All Line Rail ROVERS

[trainrider1985]

This subject has probably came up before. I would like to Explore more of England and definitely Travel on The West Highland and Far North in Scotland
How much is a seven day ticket? and do you have to pay a supplement on High speed services. Also can you use them on Sleeper services Are there any RAILCARD discounts available?

 

[Chapeltom]

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/promotions/pr20780b0a0400020167ed620a7e504e/details.html

 

[LexyBoy]

This subject has probably came up before. I would like to Explore more of England and definitely Travel on The West Highland and Far North in Scotland
How much is a seven day ticket? and do you have to pay a supplement on High speed services. Also can you use them on Sleeper services Are there any RAILCARD discounts available?

See Chapeltom's post. The ALR is valid on all services throughout the country, although recently some restrictions (see here) have been introduced on services departing a few stations. The only supplements needed are if you want a bed on the sleepers.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

It should be valid on HS1 domestic services (South Eastern Trains from St Pancras NOT Eurostar). When I had an ALR last year when the HS1 services were pretty new, some of the guards were unsure if it was valid but let me on anyway so I did St Pancras to Ebbsfleet and Stratford International fine.

 

[LexyBoy]

Also, depending on what you want to do, a combination of Advance fares and regional rovers (there are hundreds!) is likely to be cheaper, and will allow you to break up your trip so you’re not travelling all day, every day.
For example, planning ahead you should be able to get an Advance single to Glasgow for £30 or so, then use a Freedom of Scotland Travelpass 4 in 8 at £114, which allows you any four days in eight of unlimited travel within Scotland (also ferries and some coaches). If you let us know the areas you’d like to explore I’m sure we can come up with some suggestions.

You can see the full list of Rover (valid within a set region) and Ranger (valid within a set region and TOC, usually daily) tickets here:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/promotions/rangers_and_rovers.html
also this site looks quite useful:
http://www.railrover.org/

Then again, if you really want to cover as much of the network as possible, the ALR’s probably best.

 

[rail-britain]

It should be valid on HS1 domestic services (South Eastern Trains from St Pancras NOT Eurostar). When I had an ALR last year when the HS1 services were pretty new, some of the guards were unsure if it was valid but let me on anyway so I did St Pancras to Ebbsfleet and Stratford International fine.

SET have previously confirmed that the ALR is not valid on these services
However, as you have found staff appear equally confused as some passengers are being permitted access whist others are being refused during the journey after already being permitted access

 

[LexyBoy]

SET have previously confirmed that the ALR is not valid on these services

Rubbish, of course it's valid!

 

[Ivo]

SET have previously confirmed that the ALR is not valid on these services
However, as you have found staff appear equally confused as some passengers are being permitted access whist others are being refused during the journey after already being permitted access

Rubbish, of course it's valid!

Would any TOC besides Southeastern have said this, if they were the operator of HS1? I think not.

 

[rail-britain]

This response was received at the end of last year :

Thank you for your email dated [date]. We have investigated your comments with regards to the validity of a Seven Day All Line Rail Rover on some of our services, specifically those to and from London St Pancras, known as High Speed or HS1

I can confirm that this ticket is not valid on any of these services.
The presentation and use of a such a ticket would result in refusal and the requirement to purchase an additional ticket
We would instead suggest using the services from London Victoria

Thank you for taking the time to bring your concerns to our attention.

Yours sincerely
[name]
Southeastern Customer Services

 

[strange6]

This response was received at the end of last year :

Thank you for your email dated [date]. We have investigated your comments with regards to the validity of a Seven Day All Line Rail Rover on some of our services, specifically those to and from London St Pancras, known as High Speed or HS1

I can confirm that this ticket is not valid on any of these services.
The presentation and use of a such a ticket would result in refusal and the requirement to purchase an additional ticket
We would instead suggest using the services from London Victoria

Thank you for taking the time to bring your concerns to our attention.

Yours sincerely
[name]
Southeastern Customer Services

It clearly shouldn't be called an 'all line rover' then should it? Wonder what Trading Standards would make of that?

 

[philjo]

No mention of HS1 being excluded on the ALR details on the National rail website:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/promotions/pr20780b0a0400020167ed620a7e504e/details.html#no

The All Line Rail Rover ticket allows unlimited travel on most National Rail services at any time for 7 consecutive days.

It does not include the charge for seat reservations, where payable.

The All Line Rail Rover is valid for travel on:

* ScotRail Caledonian Sleeper services in seated coaches (reservations compulsory) or in a berth with the payment of the appropriate supplement.
* First Great Western Night Riviera Sleeper services in seated coaches (reservations recommended but not compulsory) or in a berth with payment of the appropriate supplement.
* Ffestiniog Railway.



The All Lines Rail Rover is NOT valid for travel on Eurostar, Heathrow Express, London Underground, Docklands Light Railway and Croydon Tramlink, private railways (except Ffestiniog Railway) or on any shipping service.

Additionally it is also not available for travel on Heathrow Connect services between Hayes & Harlington and Heathrow.

The All Lines Rail Rover is NOT valid for boarding or alighting train services operated by CrossCountry, East Coast, East Midlands Trains, or Virgin Trains before 10:00 Mondays to Fridays at the following stations:

* Birmingham New Street
* Bedford
* London Euston
* London Kings Cross
* London St Pancras International
* Luton
* Luton Airport Parkway
* Milton Keynes Central
* Stevenage
* Watford Junction

No restrictions apply on Saturdays, Sundays and Bank Holidays.

 

[Ivo]

What publicity has the ever been (and I mean publicity, not e-mails etc) that has declared the ALR to be invalid on HS1? If it can be valid on the Caley then why not on some (admittedly fast) commuter line? I wonder if sonic2009 ever attempted it as part of his "adventure" recently, as he planned to?

And do we have any proof from National Rail, ATOC etc agreeing with them, or is it all against them as above?

Mind you, if SE had their way every ALR in the country would be torn into 12,000 little pieces, and fed to the nearest vagrant.

 

[LexyBoy]

Response:

Thank you for your email dated [date]. We have investigated your brain with regards to the validity of a your previous letter, specifically regarding your spurious and unsubstantiated claims regarding the invalidity of an ALR on High Speed or HS1

I can confirm that these claims are not valid on any grounds.
The presentation and use of a such a claim would result in accusations of fraudulent mis-selling due to the requirement to purchase an additional ticket
We would instead suggest not asking SET anything requiring more than one brain cell to answer

Thank you for taking the time to bring your concerns to our attention.

Yours sincerely
[name]
LexyBoy

Seriously. Do they just look at anything that doesn't say "PLUS HS1" on and claim it's not valid?

 

[Ivo]

Do we have any SET employees on here? Perhaps they could confirm that we are of course correct?

Just done a Google search, typing in "all line rover southeastern", with no conclusive evidence in their favour after five pages; just a series of questions. Mind you, you'd be surprised how many results in the first two pages came from something called "RailUK Forums"

 

[flymo]

Regarding the HS1 line, it is shown on the ALR map available on the National Rail website.

 

[Ivo]

Here's a surprise:

Go on the Southeastern website, and in the search box type in "Rover". No results at all; not even the Kent Rover.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Actually, I'd like to ask a question. Without a PRIV, would people consider the ALR good value for money? Because on the one side, a series of Advances could be better value, whereas localised Rovers (especially the Freedom of Scotland) are far cheaper. But the former can be difficult, while the latter are restricted by time and/or days; on the other hand, even with a Railcard it's upwards of £400 for 14 days...

 

[furgus2]

When South Eastern started the limited service between St Pancras and Ashford I emailed Customer Services to find out if the All Line Rover would be valid. The reply back was that it was not because the limit of validity was Swanley! When I phoned to explain to them that I had not enquired about the validity of a Kent Rover the person I spoke to did not appear to even know what an All Line Rover was and eventually put me through to someone else.
This second person was the one who had replied to my original email. He again came up with the Swanley limit but when I again explained it was an All Line Rover he said it was still not valid but that discussion were taking place as to whether it would be allowed once the full service was introduced.
Anyway, I decided to try it anyway a few days later at Ashford. I asked two SE staff on the platform if it was valid and they said it was. Also, onboard there was no problem. I've since made several HS1 journeys using ALRs without any problem except for the pain of always having to ask to be let through the gates as these tickets never work through them

 

[sonic2009]

ITS AN ALL LINE ROVER...

how can southeastern not accept it, are they saying they are not part of atoc or national rail???

 

[33056]

Actually, I'd like to ask a question. Without a PRIV, would people consider the ALR good value for money?

Short answer = no.

STD class ALR = £650 for 7 days
STD class 10 day Interrail Global pass = £327 for 10 days out of 22, only £2 more that a 2nd class child ALR hock:

 

[Sapphire Blue]

Short answer = no.

STD class ALR = £650 for 7 days
STD class 10 day Interrail Global pass = £327 for 10 days out of 22, only £2 more that a 2nd class child ALR hock:

Think you mean 1st Class ALR, £650 for 7 days.

Oh and ALR was accepted on HS1 yesterday.

 

[Seacook]

SET seem to be rather confused. Their website about valid tickets for high speed trains states "ANY PERMITTED - in the case of long distance through tickets, i.e. destinations beyond St Pancras". It can certainly be argued that an ALR falls into this category and therefore is not barred - cortrctly as the ALR description does not include HS1 in its list of exceptions.

Unless SET staff are under the impression that it is a private railway....

 

[Ivo]

But it does work out at only about £30 a day. When you consider that half of the longer distance fares in this country are set by CrossCountry, and therefore horribly expensive (that's not bias, it's fact; Bristol to Manchester 14 days prior to travel for instance is £20 AP if you're lucky), I think there may be a case, which is why I asked. When I did my grand day out in February last year (the first time I crossed the border to Scotland), my ticket costs worked out at as-near-as-makes-no-difference £100, with a YP. And when you consider that the Caley was only £24 of that - equivalent to a Margate HS1 return - it suddenly seems better.

If you lived in Manchester, i.e. fairly central to the entire island, with excellent connections and only limited reliance on XC, then I feel I would agree. But down here, where everything long-distance is XC unless you intend to go deeper into the South-West, into South Wales or towards London, then I do think it may be worthwhile, and that is the main reason I asked.

Last summer, my father and I were seriously considering goin on an InterRail holiday. But I have no passport - and he couldn't guarantee his availability from work. Initially, we were going to do an ALR; maybe I could mention it to him again. In fact, maybe it would make a good 60th birthday present (which won't be needed for more than five years yet)?

 

[dcd]

I used an ALR from St Pancras to Ashford on 2nd August 2010. I had to be let through the barrier at St Pancras (as everywhere else with a barrier as ALR's were no excepted - well at least my Senior First Class wasn't). I was also inspected on train with no problems. Regarding original question there are discounts for Senior Rail Card holders.

 

[Ivo]

I used an ALR from St Pancras to Ashford on 2nd August 2010. I had to be let through the barrier at St Pancras (as everywhere else with a barrier as ALR's were no excepted - well at least my Senior First Class wasn't). I was also inspected on train with no problems. Regarding original question there are discounts for Senior Rail Card holders.

One fairly obvious piece of advice, which EVERYONE (by which I mean longer-term and more well-known posters) here will agree with:

DO NOT use the ticket barriers with an ALR! Always show the gateline staff. Always better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Flying Snail]

But it does work out at only about £30 a day.

£430 for 7 days is £61.43 per day.

If what you want to do is bash long distance routes for 7 or 14 consecutive days then it is reasonable value. If you are going to spend a day or two in a single region or spend some time sightseeing and not travel every day as most normal tourists would do then it is not good value at all.

The Britrail/Interrail products are priced at a good rate for the sort of itinerary most non-enthusiast tourists would have, particularly the flexi-passes. They range from £15-50 per day. The nearest match to a 7 day ALR, an 8 day Britrail consecutive is €219 so less than £200 or £28 per day. I would say that even these could be beaten for price by many users with the right combination of advances and splits but the flexibility and ease of use would more than make up for that.

 

[Ivo]

It's £429 for 14 days in STD with a YP.

 

[bse35]

Regarding the HS1 line, it is shown on the ALR map available on the National Rail website.

Yes but the the Heathrow line is also shown on that map which is restricted.

 

[bb21]

With the risk of going off topic, since Britrail has been mentioned, does anyone know how many "buddy pass"es can be bought for each Britrail ticket? I am thinking of getting one myself (legally) for the summer so might be able to carry someone along

 

[MCR247]

MY ALR was accepted on HS1 about 5 times...

 

[33056]

Think you mean 1st Class ALR, £650 for 7 days.

Oh and ALR was accepted on HS1 yesterday.

My apologies, was looking at the 14 day fare, even so:

14 day STD ALR = £650
15 day STD Global Interrail = £362

In fact, you can get a Global Interrail for a whole month for only £548!