Anarchy in Calais

[Metrailway]

You do realise an extremely large proportion of those immigrants (read way more than half) are from developed western nations, right?

Which "developed" western nations do you mean. Remember that Poland warned the EU what could occur once both Romania and Bulgaria were granted EU status, as Poland had far more experience of that particular matter over a very long period of time.

It would be interesting to see the data to back TheKnightWho's assertion that over 50% of migrants in the UK are from developed western nations.

The ONS data I have seen actually shows the opposite. Their most recent dataset, published on 2nd July 2015, shows that there are 63.270 million people in the UK (excluding those residing in communal residences) of which 7.291 million were born outside the UK.

Out of those 7.291 million:

• 1.374 million are from the old EU states (EU members prior to 2004 - EU-15)
• 1.369 million are from new EU states (EU members after 2004 - EU-A8, EU-2, Malta, Cyprus and Croatia).
• 0.311 million are from non-EU states
• 2.671 million are from Asia
• 1.314 million are from Africa
• 0.284 million are from North America
• 0.411 million are from Central and South America
• 0.187 million are from Oceania.

If you merely add the numbers from Africa, Asia, Central and South America (I don't think anyone would consider nations there 'developed western nations') it equals 4.396 million. 4.396 million divided by 7.291 million = 0.603 or 60.3%. Therefore at least 60.3% of migrants in the UK were not born in a 'developed western nation'.

If you consider the EU-A8 (like Poland, Lithuania etc) and the EU-2 (Bulgaria and Romania) states to not be 'developed western nations', then the proportion of migrants in the UK not born in a 'developed western nation' increases to 77.9%.

 

[radamfi]

7.291 million were born outside the UK.

Out of those 7.291 million

But he was talking about immigrants since the mid-90s. Much of those 7.291 million probably arrived before then. Some of the immigrants from developed countries since the mid-90s would have left the UK during this time. There are also a few UK citizens through parentage who were born overseas who have since moved to the UK. Obviously immigration through a visa from outside the EU has been increasingly restricted over the last 10 years and is now only really a possibility for people wanting to marry a UK citizen (but even then only if the UK spouse has a high income or high net worth) or for very highly skilled people.

 

[St Rollox]

Anybody that's crossed continents and the Med for a chance to live in London ought to be given a chance.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Anybody that's crossed continents and the Med for a chance to live in London ought to be given a chance.

Why not in Wester Hailes ?

Or to help repopulate those areas that were afflicted by the Highland Clearances so many years ago,

 

[RichmondCommu]

Please explain in your view what the difference between an 'illegal' and a 'migrant' is.

In all fairness you could describe my wife and I as migrants given that we moved from East Lancs / East Midlands in our early 20's to find better jobs and a better quality of life in London.

 

[AM9]

In all fairness you could describe my wife and I as migrants given that we moved from East Lancs / East Midlands in our early 20's to find better jobs and a better quality of life in London.

And those who leave the UK to live in Spain are migrants. So it isn't a pejorative handle then.
Whereas, there are plenty of 'illegals' of home grown stock already in the UK, after all, it just means somebody who has been found to have broken the law.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Anybody that's crossed continents and the Med for a chance to live in London ought to be given a chance.

However who's paying for the accommodation / education / other benefits? From my point of view if someone arrives in this country having fled for their lives than our country should do all that we can to look after them and give them a new start. However if they are economic migrants and do not have the right to work in this country they should not be allowed to live and work here.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

And those who leave the UK to live in Spain are migrants. So it isn't a pejorative handle then.
Whereas, there are plenty of 'illegals' of home grown stock already in the UK, after all, it just means somebody who has been found to have broken the law.

I think the term for that is 'criminal'. 'illegal' is generally used to refer to the things that are against the law, not the people who do those things.

To my mind describing a person as an 'illegal' sounds to me very much like a term of abuse. Insofar as you can grammatically parse it consistent with the normal meaning of 'illegal', it seems to suggest that the very existence of the person is somehow illegal - which would clearly be an atrocious sentiment to hold.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

To my mind describing a person as an 'illegal' sounds to me very much like a term of abuse. Insofar as you can grammatically parse it consistent with the normal meaning of 'illegal', it seems to suggest that the very existence of the person is somehow illegal - which would clearly be an atrocious sentiment to hold.

The use of the term under question sounds as if it is one that has had its origin in the USA.

 

[Antman]

Anybody that's crossed continents and the Med for a chance to live in London ought to be given a chance.

Could you explain the logic behind that?

 

[90019]

Why not in Wester Hailes ?

Because it's a sh*thole full of the dregs of society?

 

[zuriblue]

The use of the term under question sounds as if it is one that has had its origin in the USA.

It is. It was originated by right wing Americans as a term of abuse against Latinos who were generally assumed to all be illegal immigrants.

It's been adopted in the UK by the Daily Mail and Daily Express reading types who have the same ultra-right perspective.

 

[Gathursty]

Put a 'Sangatte' camp on Jersey, Guernsey and in Wootton Bassett.
Use Glastonbury style security around Coquelles/Calais and other nearby ports.
Have a UK Gov't backed #BritainIsRubbish campaign to deter immigrants, backed by Katie Hopkins, Richard Littlejohn and Boris Johnson.
Be both in and out of the European Union so as to have an Australian style points system.
If you commit a crime in this country and have no residency and neither do your family, you should all be sent back together to a safe nearby country to satisfy the right to a family life.

 

[St Rollox]

Why not in Wester Hailes ?

Or to help repopulate those areas that were afflicted by the Highland Clearances so many years ago,

Don't see any problem with that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Put a 'Sangatte' camp on Jersey, Guernsey and in Wootton Bassett.
Use Glastonbury style security around Coquelles/Calais and other nearby ports.
Have a UK Gov't backed #BritainIsRubbish campaign to deter immigrants, backed by Katie Hopkins, Richard Littlejohn and Boris Johnson.
Be both in and out of the European Union so as to have an Australian style points system.
If you commit a crime in this country and have no residency and neither do your family, you should all be sent back together to a safe nearby country to satisfy the right to a family life.

How about treating people as human beings.
You never know, it might catch on.

 

[Antman]

Don't see any problem with that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


How about treating people as human beings.
You never know, it might catch on.

You continually make absurd statements which you refuse to back up with any sort of reasoning or logic:cry:

 

[meridian2]

Don't see any problem with that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


How about treating people as human beings.
You never know, it might catch on.

Where in Gathursty's post did he mention treating them not as human beings?

 

[Aldaniti]

Good grief, it looks like some of them have been dispersed to Lancashire and are now being fed and watered at a Best Western country hotel. Hope we don't become swamped.

 

[AM9]

Put a 'Sangatte' camp on Jersey, Guernsey and in Wootton Bassett.

I can't see what that has to do with migrant flow around Calais.

Use Glastonbury style security around Coquelles/Calais and other nearby ports.

That's wouldn't be accepted by the residents of Calais, - imagine how Dover would react to such a suggestion.

Have a UK Gov't backed #BritainIsRubbish campaign to deter immigrants, backed by Katie Hopkins, Richard Littlejohn and Boris Johnson.

It would also be necessary to stop all promoting of Britain as a place to do business or to visit. That would impact on tourism and other exports. Repellent as they are, xenophobic rantings of Hopkins and Littlejohn would be irrelevant to somebody who is desperate. Johnson also knows the impact on trade that such nonsense would create.

Be both in and out of the European Union so as to have an Australian style points system.

Cameron will get enough resistance to his 'cake and eat it' demands from the EU next year, so that is a non-starter even if the population wanted it. Maybe it is just another ploy to force the UK to leave the EU.

If you commit a crime in this country and have no residency and neither do your family, you should all be sent back together to a safe nearby country to satisfy the right to a family life.

So which 'safe nearby country' is going to volunteer to take on those now we don't have the convenience of colonies? I presume that Penal transportation is now official UKIP policy. That is real thinking 'out of their box'.

I can't believe that somebody would actually post such an ill-considered rubbish as in the above post (#163) unless it is just an irrational xenophobic rant.

 

[yorksrob]

Cameron will get enough resistance to his 'cake and eat it' demands from the EU next year, so that is a non-starter even if the population wanted it. Maybe it is just another ploy to force the UK to leave the EU .

The re-negotiation is pretty much vital to ensure that non Eurozone countries aren't forever strong-armed by a much larger interest block.

Given the recent history of Greece, I would have thought that the folly of trying to force every country to follow the same policy was obvious to all but the most blinkered centralist. But then again, the EU has never had any shortage of those.

 

[Antman]

I can't see what that has to do with migrant flow around Calais.

That's wouldn't be accepted by the residents of Calais, - imagine how Dover would react to such a suggestion.

It would also be necessary to stop all promoting of Britain as a place to do business or to visit. That would impact on tourism and other exports. Repellent as they are, xenophobic rantings of Hopkins and Littlejohn would be irrelevant to somebody who is desperate. Johnson also knows the impact on trade that such nonsense would create.

Cameron will get enough resistance to his 'cake and eat it' demands from the EU next year, so that is a non-starter even if the population wanted it. Maybe it is just another ploy to force the UK to leave the EU.

So which 'safe nearby country' is going to volunteer to take on those now we don't have the convenience of colonies? I presume that Penal transportation is now official UKIP policy. That is real thinking 'out of their box'.

I can't believe that somebody would actually post such an ill-considered rubbish as in the above post (#163) unless it is just an irrational xenophobic rant.

How is #163 ill considered rubbish?

Why would residents of Calais object to proper fencing? They must be sick and tired of this lawless mob on their doorstep?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Good grief, it looks like some of them have been dispersed to Lancashire and are now being fed and watered at a Best Western country hotel. Hope we don't become swamped.

They are being put up in hotels all over the place, meanwhile there are Brits sleeping rough on the streets.

 

[deltic]

They are being put up in hotels all over the place, meanwhile there are Brits sleeping rough on the streets.

There are plenty of migrants sleeping on the streets too - arent we all humans deserving of respect and compassion regardless of where we were born?

 

[meridian2]

There are plenty of migrants sleeping on the streets too - arent we all humans deserving of respect and compassion regardless of where we were born?

The issue of their humanity is not under the cosh at all; we're discussing the current migrant crisis not who's more human.

 

[Antman]

There are plenty of migrants sleeping on the streets too - arent we all humans deserving of respect and compassion regardless of where we were born?

We get our house in order first, there are people who have worked and paid taxes most of their lives including ex military personnel who have risked their lives to protect our freedom who are sleeping rough on the streets, they should take priority over migrants who are here illegally.

 

[Senex]

There are plenty of migrants sleeping on the streets too - arent we all humans deserving of respect and compassion regardless of where we were born?

Not if we're here through criminal activity. If people haven't had an asylum claim processed at the point of entry then they are committing an offence by crossing into another EU country, as from Italy to France -- which is why in a desultory manner the French police put at least some of them back across the frontier, and they are surely committing criminal trespass by entering the Eurotunnel restricted area, let alone by actually cutting the fences.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

We get our house in order first, there are people who have worked and paid taxes most of their lives including ex military personnel who have risked their lives to protect our freedom who are sleeping rough on the streets, they should take priority over migrants who are here illegally.

We're pretty bad at looking after people who have worked here and paid our taxes all their lives, and we should certainly get that right before doing anything at all for illegal immigrants (who are not the same as genuine asylum seekers, who are likely to be a very much smaller number).

 

[Johnuk123]

Posters who say the residents of Calais wouldn't like a brand new shiny fence forget the fact that the town is an absolute dump, an eyesore which could do with something nice and clean erected around it.

Calais is a place you might pass through but would never want to stop in.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Over the years, comment has been made about residents of countries once under British mandate having a right to settle in Britain.

More recently, comment has been mentioned about those from Syria who are currently on French soil on the northern coastline. Under what I said in the first paragraph, one must not forget that the French mandate for Syria and The Lebanon did not end until 1943, so there is a precedent for Syrian people to be cared for in the country that once held the mandate for their country, which is France and not Britain.

 

[Johnuk123]

The intelligent approach would be to claim asylum in the first safe country, then get an Italian or Greek passport then you're free to wander at will and unhindered anywhere within Europe.

Instead they become criminals by breaking into the UK.

We are continually being told they're all highly educated and will be our future doctors and scientists, if they're so clever they wouldn't be breaking the law they'd do it the legal way.

This tide of economic migrants is now well established and is permanent, how can England less than a fifth the size of Texas simply absorb an unlimited amount of Africans for ever.

 

[deltic]

If you are a refuge you do not usually get granted citzenship of the country you arrive in even if granted refuge status - rather you get given right to remain - so if you are granted refuge status in Greece or Italy then you would not have the right to move to another EU country. Most refugees do not in fact travel far - the countries with the largest number of Syrian refugees are those on its border - namely Turkey and Lebanon. Pakistan has taken most Afghan refugees. In all cases the numbers dwarf those taken by the UK or even seeking to move to the UK.

The vast majority of people who have lived in the UK all their lives and paid taxes here are not actually net contributors to the Exchequer - most of us take out far more than we pay in but that's a different issue.

 

[Johnuk123]

The vast majority of people who have lived in the UK all their lives and paid taxes here are not actually net contributors to the Exchequer - most of us take out far more than we pay in but that's a different issue.

You're right it is a different issue and irrelevant to this thread, why don't you start a new thread on it if it concerns you.

 

[NSEFAN]

We are continually being told they're all highly educated and will be our future doctors and scientists, if they're so clever they wouldn't be breaking the law they'd do it the legal way.

This tide of economic migrants is now well established and is permanent, how can England less than a fifth the size of Texas simply absorb an unlimited amount of Africans for ever.

I don't think anyone would seriously suggest that those people cutting holes in the fences at Calais will go on to be doctors and scientists. That notion is insulting to those who have gone through the system openly and honestly, and are now working here and paying taxes. Those who enter illegally will clearly be working illegally, getting paid next to nothing and probably not qualify for any benefits as they won't even have an NI number. There is a general resentment against immigration and non-Brits as a result of incidents like those at Calais (and blanket media coverage which follows). Decent honest people are being made a scapegoat by the press because of others who have tried to get to the UK by hiding under lorries.

If we really are concerned about having too many "useless" people then why instead are we not stripping people of their citizenship (even if they were born here) if they haven't contributed their fair share? I am not making this suggestion at all seriously but it would certainly seem to fit in with the view that some posters on this thread seem to take on other people. Such a system would at least be fairer, no?