Anyone used scheduled Merseyrail RRB's?

[trainophile]

In view of the imminent Wirral Line track renewal meaning it is rail replacement buses between Lime Street and Birkenhead Central for the next few weeks, I was wondering whether these operate as reliably as the trains do.

In particular, whether they lay on enough bus capacity to transport a potentially large number of passengers at 15 minute intervals, or is it sometimes a case of "this bus is full, you'll have to wait for the next one"?

Need to know so that I can work backwards from making a connection at Chester, and allowing extra time if there is likely to be any delay. I know traffic conditions are also unpredictable, so I would allow more time anyway, but added to an extra 15 minutes waiting for a bus, that could make things tight even if I do build in a good leeway. I also don't want to be hanging around at Chester for over an hour!

 

[Ianigsy]

When I was staying with family near Birkenhead North over Christmas I noticed that Merseytravel had sourced four bus shelters from store and installed them outside the station, which says to me that they're planning for a big operation. Presumably part of the advantage of running six car trains every 30 minutes on the New Brighton and West Kirby lines is that it gives time for the replacement buses to form up outside the station and be ready to go at 15 minute intervals.

It's also quite normal for there to be a spare bus parked up opposite the station during routine engineering work to cover for breakdowns and unexpected spikes in demand (due to a cancelled train, for example).

 

[trainophile]

Thanks Ian, that's reassuring. I'll just allow maybe an extra half hour then.

 

[AntoniC]

This is from the MerseyTravel website

Rail replacement buses
High quality ‘express’ buses, with on-bus WiFi, will run directly from Birkenhead Central and Birkenhead North to Moorfields Station and St George’s Hall (for Lime Street Station), with return buses at least every 15 minutes.

There will be additional services to ensure people can still catch early morning mainline trains.

Merseyrail tickets are valid on these buses and on the 10A bus which you can use to travel around the ‘loop’ - between James St, Moorfields, Lime St and Central.

Advice: Plan ahead and take into account extra journey times.

Special arrangements will be in place for those with disabilities with staff on hand to help. More details are available at www.merseyrail.org/trackrenewal

Bus

There are 14 existing cross-river bus services that run between Wirral/Chester and Liverpool.


These services are likely to become busier, so more or bigger buses will be put on key routes to accomodate existing and new customers.

As rail service frequency will be reduced on the New Brighton and West Kirby lines during track renewal, rail users may want to take advantage of cross river bus services during this time with the 432/433 (New Brighton-Liverpool service) running every 15 minutes and the 437 (West Kirby-Liverpool service) running every 8 minutes.

The following links take you to the route information and timetable details, check in January for the most uptodate timetable information.


​East Wirral/Chester ​West Wirral
​1 (Chester to Liverpool) ​
​2 (Chester to Liverpool) ​407 (Town Meadow to Liverpool)
​X8 (Chester to Liverpool) ​420 (West Kirby to Liverpool)
​423 (Birkenhead to Liverpool) ​471 (Heswall to Liverpool)
​432 (New Brighton to Liverpool) ​472 (Heswall or Barnston to Liverpool)
​433 (New Brighton to Liverpool) ​437 (West Kirby to Liverpool)
​464 (New Ferry to Liverpool) ​487 (Little Neston to Liverpool)

http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/travel-updates/Pages/Wirral-Loop-Line-Track-Renewal.aspx

I would suggest that they will do their best to run the RRB`s every 15 minutes but it cant be guaranteed.

 

[trainophile]

Wow, ^ that's invaluable. I didn't think to check online for detailed information like that. Many thanks.

 

[AntoniC]

Wow, ^ that's invaluable. I didn't think to check online for detailed information like that. Many thanks.

Thank you , it's a pleasure to help

 

[Shimbleshanks]

I've looked on the Merseyrail site and can't find anything about whether cycles will be carried on the rail replacement buses. I know that these aren't normally carried on RRBs but would an exception be made owing to the fact that there's a stretch of water involved and you aren't allowed to cycle through the Mersey road tunnels except during the night hours? The only alternative I can think of is the ferry, but that's hardly a satisfactory alternative these days with limited hours of operation and it's also not a direct service in one direction - plus I believe it is quite a bit pricier than the train?

Also, what are people connecting onto the Bidston-Wrexham line supposed to do? From what I can see on the site there will be RRBs to Birkenhead North only - are people then expected to get on a West Kirby service for one stop only and then change again for a Wrexham service?

 

[Polarbear]

Arriva are providing the RRBs throughout the Wirral line works, with 36 double deckers (66 reg hybrids). The plan is to operate to at least the usual frequencies, but at peak times, they will just fill up buses & dispatch them ASAP to minimise overcrowding as far as possible.

The big unknown factor, and one that I hope doesn't happen, is how many people will abandon public transport & try driving to/from Liverpool. If too many people do so, the road tunnels will grind to a halt pretty quickly, causing chaos. Only experience will tell - and I'm soooo looking forward to the next few weeks??????

As regards access to Bidston-Wrexham trains, it'll be a double change at Birkenhead North and Bidston as far as I can see.

 

[AntoniC]

I've looked on the Merseyrail site and can't find anything about whether cycles will be carried on the rail replacement buses. I know that these aren't normally carried on RRBs but would an exception be made owing to the fact that there's a stretch of water involved and you aren't allowed to cycle through the Mersey road tunnels except during the night hours? The only alternative I can think of is the ferry, but that's hardly a satisfactory alternative these days with limited hours of operation and it's also not a direct service in one direction - plus I believe it is quite a bit pricier than the train?

Also, what are people connecting onto the Bidston-Wrexham line supposed to do? From what I can see on the site there will be RRBs to Birkenhead North only - are people then expected to get on a West Kirby service for one stop only and then change again for a Wrexham service?

Bikes :

Bike Update
We have listened to our passengers and have decided to run a Bike Bus, which is a vehicle that can carry bikes and owners together. The Bike Bus will run between Birkenhead and Liverpool at key times during Wirral loop line track renewal for customers travelling with bikes.

The Bike Bus will run between Hamilton Square station in Birkenhead and Moorfields station in Liverpool. There will be services every hour from both stations from early in the morning until late at night, capacity will be limited and buses will operate on a first come first served basis. The timetable for the Bike Bus during Phase 1 can be seen below:

Birkenhead - Hamilton Square Station (Bridge Street) Liverpool - Moorfields (Exchange/Tithebarn Street)
Monday - Saturday
06:00 and then hourly 06:30 and then hourly
Last service 23:00 Last service 23:30
Sunday
08:00 and then hourly 08:30 then hourly
Last service 23:00 Last service 23:30
To plan your cycle route to and from the Bike Bus click here.

More detailed cycle information for Phase 2 and Phase 3 will be released in Janaury 2017.



Mersey Ferries
The Mersey Ferries remain the best option if you travel with a bike. Throughout the work, valid cross-river rail tickets will be accepted on all Mersey Ferries.

During the week, there will be a commuter service from 07:20 – 10:00 and 17:00 – 19:00, with ferries every 20 minutes between Seacombe and the Pier Head. At weekends and during the week between 11:00 – 16:00, cross-river journeys can be made via the River Explorer Cruise.

If ferries are suspended for any reason, alternative travel arrangements will be provided. For more information on Mersey Ferries, visit www.merseytravel.gov.uk


Secure Cycle Storage
Another option if you travel with a bike is to leave your bike in our secure cycle shelters, which are located at the majority of our stations. To make use of them, register in advance at www.merseyrail.org/cycle where a full list of stations can be found, an access fob will be sent to you free of charge.


Bike & Go
If you leave your bike at home or at your local station you can take advantage of the Bike & Go offers during Wirral Track Renewal. During the work, Bike & Go will offer half price annual subscription to customers who live in the Liverpool city region and free rentals from Moorfields station during Phase 1 and Phase 3. To register, visit www.bikeandgo.co.uk, select the Wirral promotion and use the promo code wirral17.

Half price annual subscription, costing just £5, is available from 24 November 2016 to 18 June 2017. Free rentals from Moorfields are subject to availability and on a first come first served basis, between 3 January - 12 February 2017 and 30 May - 18 June 2017. Please check live availability on www.bikeandgo.co.uk

Remember that throughout Wirral loop line track renewal, fold-up bikes can be taken on trains and rail replacement buses.

http://www.merseyrail.org/wirral-track-renewal/bikes.aspx

This is the info from Merseyrail.

I hope this is of help to you !

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Bikes :

Bike Update
We have listened to our passengers and have decided to run a Bike Bus, which is a vehicle that can carry bikes and owners together. The Bike Bus will run between Birkenhead and Liverpool at key times during Wirral loop line track renewal for customers travelling with bikes.

The Bike Bus will run between Hamilton Square station in Birkenhead and Moorfields station in Liverpool. There will be services every hour from both stations from early in the morning until late at night, capacity will be limited and buses will operate on a first come first served basis. The timetable for the Bike Bus during Phase 1 can be seen below:

Birkenhead - Hamilton Square Station (Bridge Street) Liverpool - Moorfields (Exchange/Tithebarn Street)
Monday - Saturday
06:00 and then hourly 06:30 and then hourly
Last service 23:00 Last service 23:30
Sunday
08:00 and then hourly 08:30 then hourly
Last service 23:00 Last service 23:30
To plan your cycle route to and from the Bike Bus click here.

More detailed cycle information for Phase 2 and Phase 3 will be released in Janaury 2017.



Mersey Ferries
The Mersey Ferries remain the best option if you travel with a bike. Throughout the work, valid cross-river rail tickets will be accepted on all Mersey Ferries.

During the week, there will be a commuter service from 07:20 – 10:00 and 17:00 – 19:00, with ferries every 20 minutes between Seacombe and the Pier Head. At weekends and during the week between 11:00 – 16:00, cross-river journeys can be made via the River Explorer Cruise.

If ferries are suspended for any reason, alternative travel arrangements will be provided. For more information on Mersey Ferries, visit www.merseytravel.gov.uk


Secure Cycle Storage
Another option if you travel with a bike is to leave your bike in our secure cycle shelters, which are located at the majority of our stations. To make use of them, register in advance at www.merseyrail.org/cycle where a full list of stations can be found, an access fob will be sent to you free of charge.


Bike & Go
If you leave your bike at home or at your local station you can take advantage of the Bike & Go offers during Wirral Track Renewal. During the work, Bike & Go will offer half price annual subscription to customers who live in the Liverpool city region and free rentals from Moorfields station during Phase 1 and Phase 3. To register, visit www.bikeandgo.co.uk, select the Wirral promotion and use the promo code wirral17.

Half price annual subscription, costing just £5, is available from 24 November 2016 to 18 June 2017. Free rentals from Moorfields are subject to availability and on a first come first served basis, between 3 January - 12 February 2017 and 30 May - 18 June 2017. Please check live availability on www.bikeandgo.co.uk

Remember that throughout Wirral loop line track renewal, fold-up bikes can be taken on trains and rail replacement buses.

http://www.merseyrail.org/wirral-track-renewal/bikes.aspx

This is the info from Merseyrail.

I hope this is of help to you !

Thanks - that is interesting. Sounds like my cycling excursion from Liverpool to North Wales is back on the cards, then.

(Though I'm not sure what their reasoning is in saying that the ferries remain the best option when travelling with a bike when the commuter service operates to Seacombe rather than Birkenhead and the only option for a large part of the day is the rather unsatisfactory 'River Explorer' schedule. The Bike Bus sounds quite a good service, at least on paper.)

 

[AntoniC]

Thanks - that is interesting. Sounds like my cycling excursion from Liverpool to North Wales is back on the cards, then.

(Though I'm not sure what their reasoning is in saying that the ferries remain the best option when travelling with a bike when the commuter service operates to Seacombe rather than Birkenhead and the only option for a large part of the day is the rather unsatisfactory 'River Explorer' schedule. The Bike Bus sounds quite a good service, at least on paper.)

Glad to have helped !

 

[Polarbear]

Well I hope I'm not speaking too soon, but getting to work this morning wasn't the problem I thought it may have been. The Queensway tunnel was relatively quiet and bu bus arrived on time into Liverpool.

There were notably more people on the bus this morning, so I'm wondering (hoping) that people have heeded the advice not to drive in whilst the Wirral line is being worked on?

Time will of course tell, and it's also noted that the schools haven't gone back yet, meaning there will be people who haven't yet returned to work.

 

[trainophile]

That's good news Polarbear, although I've noted the provisos re. school dates and extended holiday-takers.

I have no need to transport a bicycle, but was wondering what the situation would be regarding luggage. Buses have no overhead storage, so on a full bus even a small carry-on size case would be in the way. I wonder whether the buses they are using have under-floor luggage storage, as coaches do.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The whole system seemed very quiet today. No need for double sets really, though about half the Chester trains were 6-car.
Couldn't tell if that was people deserting the railway, or just in holiday mode.
Started well being offered free bacon rolls at Birkenhead Central...
You lose about 15 minutes compared to the through train.
The buses are running to a fixed timetable, a bit of a walk to them if the weather's bad, and little shelter.
Eastbound, having exited the tunnel they do a big loop back to Moorfields before going up to Lime St.
Westbound they head straight (well, round the houses) for the tunnel.
People with prams and scooters, and roller cases. Didn't see any bikes. Normal double deckers, with USB charging points at seats.
Takes a long time to load/unload the double deckers, especially if someone decides he's on the wrong bus and everybody has to back up to let him off.
Platform to platform (Lime St to Birkenhead Central) took 20 minutes eastbound and 15 westbound.
You get dizzy with all the loops in/out of the tunnel road system to reach the terminals.
It seems to be a rule that every route in Liverpool or Birkenhead is about as indirect as possible.
But OK for a few weeks.

 

[trainophile]

Cheers, sounds as good as we could expect then.

Who was dishing out free bacon rolls? I bet that won't happen every day!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Who was dishing out free bacon rolls? I bet that won't happen every day!

I'm not sure who it was.
A couple of girls had what looked like cinema ice cream trays and handed them out at the bus stop (bacon or sausage!).
Not sure if it was just a Day 1 thing or not.
Pity I'd not long had breakfast...
Not there on the way back...

 

[185]

Hit and miss with staff. Some awful, more interested in revenue than directing punters (no directional signs up), and seemingly disappointed when the whole train produce tickets.. Others absolutely brilliant, proactive and sending passengers to the right place, even actively wandering the platform asking.

Should mention WK and NB trains are only every 30 mins.

 

[trainophile]

Is it hard to locate the buses from Lime Street, or the trains from where the bus puts you down at Birkenhead then?

Chester trains still every 15 minutes I take it?

 

[headshot119]

I've looked on the Merseyrail site and can't find anything about whether cycles will be carried on the rail replacement buses. I know that these aren't normally carried on RRBs but would an exception be made owing to the fact that there's a stretch of water involved and you aren't allowed to cycle through the Mersey road tunnels except during the night hours? The only alternative I can think of is the ferry, but that's hardly a satisfactory alternative these days with limited hours of operation and it's also not a direct service in one direction - plus I believe it is quite a bit pricier than the train?

Also, what are people connecting onto the Bidston-Wrexham line supposed to do? From what I can see on the site there will be RRBs to Birkenhead North only - are people then expected to get on a West Kirby service for one stop only and then change again for a Wrexham service?

Bidston - Wrexham users will need to change at Birkenhead North onto a West Kirkby train, same as they do everytime the loop is shut.

Arriva are providing the RRBs throughout the Wirral line works, with 36 double deckers (66 reg hybrids). The plan is to operate to at least the usual frequencies, but at peak times, they will just fill up buses & dispatch them ASAP to minimise overcrowding as far as possible.

The big unknown factor, and one that I hope doesn't happen, is how many people will abandon public transport & try driving to/from Liverpool. If too many people do so, the road tunnels will grind to a halt pretty quickly, causing chaos. Only experience will tell - and I'm soooo looking forward to the next few weeks��

As regards access to Bidston-Wrexham trains, it'll be a double change at Birkenhead North and Bidston as far as I can see.

I'm sure no more people will abandon public transport than do every other time the loop line is shut for engineering work, I doubt either of the tunnel will grind to a halt.

Arriva are providing the RRBs throughout the Wirral line works, with 36 double deckers (66 reg hybrids). The plan is to operate to at least the usual frequencies, but at peak times, they will just fill up buses & dispatch them ASAP to minimise overcrowding as far as possible.

The big unknown factor, and one that I hope doesn't happen, is how many people will abandon public transport & try driving to/from Liverpool. If too many people do so, the road tunnels will grind to a halt pretty quickly, causing chaos. Only experience will tell - and I'm soooo looking forward to the next few weeks��

As regards access to Bidston-Wrexham trains, it'll be a double change at Birkenhead North and Bidston as far as I can see.

Is it hard to locate the buses from Lime Street, or the trains from where the bus puts you down at Birkenhead then?

Chester trains still every 15 minutes I take it?

Chester are still every 15 minutes.

The buses run from outside St Georges Hall, you can't miss the big queue of them really!

 

[185]

Brand new buses on this, although I think I nearly broke part of one as I was getting off, the Laird Street driver was laughing saying they'll bill me for it

From what I understand, the routes are:

Birkenhead North Express (for West Kirby / New Brighton)

Birkenhead Central Express (for Chester / Ellesmere Port)

All stops one. B'North-Park-Conway Pk-B'Head Central-Ham Sq-Liverpool

Photo Credit: Arriva NW / North West Bus Blog

 

[34D]

A picture of one of the bike buses. https://www.flickr.com/photos/northernsoutherner/31933668172

 

[trainophile]

Are only people with bikes allowed on those?

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Ellesmere Port passengers are, as usual, the losers in the temporary timetable. In the peak, we have to change at Hooton just to get to the RRB at Birkenhead while Chester "enjoys" a 15 min through service. And in the off peak, we have very tight 3 minute connections to get to and from Chester, with a half hour wait if we miss it. This is particularly tight in the northbound direction where the footbridge has to be crossed.

The rare bay platform 1 at Hooton will presumably be used for short workings to Ellesmere Port.

 

[SSp]

Are only people with bikes allowed on those?

No, just their bikes

 

[trainophile]

No, just their bikes

How do their bikes know where to get off?

Looks like problems earlier today, signalling problems both on the Northern Line and between Hooton and Birkenhead Central. I suppose some hiccups are to be expected with the extent of the work that's going on.

 

[Polarbear]

Well so far this week, things seem to have gone quite smoothly. The bacon/sausage butties were appreciated on day one!

No big jams at either end of the Queensway tunnel so it does seem that people are heeding the advice not to use their cars.

Yes there have been a couple of issues,but by and large things seem to have settled down well.

 

[Welshman]

How do their bikes know where to get off?

They go through the whole cycle of stops until they find one they're saddled with. :roll:

 

[parkender102]

I am travelling to the Everton v Leicester City match tomorrow and would normally take the train from Hooton or Hawarden (change at Bidston) but all the faffing about has put me off and was considering taking an alternative route. I can drive to Liverpool South Parkway in 30 minutes and park the car for free in the station car park. The train from South Parkway will take me directly to Sandhills without having to change in Liverpool City Centre - it's then a 15-20 minute walk to the ground.

Does anyone who uses this route regularly have any idea whether the car park fills up on match days (I know it's possible to park for free on the road outside the station also). Alternatively do any of the other stations further down the line have free parking as I could use one of them if needed (eg Cressington, Aigburth etc).

 

[urbophile]

I am travelling to the Everton v Leicester City match tomorrow and would normally take the train from Hooton or Hawarden (change at Bidston) but all the faffing about has put me off and was considering taking an alternative route. I can drive to Liverpool South Parkway in 30 minutes and park the car for free in the station car park. The train from South Parkway will take me directly to Sandhills without having to change in Liverpool City Centre - it's then a 15-20 minute walk to the ground.

Does anyone who uses this route regularly have any idea whether the car park fills up on match days (I know it's possible to park for free on the road outside the station also). Alternatively do any of the other stations further down the line have free parking as I could use one of them if needed (eg Cressington, Aigburth etc).

I would guess the LSP car park would not be over busy, since it is not a working day (it fills up quickly on weekday mornings), and it is probably easier to find on-street parking fairly nearby. Cressington has a tiny car park (designated on street spaces), as does Aigburth; Brunswick is slightly bigger, but I wouldn't bet on finding space in any of them.

 

[parkender102]

Cheers - I'll give South Parkway a shot I think.