questions (i.e. there was something in my background which could have an adverse impact on my suitability) and explained why. I got the clearance no problem, but it was made clear that if I'd ticked the "no" box and they'd then have found out about it I'd have been in serious doo-doo.

 

[AlterEgo]

Oh, disclosing it is paramount. I would be surprised in the extreme if a single railway ticketing offence prevented aa otherwise suitable candidate from being accepted.

It would not bar entry but commissioning is very competitive and the vast majority of applicants do not have any criminal history, no matter how minor.

It will be significant disadvantage if applying for certain regiments, such as the Signals or Intelligence Corps, which require vetting well above ordinary “Security Clearance”.

 

[Reedyy99]

Hi everyone,

It comes with a great smile that I attended court today and the judge conditionally discharged it, with a total fee of £128 (less than it would've been in an out-of-court settlement).

I'll provide more information for those who find themselves in my situation later when I return to university, but for now I am massively thankful to all the advice and kind words everyone has given me throughout this incident!!

 

[70014IronDuke]

Congratulations, Mr Reedyy. I must admit, from your attitude on here, I found more sympathy for you than most. Best wishes for your career efforts as well.

 

[farleigh]

Very pleased for you

 

[Blinkbonny]

Thanks for the update. Been following with interest.

 

[Reedyy99]

Full Update:

With the advice of the forum and my university solicitor I met with the prosecution at around 9.30am, where he met with me and basically gave me advice on what it's like inside of the court room, how to keep calm and stuff. When I asked if there was ANY way of solving this out of court at that point, he told me that Arriva were simply too strict on their contract with TIL to allow for basically any settlement, however he would put a word in for me to the judge/magistrates because he can see how sorry I am and that I have learnt my mistake, he also offered to be a name on my CV if I ended up with a criminal record so that employers (such as the army) would be able to contact him and he would speak in favour of me.

The gentleman I had was absolutely lovely, quite literally couldn't have done more for me. When we entered the court room I pleaded guilty to the legal clerk, and then the gentleman read out the evidence and then spoke in favour of me, the most important part being about how I was very worried how a criminal record would possibly damage my potential commissioning into the army. The judge (one male judge not 3 magistrates, lucky me?) then asked me about said commission, when it would be etc and then asked why I did it. My general reply to why was that the mitigation I had put forward was before and during the train journey, they don't warrant my actions and I can't explain why I made such a stupid mistake, it was very out of character and I usually see myself as somebody with good morals and I haven't been in trouble with the court before.

The judge then make a quick decision in which he said it was conditionally discharged (basically no criminal record but still have to pay costs + if I get into trouble in the next three years this will be brought up) as-well as reducing the admin fees from 145 to 100, with a £20 victim surcharge. He wished me luck with my future and the army and sent me on my way.

I left a message with the usher to tell the prosecution how thankful I was for all the advice. The judge, prosecution, legal clerk, usher and even security at the door were all incredibly nice and if it wasn't for what I was potentially going to receive, I would've said I have enjoyed/valued the experience.

These last 3 months have been a hard lesson learnt, and I still to this day regret my stupid action.

Again thanks everyone for the advice I have received here, if it wasn't for you i'm 99% sure I would have a criminal record today.

 

[Gareth Marston]

A bit of contrintion goes a long way then?

I suspect there a big list of the guilty who didn't engage or turn up most of whom have or will try it on again.

 

[gazthomas]

Put it down to experience and stag within the rules going forward

 

[Gareth Marston]

I'll be very disappointed if the new franchise does not implement a Penalty Fare area across SE Wales. No messing about with attempted short faring then.

One of the S and B coin and cardTVM's on the Ebbw branch had an angle grinder taken to it recently but was not broken into. Is it that hard to extend across the Valleys?

 

[6Gman]

Full Update:

With the advice of the forum and my university solicitor I met with the prosecution at around 9.30am, where he met with me and basically gave me advice on what it's like inside of the court room, how to keep calm and stuff. When I asked if there was ANY way of solving this out of court at that point, he told me that Arriva were simply too strict on their contract with TIL to allow for basically any settlement, however he would put a word in for me to the judge/magistrates because he can see how sorry I am and that I have learnt my mistake, he also offered to be a name on my CV if I ended up with a criminal record so that employers (such as the army) would be able to contact him and he would speak in favour of me.

The gentleman I had was absolutely lovely, quite literally couldn't have done more for me. When we entered the court room I pleaded guilty to the legal clerk, and then the gentleman read out the evidence and then spoke in favour of me, the most important part being about how I was very worried how a criminal record would possibly damage my potential commissioning into the army. The judge (one male judge not 3 magistrates, lucky me?) then asked me about said commission, when it would be etc and then asked why I did it. My general reply to why was that the mitigation I had put forward was before and during the train journey, they don't warrant my actions and I can't explain why I made such a stupid mistake, it was very out of character and I usually see myself as somebody with good morals and I haven't been in trouble with the court before.

The judge then make a quick decision in which he said it was conditionally discharged (basically no criminal record but still have to pay costs + if I get into trouble in the next three years this will be brought up) as-well as reducing the admin fees from 145 to 100, with a £20 victim surcharge. He wished me luck with my future and the army and sent me on my way.

I left a message with the usher to tell the prosecution how thankful I was for all the advice. The judge, prosecution, legal clerk, usher and even security at the door were all incredibly nice and if it wasn't for what I was potentially going to receive, I would've said I have enjoyed/valued the experience.

These last 3 months have been a hard lesson learnt, and I still to this day regret my stupid action.

Again thanks everyone for the advice I have received here, if it wasn't for you i'm 99% sure I would have a criminal record today.

Wow!

I have to say I think you've been a very lucky chap, but you've also discovered there are some really lovely people out there! (And I say that as one of the less sympathetic posters on here.)

It could so easily have gone so much worse for you. Well done and all the best for the future.

 

[Reedyy99]

Yes what a shame they prosecute people who travel without a valid ticket.

What would you like them to do next - taxis from station to door in the name of good customer service?

Think he's rather implying on how strict Arriva are being with the process they take when attempting to prosecute someone.

The prosecutor I had stated that he works under TIL (for many years) representing alot of the train companies and Arriva is the strictest by far.

Just an FYI to everyone, as much as I disliked TIL in this incident, it was Arriva who precisely told TIL to not allow any settlements out of court.

 

[Reedyy99]

Wow!

I have to say I think you've been a very lucky chap, but you've also discovered there are some really lovely people out there! (And I say that as one of the less sympathetic posters on here.)

It could so easily have gone so much worse for you. Well done and all the best for the future.

I feel incredibly lucky, and as-well as that grateful to all the people who have assisted me not only on the forum but on the actual day!

I will never forget how badly this could've gone if it wasn't for a kind prosecutor or judge, thanks for the kind words mate

 

[tiptoptaff]

I'm glad you've had as best possible outcome as could be hope for in your situation. Bu those bemoaning the prosecution and refusal to settle, as I've said upthread, ATW do this a lot to make examples of it, especially around times where short-faring and general evasion is more prevalent, such as during large events at the Principality Stadium, and there are a fair few coming up over the summer. Short faring as massive problem in South Wales and these large scale prosecutions seen through to the end every few months is the only way to highlight to the public the extent of the problem and that they can't get away with it!

 

[farleigh]

I'm glad you've had as best possible outcome as could be hope for in your situation. Bu those bemoaning the prosecution and refusal to settle, as I've said upthread, ATW do this a lot to make examples of it, especially around times where short-faring and general evasion is more prevalent, such as during large events at the Principality Stadium, and there are a fair few coming up over the summer. Short faring as massive problem in South Wales and these large scale prosecutions seen through to the end every few months is the only way to highlight to the public the extent of the problem and that they can't get away with it!

Doesn't seem to be working though?

 

[tiptoptaff]

Doesn't seem to be working though?

So they should just give up and stop and say "oh well, everyone is short faring, we should just let them and not prosecute" No. they shouldn't. And they won't.

 

[farleigh]

So they should just give up and stop and say "oh well, everyone is short faring, we should just let them and not prosecute" No. they shouldn't. And they won't.

I am sure you are correct. However, do you think this is the best way to deal with it?

 

[Gareth Marston]

As I said up thread SE Wales has to become a penalty fare area and short faring disappears overnight.

 

[gray1404]

It sounds too like, though not offered an out of court settlement, the OP got a better outcome because they engaged with the process. So even when they will not settle out of court, there is something to be said for engaging in the process.

Moderator note: If anyone wishes to discuss the rights or wrongs of these sorts of prosecutions, please use the thread Revenue protection - too strict?