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Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, the secret sealed document and his arrest

martin butler

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I somehow don't think we will ever see Andrew Mountbatten -Windsor, doing the walk to church thing again along with the rest of the family
He and the rest of the York's will now most likely go into exile somewhere in Europe
 
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styles

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"more severe offences" - misconduct in public office carries a max sentence of life imprisonment! I get your point entirely (and agree), but important to note that the suspected offence is possibly one of THE most serious/severe there is in terms of the law.
In theory yes, but in reality nothing anywhere this severe would be handed down.
 

styles

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I suppose in good news, the next episode of 24 Hours In Police Custody should be entertaining.
 

AlterEgo

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I actually feel rather sorry for Beatrice and Eugenie in all this. I know they're adults, but their parents are dreadful. Fergie has been outed, again, as a grasper and a leech whom Epstein didn't even much like, and Andrew has been embroiled in all this sordid sex nonsense and got himself into incredible trouble because of his ego.
 

dgl

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I will say if I was interviewing him the desire to call him prince repeatedly and then correct myself would be all too tempting.
"Right now Prince, sorry you're not a Prince anymore are you?, that's Andrew mountbatton Windsor now isn't it?".
 

Gloster

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I will say if I was interviewing him the desire to call him prince repeatedly and then correct myself would be all too tempting.
"Right now Prince, sorry you're not a Prince anymore are you?, that's Andrew mountbatton Windsor now isn't it?".

They might get it wrong when they are processing him,”Your prints, Prince.”
 

JamieL

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Whilst not commenting on the specifics of the case - especially as no charges have yet been filed and Andrew is innocent until proven guilty - this whole sorry farce surely must raise questions about the future viability of the monarchy? A system that prompts exceptionalism from birth rite and exclusivity in law, but has deeply stove-piped finances embedded in the hands of one family member, is a natural fermenting ground for trouble from those not in the direct line of succession. King Charles has shown that the former assumption that the title of Prince was forever is null and void. Extending that, it also goes that all titles are transitory. As such, perhaps it is time to look at the monarchy and accept it has no place in 21st Century Britain.
 

SuspectUsual

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I actually feel rather sorry for Beatrice and Eugenie in all this. I know they're adults, but their parents are dreadful. Fergie has been outed, again, as a grasper and a leech whom Epstein didn't even much like, and Andrew has been embroiled in all this sordid sex nonsense and got himself into incredible trouble because of his ego.

To a point I agree. Yes, they didn’t pick their parents and it must be awful having such dreadful people as your mum and dad, but equally it does look like they’ve exploited their family name and connections to get the “jobs” they do
 

Cdd89

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King Charles has shown that the former assumption that the title of Prince was forever is null and void. Extending that, it also goes that all titles are transitory. As such, perhaps it is time to look at the monarchy and accept it has no place in 21st Century Britain.
It's long been accepted that the British monarchy only continues to exist with the consent of the people. The King revoking Andrew's title is more of a reflection of this fact, in my opinion, rather than something that gives rise to this conclusion - which is an important difference.

Even amid the recent scandals, the idea of a monarchy remains pretty favourable in YouGov surveys (64% in favour, 23% against), and these numbers have remained steady since at least 2012.
 

JamieL

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It's long been accepted that the British monarchy only continues to exist with the consent of the people. The King revoking Andrew's title is more of a reflection of this fact, in my opinion, rather than something that gives rise to this conclusion - which is an important difference.
Accepted by whom? Our laws don't allow the future of monarchy to be discussed in Parliament and all our MPs have to swore on oath of allegiance so the mechanisms are not there to really put this to the test. I think the revocation of the titles is a desperate self-serving act of survival.
 

The exile

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It's long been accepted that the British monarchy only continues to exist with the consent of the people. The King revoking Andrew's title is more of a reflection of this fact, in my opinion, rather than something that gives rise to this conclusion - which is an important difference.

Even amid the recent scandals, the idea of a monarchy remains pretty favourable in YouGov surveys (64% in favour, 23% against), and these numbers have remained steady over a very long time.
After all, we’re hardly seeing a wonderful advert for a democratically elected Presidency either (from across the pond!). Any change would be very complicated (would almost certainly require the drafting of a written constitution) - the experience of history suggest such changes either tend to follow a “hour zero” cataclysm or cause one. We’re not in the former position and certainly are best avoiding the latter.
 

JamieL

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After all, we’re hardly seeing a wonderful advert for a democratically elected Presidency either (from across the pond!). Any change would be very complicated (would almost certainly require the drafting of a written constitution) - the experience of history suggest such changes either tend to follow a “hour zero” cataclysm or cause one. We’re not in the former position and certainly are best avoiding the latter.
Why not just replace the monarch with a Grade B Civil Servant who could be appointed and rotated as per normal every two or three years? No changes to constitution required and they could simply adopt the position and title of "King" or "Queen" for their tenure. Of course what would change is they would be fully subject to FOI, rules on conduct, receive only their CS pay and allowances whilst the incomes from the Duchy of Lancaster would flow directly and entirely into state coffers.
 

redreni

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It's long been accepted that the British monarchy only continues to exist with the consent of the people. The King revoking Andrew's title is more of a reflection of this fact, in my opinion, rather than something that gives rise to this conclusion - which is an important difference.

Even amid the recent scandals, the idea of a monarchy remains pretty favourable in YouGov surveys (64% in favour, 23% against), and these numbers have remained steady since at least 2012.
Could the 64% in favour pay an extra tax, with the proceeds hypothecated to pay for the royals? Or would that result in support dwindling when people realise paying for these people is voluntary?
 

martin butler

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Thank goodness, that Prince William, appears to have the good sense to avoid the obvious pitfalls, that seems to have snared the spare on the last two generations, having unsavory friends, whilst it's not illegal, should have rang alarm bells in the palace offices, as image is everything if you're supposed to be a public servant,
 

redreni

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Accepted by whom? Our laws don't allow the future of monarchy to be discussed in Parliament and all our MPs have to swore on oath of allegiance so the mechanisms are not there to really put this to the test. I think the revocation of the titles is a desperate self-serving act of survival.
Not to mention that if you try to raise the matter during the process of succession, as Republic did, you get 'accidentally' wrongfully arrested and detained until after the ceremony, at which point you're released with an apology.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Accepted by whom? Our laws don't allow the future of monarchy to be discussed in Parliament and all our MPs have to swore on oath of allegiance so the mechanisms are not there to really put this to the test. I think the revocation of the titles is a desperate self-serving act of survival.
What was the legal position when the monarch was executed at the time of Cromwell?
 

ainsworth74

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What was the legal position when the monarch was executed at the time of Cromwell?
Depends on whose side you were on surely? The King and Monarchists would not have recognised the right of Parliament to have any legal authority over the King (and I believe that was part of his arguments when he was put on trial!).
 

JamieL

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What was the legal position when the monarch was executed at the time of Cromwell?
The reality that we had fought two of three Civil Wars with a death toll higher, relative to population, of that of the First World War. Hopefully we would never need to go through that again.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Moving back to the Andrew case, it might be premature to talk about charges at this time. The Guardian is reporting:

Prosecutors are yet to give advice to the Thames Valley police investigation that today led to the king’s brother being arrested for misconduct in public office. The crown prosecution service authorises criminal charges in England and Wales and a spokesperson confirmed it was yet to give advice to detectives.

This would seem to suggest charges are not imminent.

Taken from the live feed:
 

AlterEgo

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Accepted by whom? Our laws don't allow the future of monarchy to be discussed in Parliament and all our MPs have to swore on oath of allegiance so the mechanisms are not there to really put this to the test. I think the revocation of the titles is a desperate self-serving act of survival.
That's not true. The monarchy exists with the consent of Parliament and it could abolish the monarchy with a single Act. Even Republic know this. https://www.republic.org.uk/abolish_the_monarchy
 

simonw

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She was convicted of failing to control her dog at a magistrates court. However, I'm not sure this would have necessarily involved her being arrested, merely being sent a summons to appear in court.
Why did she have a dog in a magistrate's court and why didn't she control it whilst they were there ?
 

RT4038

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Whilst not commenting on the specifics of the case - especially as no charges have yet been filed and Andrew is innocent until proven guilty - this whole sorry farce surely must raise questions about the future viability of the monarchy? A system that prompts exceptionalism from birth rite and exclusivity in law, but has deeply stove-piped finances embedded in the hands of one family member, is a natural fermenting ground for trouble from those not in the direct line of succession. King Charles has shown that the former assumption that the title of Prince was forever is null and void. Extending that, it also goes that all titles are transitory. As such, perhaps it is time to look at the monarchy and accept it has no place in 21st Century Britain.
Every family has black sheep. Mine especially included. It is not unusual for a sibling or offspring to stray, and where there is lots of money [not in my family!] (hereditary or business or dare I say it - crime) this can pay for shenanigans that others can only dream of, and expensive lawyers to keep things out of the public eye. The current situation with Andrew and family will be a salutary lesson to the many others in a similar position.

However I don't see it is an excuse to turn the country upside down - I can't see what good would come of that!
 
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