• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Allowed?

Status
Not open for further replies.

150222

Member
Joined
9 Jul 2011
Messages
1,002
I was on a train earlier today and the guard kept poking his head into the drivers cab. Now I thought that this was not allowed. I won't mention the service but it was a northern 144 pacer. He also kept leaving the back cab door open.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

HST Power

Established Member
Joined
25 Nov 2010
Messages
3,704
Well I'm no expert but shouldn't the door stay closed for safety related reasons?
 

WestCoast

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,665
Location
South Yorkshire
VT regularly see either the TM or a host delivering coffee or tea to the driver!

I have often seen this, while seated in coach A. Seen a bacon sandwich being delivered on Wrexham & Shropshire at a prolonged station stop (timetabled of course)!
 

Darandio

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2007
Messages
11,127
Location
Redcar
I witnessed a Northern guard ask a passenger if they had finished with their copy of the Daily Mirror which was discarded on the seat alongside. The passenger said "of course" and the guard took it back to the rear cab and no doubt read it, most likely completely negligent of any duties!

Because of this, I now expect the world to implode and life as we know it to cease existence.

:lol:

Really, did it matter that much?
 

pmgarvey

Member
Joined
25 May 2011
Messages
83
Tad defensive guys. OP wasn't calling for the guards head just asking a question. How would he know if its normal and safe or not?
 
Last edited:

150222

Member
Joined
9 Jul 2011
Messages
1,002
That is why I haven't posted a time or service. I have no itention of reporting it and yes I did just wonder if it was allowed.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
78,217
Location
Yorkshire
Tad defensive guys. OP wasn't calling for the guards head just asking a question. How would he know if its normal and safe or not?
I think you can tell from the reaction that it's not supposed to be done!
 

Old Timer

Established Member
Joined
24 Aug 2009
Messages
3,702
Location
On a plane somewhere at 35,000
I was on a train earlier today and the guard kept poking his head into the drivers cab. Now I thought that this was not allowed. I won't mention the service but it was a northern 144 pacer. He also kept leaving the back cab door open.
As others have said there could have been a variety of reasons why this situation occurred.

That said, we do not live yet in an authoritarian State where everyone is expected to inform on everyone else, and I doubt your post will be very well accepted by on train staff.

I think it preferable that staff are allowed to carry out their duties with a modicum of tolerance, but the problem with a post such as yours is that it can draw attention to minor type infringments which whilst they may have no impact upon safety can have more serious implications for the crew concerned.

As a basic premise I believe that non-railway posters should accept that the vast majority of Railway staff carry out their work in a perfectly safe and proper manner, and should be given the latitiude of being allowed to use their common sense and judgement when they are at work without the worry that someone is ready to place a comment on a website that can be read by senior managers.

Not all these managers have the background or indeed the desire to exercise judgement themselves and act like a latter day Gestapo unit when any suggestion of even the slightest impropriety is made.

It would be better if such questions were perhaps raised by way of PM to someone who would be able to answer without risk to those involved.
 

150222

Member
Joined
9 Jul 2011
Messages
1,002
As others have said there could have been a variety of reasons why this situation occurred.

That said, we do not live yet in an authoritarian State where everyone is expected to inform on everyone else, and I doubt your post will be very well accepted by on train staff.

I think it preferable that staff are allowed to carry out their duties with a modicum of tolerance, but the problem with a post such as yours is that it can draw attention to minor type infringments which whilst they may have no impact upon safety can have more serious implications for the crew concerned.

As a basic premise I believe that non-railway posters should accept that the vast majority of Railway staff carry out their work in a perfectly safe and proper manner, and should be given the latitiude of being allowed to use their common sense and judgement when they are at work without the worry that someone is ready to place a comment on a website that can be read by senior managers.

Not all these managers have the background or indeed the desire to exercise judgement themselves and act like a latter day Gestapo unit when any suggestion of even the slightest impropriety is made.

It would be better if such questions were perhaps raised by way of PM to someone who would be able to answer without risk to those involved.
But I have not posted a time or service because of that reason. I would not like to get the staff involved in trouble and was just asking a question!
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
78,217
Location
Yorkshire
But I have not posted a time or service because of that reason. I would not like to get the staff involved in trouble and was just asking a question!
A question best not asked on a public forum and instead best asked of another enthusiast/staff member who you know in person. If you don't know any, I recommend meeting some off this forum. Everyone (who attends meets) is really friendly :) Alternatively if you don't know any and don't want to meet any in real life, then as Old Timer says, a PM to someone knowledgeable (who won't bite your head off!) is best for a simple answer to a simple question like this.
 

wintonian

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2010
Messages
4,889
Location
Hampshire
I do not know if this is strictly allowed, but if they are just delivering a cupa or picking something up then as a pax I see no problem with it.
 

150222

Member
Joined
9 Jul 2011
Messages
1,002
I do not know if this is strictly allowed, but if they are just delivering a cupa or picking something up then as a pax I see no problem with it.

I think the guard just said something to him. I Would have thought cab to cab radio is best for this.
 

Old Timer

Established Member
Joined
24 Aug 2009
Messages
3,702
Location
On a plane somewhere at 35,000
But I have not posted a time or service because of that reason. I would not like to get the staff involved in trouble and was just asking a question!
Yes I understand that, as much as I understand you raising the question. I do not think that anyone is angry with you, simply a little frustrated for the reasons I set out.

The issue is that like many things in life, there is a slight gap between what is completely correct and what becomes the "norm" so to speak.

In BR days managers were much more relaxed having been through the lines of promotion in most cases.

These days train crews managers may well not have risen through such a route and may well be from outside the Industry with no background experience to guide their judgement as to what is serious and what really should have a blind eye turned.

It is known that many of these guys will be monitoring websites such as this, and will start enquiries when they read things they do not like.

Unfortunately it is these managers who have both self doubts and a need to be "seen" to be managing who will go on what are little more than witchunts simply because of that lack of confidence. This can and does cause a breakdown in the relationship between staff and enthusiasts, who in fairness ask such things out of a lack of understanding as to the implications, rather than from a malicious or a disruptive reason.
 
Joined
12 Jan 2011
Messages
44
Location
Poole, Dorset.
I was on a heritage line the other day and at least 2 different people wandered into the DMU cab to chat to the driver or ask him to blow the two tones.
 

merlodlliw

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2009
Messages
5,852
Location
Wrexham/ Denbighshire /Flintshire triangle
I gain an impression that many people look for problems that do not exist, I am no expert in the rules & regulations of on board staff, when the Pendo drag was running Monday to Saturday Holyhead to Crewe, a member of the VT train staff took the driver a cup of coffee while in Chester station, I do not see a problem with that, or in fact a member of W/S staff taking the driver a bacon roll while in a station stop.

There is to much assassination by facebook forum types these days. I am not having a go at the author, who could well have asked the guard if there was a problem.
 

battledroid

Member
Joined
30 Aug 2011
Messages
18
Rule book or no rule book, out of respect you take the driver a bloody brew and a snack at any suitable opportunity - I'd have thought after all the red tape and bureaucracy that surrounds and literally wrecks the UK rail network day in day out, that a forum of like-minded enthusiasts would be able to stand back and say.. "It's nice to see a bit of comradery left on the network"...

The guard who looks after his driver once the passengers are sorted out is a gentleman. The guard who takes five minutes out to read the mirror probably after working 12 hours dealing with unruly and typically rude passengers on any Northern route is more than likely a bloody nice chap, who earnt and deserved a few minutes to himself.

Lets show some support for our drivers and train crew.
 

Mark_re

Member
Joined
7 Oct 2010
Messages
133
Location
Winchester
Ha! - years ago (1997/8), when I caught the train to school, it was always so packed leaving Durham that people were often left standing on Chester-le-Street station. (I'm sure it still is). The guard once invited us to stand in the rear cab of the 142! I can't imagine that's strictly permitted... :roll:
 

Minilad

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
4,396
Location
Anywhere B link goes
Rule book or no rule book, out of respect you take the driver a bloody brew and a snack at any suitable opportunity - I'd have thought after all the red tape and bureaucracy that surrounds and literally wrecks the UK rail network day in day out, that a forum of like-minded enthusiasts would be able to stand back and say.. "It's nice to see a bit of comradery left on the network"...

The guard who looks after his driver once the passengers are sorted out is a gentleman. The guard who takes five minutes out to read the mirror probably after working 12 hours dealing with unruly and typically rude passengers on any Northern route is more than likely a bloody nice chap, who earnt and deserved a few minutes to himself.

Lets show some support for our drivers and train crew.

Crikey I wish you worked on XC. We used to get this all the time but now it's only on the odd occasion
 

NightatLaira

Member
Joined
14 Jun 2010
Messages
490
I do find it interesting to see the rules which staff on this forum feel should be obeyed, and the rules that staff feel can be turned a blind eye to. I'm not trying to stir up anything here, but it does seem to be a 'one rule for the staff, and another for the punters/enthusiasts' a lot of the time here.

Not that I think there's anything wrong with a guard talking to a driver whilst he's working... :roll: Or bringing him a coffee for that matter. As XCDriver says - it's the last bit of comradery left on the network.

But just look at the contrast to this thread, and the infamous Lymmington station master thread where people were baying for blood. Both are staff members flouting the rulebook, but both were received very differently.

And then you have instances where people leap to the defence of the indefensible - such as the time when the FGW driver was reading a newspaper whilst driving.

It's a funny old world... :roll: Sometimes I'm just glad I don't work in the rail industry because the inconsistency would drive me up the wall!
 
Last edited:

Intermodal

Established Member
Joined
3 Nov 2010
Messages
1,306
Location
I wonder how long I can make my location on this f
Well I do think you'll stir something up by posting that...

Do you really think a guard/TM popping into the cab for 10-15 seconds at an appropriate time (e.g. not stopping for station or signal) with a cup of tea or coffee is going to impact on safety?

Strictly you can't do it, but the driver needs his coffee!
 

ralphchadkirk

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2008
Messages
5,754
Location
Essex
But just look at the contrast to this thread, and the infamous Lymmington station master thread where people were baying for blood. Both are staff members flouting the rulebook, but both were received very differently.

Entirely different cases. It's like trying to compare manslaughter with the odd bit of littering.
 

richw

Veteran Member
Joined
10 Jun 2010
Messages
11,528
Location
Liskeard
at the end of the day would you rather the guard took the driver a coffee, or he got up left the cab and made it himself!!!
 

driver9000

Established Member
Joined
13 Jan 2008
Messages
4,556
at the end of the day would you rather the guard took the driver a coffee, or he got up left the cab and made it himself!!!

Why would the Driver have to leave the cab to make a brew?

I carry a brew kit with me in my bag consisting of a mug, flask, teabags etc so I can make a drink when the train is stopped.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top