Antisocial behaviour on buses: Have we given up?

[Cdd89]

Is it, though? Chucking someone off doesn't fix the problem, it pushes the problem to elsewhere.

It causes inconvenience to the miscreant, and they can use the time to think about not doing it again. Having some time to calm down and reflect, while waiting for the next bus or walking somewhere, is likely highly effective (in the view of those of us who believe in rehabilitative justice).

 

[Kaliwax]

Not just anti social behaviour on buses either, its also I feel anti social behaviour outside of the bus as well. Many times I seen photos of numerous buses damaged in Holmewood area in Bradford, putting passengers and drivers at risk.

Innocent People who live in the area will get punished because of these people, because bus companies would rightly refuse to risk their safety of the drivers and send buses down there at night.

Bus companies will suffer because buses will keep getting damaged, and bus drivers and their families will suffer because they could get hurt and injured.

There's no easy solution to this. I do think if a family causes trouble, and if they are in social housing, they should be kicked out and not allowed to claim social housing again, and the kids, should be handed to the custody of the state.

Arriva pulled out of an area permanently in Yorkshire about 20 years ago, because of this sort of behaviour.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Again, you are letting your prejudice lead you. A 16 year old strapping lad is just as able to be set upon by a group of thugs. You also don't know whether that 16 year old is able to navigate themselves home, maybe doesn't have parents who will come and pick them up.

No, they're not, they're much more in a position to defend themselves. I'm pretty big, nobody has ever gone for me. People have sense.

Either people on here are overstating risk or they live in a bizarre state of permanent fear!

Is it, though? Chucking someone off doesn't fix the problem, it pushes the problem to elsewhere.

It associates consequences directly with actions. It's very powerful. That's why I think we need to do much more of this kind of thing. For instance I would arrest anyone who steals from a shop, even if only tenpence worth, and give them a night in the cells. Release at noon the next day to make sure they have to explain why to their boss, too.

The sort of simple brain that doesn't think past the selfishness of these actions needs simple and immediate consequences. Way back when that was a clip around the ear. I don't support returning to physical violence, but I do think things that are analogous, e.g. a long walk home, are simple, effective and appropriate.

I do agree on this one, hopefully in that circumstance hopefully the teens then get the message and behave. However, what happens if the kids don't stop. Do they sit there all night? Does the bus driver want to, maybe it's their shift before clock off?

If they don't, then the bus is cancelled. Lights off, engine off, everyone off, refusal means the police are called. In my observation the success rate is near 100% - some big scary bloke always intervenes.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Still other ways to punish people without putting them in danger, especially at night. I'd rather see them do community service supervised by someone, and to work their debt off they made.

Never will work except for hardened and repeated offenders - too cumbersome. A short sharp reaction at point of miss behaviour has to work. Not time and money spent on court cases.

No one deserves to be murdered or raped because they caused anti social behaviour. Police could take them to the police station and get the parents to pick up from there

That might be simpler and more likely to happen.

Again, you are letting your prejudice lead you. A 16 year old strapping lad is just as able to be set upon by a group of thugs. You also don't know whether that 16 year old is able to navigate themselves home, maybe doesn't have parents who will come and pick them up.

Difficult and not perfect but what about the victims on the bus who did not choose to do anything wrong.

Sometimes have to learn the hard way.
When I was young I would not dare to miss behave and I was not having punishment threatened.
I do not have respect for people who think they can miss behave and get away with it by hiding behind their rights.

Nowadays we talk about rights BUT what about responsibilities ?.

Is it, though? Chucking someone off doesn't fix the problem, it pushes the problem to elsewhere.

I do not agree - it pushes the problem back on to the perpetrator there and now.
It will have unfortunate down sides until the message gets across.

I do agree on this one, hopefully in that circumstance hopefully the teens then get the message and behave. However, what happens if the kids don't stop. Do they sit there all night? Does the bus driver want to, maybe it's their shift before clock off?

I suppose wait long enough end then call for backup (police).

It will not happen very often once the perpetrators start to learn the lesson.

 

[bramling]

No, they're not, they're much more in a position to defend themselves. I'm pretty big, nobody has ever gone for me. People have sense.

One has to be careful with that. Lee Pomeroy was pretty big, and felt confident to take someone on off the back of some anti-social behaviour - and tragically it didn’t end well. It all very much depends on the situation, which can’t always be accurately sized up.

The sort of simple brain that doesn't think past the selfishness of these actions needs simple and immediate consequences. Way back when that was a clip around the ear. I don't support returning to physical violence, but I do think things that are analogous, e.g. a long walk home, are simple, effective and appropriate.

I generally agree with this. It’s the lack of consequence that is the root cause for people trying it on. The other week a couple of teenagers thought it was funny to throw a rock at a pensioner. It absolutely wasn’t so funny when they had a 100kg guy in rugby gear appear that they didn’t know was there, and who could run rather faster than they were able to attempt to run away. I shall leave that one there, apart from to say that the lesson was learned.

If they don't, then the bus is cancelled. Lights off, engine off, everyone off, refusal means the police are called. In my observation the success rate is near 100% - some big scary bloke always intervenes.

The only difficulty with the latter is it can then put the “big scary bloke” in bother, like it did with the ScotRail incident. It’s effectively holding everyone to ransom, but the problem is (1) CCTV, and (2) the prospect of someone else deciding to film it and placing it on You Tube. If one goes back to the 1990s neither of these things were likely to happen on a transport service.

 

[BuhSnarf]

No, they're not, they're much more in a position to defend themselves. I'm pretty big, nobody has ever gone for me. People have sense.

Either people on here are overstating risk or they live in a bizarre state of permanent fear!

Ah, okay, so only those who are weak and gangly are targeted. Just because no one has ever gone for you doesn't mean that's universal. There are plenty of examples of people you'd assume would be "able to handle themselves" being attacked. Also, do all "big blokes" have the skill and ability to defend themselves? I'm a big bloke but wouldn't have the foggiest about how to punch someone. In fact, only a few weeks ago I was confronted by two rather scrawny blokes and rather than puff up my chest I was in fact rescued by a middle aged woman who stood in front of me. You really can't tell how someone will react just based on their physical dimensions. You also can't base bus travel policy on whether the kid looks "hard enough" that he wouldn't get in trouble on the way home.

It associates consequences directly with actions. It's very powerful. That's why I think we need to do much more of this kind of thing. For instance I would arrest anyone who steals from a shop, even if only tenpence worth, and give them a night in the cells. Release at noon the next day to make sure they have to explain why to their boss, too.

And how do you fund this? A night in the cells for a homeless person might actually be an incentive TO steal.

The sort of simple brain that doesn't think past the selfishness of these actions needs simple and immediate consequences. Way back when that was a clip around the ear. I don't support returning to physical violence, but I do think things that are analogous, e.g. a long walk home, are simple, effective and appropriate.

And in a world where blame has to be attributed what happens if that long walk home is in the rain / cold conditions and the person wasn't dressed for such and becomes ill? Or what happens if what is decided by the driver as ASB was actually ADHD or Autism and dropping them a mile from home could be as bad as dropping them 12 miles from home as they don't have a clue to get back?

If they don't, then the bus is cancelled. Lights off, engine off, everyone off, refusal means the police are called. In my observation the success rate is near 100% - some big scary bloke always intervenes.

And how is that fair to everyone else on the bus? What if there is no big scary bloke on the bus? What about the poor bus driver who will have to stay with the bus? Are the police likely to attend a bus that has been stopped because someone was vaping on the back seat? Or will they tell the driver to suck it up and just carry on driving?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 minutes ago ==

I do not agree - it pushes the problem back on to the perpetrator there and now.

Except said youth who is angry at being chucked off the bus suddenly becomes a menace in the area they've been dropped off.