And the Thameslink winner is...

[causton]

I believe this was due to customer feedback where passengers travelling back from the West End particularly late at night preferred to use Kings Cross, which given KX has better facilities and connections than Moorgate, Old St, H&I or Drayton Park is understandable.

I wonder if FCC should run a trial operation to see if it would get many customers

 

[jon0844]

Customer feedback? Who did they ask?

Essex Road may not be a good station to operate very late, or at weekends. I could probably say the same about Moorgate, although there is the relatively quick connection to Liverpool Street that could make it easier to go to than going via King's Cross.

Highbury & Islington has connections to London Overground, while Drayton Park could be closed after 10pm and weekends (much as I'd expect Essex Road to be).

That leaves Old Street, which is very busy at night on a Friday and Saturday because of Hoxton/Shoreditch - and probably most of the day on Saturday. I don't know about Sunday but I am sure that if they tried running trains until 2330-0000 on Friday and Saturday, and a limited service on Sunday, they'd get custom.

Maybe the same people who were asked at some random time (and it would have been pre-FCC - it was Wagn that first extended weeknight operation from around 8pm to 10pm) were the people asked about what they wanted in first class on East Coast!

Anyway, a late night service that skips Drayton Park after 10pm and at weekends (and possibly Essex Road) could be a possibility for a trial. If it became part of London Overground, it would no doubt run until late seven days a week.

 

[Aictos]

As a trial, the Northern City Line should be open until end of service from Monday to Friday but the main reason this isn't the case if simply due to staffing issues (I don't think for safety reasons that any of the NCL stations can open if there is no platform staff in attendance.

However, I can't see why Essex Road and Drayton Park would need to be open later as they don't have any interchange with LUL services.

Considering all the engineering works which go on at weekends, I'm surprised the DfT hasn't woken up and requested that FCC as the local operator run into Moorgate instead of Kings Cross until late on Saturdays and a limited service on Sundays.

 

[jon0844]

I am sure it's down to staffing too - even though staff aren't actually on the platforms (but are nearby, as there are offices off the platform).

 

[cslusarc]

I'd just like to point something out, Bombardier isn't a British company, they will go where they get orders - they have no loyalties.

... not much is made of the fact Bombardier is Canadian and Bombardier Transportation is based in Berlin. Yes, they operate a UK factory and are investing in the country, but it doesn't make them British.

I'm Canadian and spent 10 months in the UK studying at Glasgow Caledonian University as a Student Exchange Student in 1998-99. In the time I was in Scotland, I never felt like a foreigner. I got to vote in the Scottish Election. And from what I read, Canadian are not "foreign aliens" in the UK but are treated like they are just from a different British country because we hold Commonweath Citizenship. Similarly, I'd expect that Canadian businesses are treated as not being foreign.

 

[Aictos]

Hertford East during the weekday has their last service just after midnight going back to London which only stops at Broxbourne, I've never used this service so don't know if it's a set down only service.

The last service from Hertford North to London which calls everywhere is 2340, the last train should be 0012 but a fast one stopping only at Cuffley, Gordon Hill, Enfield Chase, Palmers Green, Alexandra Palace then Finsbury Park and Kings Cross, this would use a train which leaves ECS to Hornsey anyway.

I do believe though that if a trial to extend the opening hours of the NCL is attempted then it would be popular with users.

 

[j0hn0]

I'm Canadian and spent 10 months in the UK studying at Glasgow Caledonian University as a Student Exchange Student in 1998-99. In the time I was in Scotland, I never felt like a foreigner. I got to vote in the Scottish Election. And from what I read, Canadian are not "foreign aliens" in the UK but are treated like they are just from a different British country because we hold Commonweath Citizenship. Similarly, I'd expect that Canadian businesses are treated as not being foreign.

Then you expect wrong my friend.

Ask them where they pay their taxes and where their European base is. Siemens provide just as many jobs in the UK as Bombardier, although, with their various divisions, I would go as far to say that they actually employ MORE people than Bombardier, directly and indirectly.

But I can't be arsed to work it all out for you

 

[Skimble19]

Commonwealth Citizenship? That means diddly squat to anyone these days except for the Commonwealth Games (and a lot of people couldn't care less about that either!) and a few other things dating back to the days of the Monarchy rein..

 

[Minstral25]

"More people in less space"? How did you figure that out r.e. 378s

I was talking about the style of the 378's where accountants on the railways have more standing room to squeeze more people in so "technically" more people are carried. OK for short bursts but not on the long distance trains

I wasn't referring to the previous units which if they had an additional car and air conditioning added (not possible obviously) they would have been far more suitable than the new 378's - but that's just my view

 

[WestCoast]

I'm Canadian and spent 10 months in the UK studying at Glasgow Caledonian University as a Student Exchange Student in 1998-99. In the time I was in Scotland, I never felt like a foreigner. I got to vote in the Scottish Election. And from what I read, Canadian are not "foreign aliens" in the UK but are treated like they are just from a different British country because we hold Commonweath Citizenship. Similarly, I'd expect that Canadian businesses are treated as not being foreign.

You have to read my post in context. I am not bothered that Bombardier is a Canadian company, that is irrelevant. It's a criticism of the British media, not Bombardier.

It's just that the media constantly referred to them as a "Derby-based firm", which they are not. They simply operate a factory there. They were making out Siemens to be the bad guys, becuase they are German, and therefore "foreign" in the media's eyes. Siemens will create jobs in the UK.

With respect, of course, Commonwealth Citizenship means very little these days, it meant so much more in the past. The European Union means a lot more to the UK nowadays, and EU businesses have more rights in the UK than Canadian businesses. Bombardier Transportation are based in Germany, so that is a workaround for them.

Canadian citizens are not given the same rights as EU Citizens, who can live anywhere and work in any location within the EU. That is the nature of the agreement signed.

I am sure you were welcomed warmly in Scotland, and that is great. You still have the legal status of a Canadian Citizen, and therefore a "foreigner". That is a legal status, nothing else.

 

[thefab444]

I didn't know that; I thought the only "demonstrator" stock (post privatisation) were the Porterbrook 170s - shows what I know

http://www.ukrailpics.com/railpics/2003/November 8th - Southampton Area/photos/photo_1.html

A photo of one of the demonstrator coaches, which later became a Class 360/2.

 

[A0]

Customer feedback? Who did they ask?

Essex Road may not be a good station to operate very late, or at weekends. I could probably say the same about Moorgate, although there is the relatively quick connection to Liverpool Street that could make it easier to go to than going via King's Cross.

Highbury & Islington has connections to London Overground, while Drayton Park could be closed after 10pm and weekends (much as I'd expect Essex Road to be).

That leaves Old Street, which is very busy at night on a Friday and Saturday because of Hoxton/Shoreditch - and probably most of the day on Saturday. I don't know about Sunday but I am sure that if they tried running trains until 2330-0000 on Friday and Saturday, and a limited service on Sunday, they'd get custom.

Maybe the same people who were asked at some random time (and it would have been pre-FCC - it was Wagn that first extended weeknight operation from around 8pm to 10pm) were the people asked about what they wanted in first class on East Coast!

Anyway, a late night service that skips Drayton Park after 10pm and at weekends (and possibly Essex Road) could be a possibility for a trial. If it became part of London Overground, it would no doubt run until late seven days a week.

You can't 'run through' Drayton Park, owing to a small matter of changing from AC to DC (or vice versa).

Given the simplicity of connections from the stations on the NCL to either KX or FP, I can't see why this is a problem.

Moorgate - you can get to KX using Met/Circle or Northern.
Old St - you can get to KX using Northern
H&I - Victoria line to either KX or FP.

Given the choice between being at KX after midnight or one of the NCL stations, I know which I'd choose. And it's not one of the NCLs.......

 

[jon0844]

Duh, yes I stupidly forgot the AC/DC changeover!!

Sent from my Sony Ericsson Xperia arc via Tapatalk.

 

[A0]

Duh, yes I stupidly forgot the AC/DC changeover!!

Sent from my Sony Ericsson Xperia arc via Tapatalk.

Well at least the changeover is at a sensible place, rather than in the middle of nowhere like the WLL.......

 

[swt_passenger]

Assuming that (as previous surveys are supposed to have discovered) no one actually wants to go to Moorgate at the weekend, isn't the evening and weekend solution to run down the GN&C just as far as Highbury and Islington in passenger service, the main benefit being interchange with the ELL and NLL?

Perhaps someone could explain if there are any intermediate crossovers for reversing, if not perhaps single track working would be in order from Drayton Park to H&I?

 

[jon0844]

Old Street is the area that does very well in the evenings and weekends, on account of its locality to Shoreditch, so trains would need to go on to there to be worthwhile. Moorgate is pretty empty, as is most of the city, but trains would presumably need to go on to there to reverse.

It is true that you can go via King's Cross, but that's a big station to change from overground to tube. Unless there's a permanent possession on the line in the late evening and weekends, at the very least a limited service could be trialled following some local surveys with residents and visitors/commuters.

At the very least they could extend services on a Friday night for city workers that stay late after work. That means an extra shift for staff on one day a week.

 

[WatcherZero]

Going to be an announcement by Bombardier on the future of the Derby plant next Tuesday, Derby council leader who had been in Germany to try and persuade them to throw some work the plants way this week has come back very despondent talking about the end of the plant.

 

[cj_1985]

if we think back a few years Bombardier did keep staff on even when they didnt have much work... since there would be work in the future, and so didnt want to lose a skilled workforce...

this time... as im sure has been said.... there isnt going to be much in the way of rolling stock orders to justify keeping the staff on...

i mean it would be different if the crossrail stock would be decided and awarded sooner rather than later, or the mersey rail new stock etc...

its not like in years gone by, where the ROSCOs could order stock on spec, knowing that someone would make us of it... well turbostars anyway...
with the DfT micro managing every little thing and pulling all the strings re. stock... the TOCs that need additional stock can't order it...

even refurbishments... lets be honest... Wabtec seem to have dibs on most of the current work...

and with Metronet going down the tubes... some of the lines that would have recieved new stock, have now been postponed... thats more work lost.


yet another british industry (even if owned by overseas companies) f*cked up thanks to our wonderfull short sighted government...

 

[Fincra5]

Main problem is, when the new Thameslink stock comes in 377s will still be there, creating yet more incompatible stock...

 

[YorkshireBear]

if we think back a few years Bombardier did keep staff on even when they didnt have much work... since there would be work in the future, and so didnt want to lose a skilled workforce...

this time... as im sure has been said.... there isnt going to be much in the way of rolling stock orders to justify keeping the staff on...

i mean it would be different if the crossrail stock would be decided and awarded sooner rather than later, or the mersey rail new stock etc...

its not like in years gone by, where the ROSCOs could order stock on spec, knowing that someone would make us of it... well turbostars anyway...
with the DfT micro managing every little thing and pulling all the strings re. stock... the TOCs that need additional stock can't order it...

even refurbishments... lets be honest... Wabtec seem to have dibs on most of the current work...

and with Metronet going down the tubes... some of the lines that would have recieved new stock, have now been postponed... thats more work lost.


yet another british industry (even if owned by overseas companies) f*cked up thanks to our wonderfull short sighted government...

Exactly it doesnt matter that the company is foreign 200 years (ish) of history of trains being produced in this country is about to vanish. Does this possibly mean that the last 172 wil be the last mainline train built in this country? (exclude LU)

 

[ainsworth74]

Does this possibly mean that the last 172 wil be the last mainline train built in this country? (exclude LU)

Define built. IEP is going to assembled here but not built from scratch (at least at first, I'm sure I've read somewhere that Hitachi will look at building from scratch should they secure large enough orders from the UK/Europe for future production). So if you mean built literally from scratch then yes but if you mean putting trains together then no.

 

[WatcherZero]

Siemens Thameslink will be fitted out here but not assembled here, but they are building their factory with the room to expand and actually manufacture (or at least assemble) should they recieve future orders.

Hitachi IEP first few are built abroad but then will be assembled here with bodyshells built abroad.

 

[Nym]

Main problem is, when the new Thameslink stock comes in 377s will still be there, creating yet more incompatible stock...

They won't, they're going to Southern.

 

[whhistle]

Sorry, a little late to the party.

Looks a little like a 332/333 cab dome, 380 flaps and a 185 mid cab area with a little bit of 376 body/doors. Ha ha.

Sorry if this sounds like a silly question, but I don't understand, will they be running Thameslink under the "London Overground" banner? It seems a little silly not to as it surely does the same sort of role.
If so, why haven't they ordered more 376's to fit with the set?

 

[Nym]

Sorry if this sounds like a silly question, but I don't understand, will they be running Thameslink under the "London Overground" banner? It seems a little silly not to as it surely does the same sort of role.
If so, why haven't they ordered more 376's to fit with the set?

Proberbly because TfL have nothing to do with Brighton, Bedford, Peterborough or Cambridge?

 

[whhistle]

Thameslink run to Peterborough and Cambridge?
I thought their route was Bedford to Brighton? Ha ha, I am so out of touch!

 

[Nym]

They will with the new stock in 2019 when the GN Routes are connected up to the TL Core.

 

[Fincra5]

They won't, they're going to Southern.

I meant on the Southern area network.

From what I've heard at depots it seems like when the Thameslink project is complete TL, SN and Possibly SE would be merged into one. Which is the plan for TL is to run to Eastbourne and Littlehampton, with most trains running through London Bridge (incl a lot of current Southern services) and onwards. It would be the only way for it to work.

 

[Nym]

Yep, it will include some southern and south eastern routes, heres a map of the routes projected to be using the TL Core and under the Thameslink Brand.

 

[Skimble19]

I'd ignore that map if I was you, FCC themselves have said it's very out of date..

Main problem is, when the new Thameslink stock comes in 377s will still be there, creating yet more incompatible stock...

Not for FCC it won't.. Maybe in the Southern network area it will be another class, but then think about it: There's already so many different classes: 171, 319, 375, 376, 377, 444, 450, 455, 456, 465, 466 and possibly a couple more I've missed - plus various different subclasses. What difference will another one make? (which strictly speaking will actually replace the 319's, so there won't actually be a change in the number of different types of stock).