Airport stations that are not through stations

[HowardGWR]

A point that seems somewhat of a conundrum for rail planners (well, transport planners) is the difference between an airport that is not near a mainline that passes through and one out in the sticks that is not on the way to anywhere.

Examples of the latter are - Heathrow (!!!), Stansted, Bristol (coach transfer), Manchester.

Ones which are conveniently inline are Gatwick, Southampton and Brum.

This means that the last can be served by services that are passing through anyway. It was calculated by Dr (Lord) Mawhinney's report on the Heathrow access that only 10% maximum of HS2 pax would be destined for an airport and so he recommended a shuttle from OOC would do the job.

Nevertheless, airline pax usually have luggage so the difference between asking them to change is whether they view the transfer as a 'people mover' or a new train. Even at Gatwick, one has to get on a people mover to get to the northern terminal.

I don't know what the patterns of access are at Manchester, but doubtless our north west correspondents will have a better idea.

 

[59CosG95]

A point that seems somewhat of a conundrum for rail planners (well, transport planners) is the difference between an airport that is not near a mainline that passes through and one out in the sticks that is not on the way to anywhere.

Examples of the latter are - Heathrow (!!!), Stansted, Bristol (coach transfer), Manchester.

Ones which are conveniently inline are Gatwick, Southampton and Brum.

This means that the last can be served by services that are passing through anyway. It was calculated by Dr (Lord) Mawhinney's report on the Heathrow access that only 10% maximum of HS2 pax would be destined for an airport and so he recommended a shuttle from OOC would do the job.

Nevertheless, airline pax usually have luggage so the difference between asking them to change is whether they view the transfer as a 'people mover' or a new train. Even at Gatwick, one has to get on a people mover to get to the northern terminal.

I don't know what the patterns of access are at Manchester, but doubtless our north west correspondents will have a better idea.

But what about people boarding HS2 at Brum International bound for the city centre? Couldn't the shuttle be extended to Curzon St?

 

[JGR]

Heathrow and Stansted are themselves convenient termini for services to other places of interest en route. The Piccadilly line and Cross Country Birmingham to Stansted services, for example.
Not being on a mainline is not necessarily a problem, as an airport is a destination in its own right to some extent.

 

[snowball]

The Manchester Airport link was authorised by the British Railways Act 1984, though construction didn't start until 1990 or 91. The authorised route included not only the line that now exists, but also a reversing loop which has never been built, and now never will be. It would have continued WSW through the airport station, then curved to the right, crossing the M56 airport spur, and finally merged with the line heading back east towards the Styal line.

If built, it would have allowed through north-south services on the Styal line to be diverted via the airport, and the airport station would not have been cluttered up with trains originating, terminating or reversing.

Today the airport station is primarily a starting and terminating point for trains which run to and from routes all over the north via Manchester Piccadilly.

The station originally had two platforms. A third was added in 2008, and a fourth started construction in about September 2013. This is in addition to the Metrolink platform which started construction in 2011. Future westward extension remains a possibility, both for the Metrolink line and the heavy rail line.

 

[HowardGWR]

The station originally had two platforms. A third was added in 2008, and a fourth started construction in about September 2013. This is in addition to the Metrolink platform which started construction in 2011. Future westward extension remains a possibility, both for the Metrolink line and the heavy rail line.

Thanks very much. I note that HS2 passes within a half mile of the terminal. Is this a case for a people mover or this western extension to link with it? I appreciate that the HS2 line is supposed to be a dead end at Piccadilly and I wonder if the links have been properly thought about?

 

[edwin_m]

Thanks very much. I note that HS2 passes within a half mile of the terminal. Is this a case for a people mover or this western extension to link with it? I appreciate that the HS2 line is supposed to be a dead end at Piccadilly and I wonder if the links have been properly thought about?

Assuming you are referring to Manchester Airport.

A people mover is quite possible. The HS2 station is also quite near a section of Metrolink which was planned but never built, and would have made the Metrolink airport extension loop back to itself near Wythenshawe hospital. Quite possible this will be built to improve access to HS2 from the various parts of southern Manchester that the Metrolink airport route passes through.

However I don't think the heavy rail loop will ever be built - it has probably been blocked by other development and heavy rail will have good interchange with HS2 at Piccadilly. It was probably only ever worthwhile when there were significant numbers of loco-hauled trains, as a MU or push-pull can probably reverse in the station in the length of time it would take to go round the loop.

HS2 as currently planned will have a triangular junction for the Manchester branch, so that trains could run from Piccadilly via the airport station and then turn northwards. There are no plans to do so in service at present (it's mainly to provide access to the depot site near Wigan) but particularly if HS2 is extended from Wigan to Scotland it might be worth running Manchester-Scotland trains that way.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Just a thought, what if the current Leeds Bradford Airport at Yeadon was built in its original intended place at Clifton, Hartshead Moor? (the site is now occupied by a golf course). As Brighouse, Clifton Road closed in the 1930's.

Considering that its half a mile to where the airport would have been, would the railway station at Clifton Road be reopened or would the line been diverted through a tunnel to the site considering that the historic village of Clifton was above so no cut 'n' cover was possible?

 

[PHILIPE]

There are through trains calling at Manchester Airport. The half hourly Manchester Picc to Crewe local trains call there using the triangular Junction at Heald Green. So, in effect, it could be called a through station even if this service has to reverse there.

 

[snowball]

However I don't think the heavy rail loop will ever be built - it has probably been blocked by other development and heavy rail will have good interchange with HS2 at Piccadilly. It was probably only ever worthwhile when there were significant numbers of loco-hauled trains, as a MU or push-pull can probably reverse in the station in the length of time it would take to go round the loop.

I'm sure the loop won't be built, but a westward or south-westward heavy rail extension remains a possibility, to connect with the Mid-Cheshire line.

As Joseph Locke has pointed out, there is space to realign Platform 2 slightly southward, towards Platform 1, and extend those two tracks, narrowly missing the south side of the station building. However a cut-and-cover tunnel would be required under the apron near Terminal 2.

 

[thenorthern]

East Midlands Parkway is a through station but I never get if that was built to serve East Midlands Airport or to serve as an East Midlands Park and Ride station. Luton Airport Parkway is also a through station.

My Uncle was the chief architect for Manchester Airport station, I should ask him why its designed how it is.

 

[swt_passenger]

East Midlands Parkway is a through station but I never get if that was built to serve East Midlands Airport or to serve as an East Midlands Park and Ride station.

The latter. It was not designed as an airport station.

 

[Andyjs247]

But what about people boarding HS2 at Brum International bound for the city centre? Couldn't the shuttle be extended to Curzon St?

Why?? Pax from BHX airport heading to the city centre would do better to travel from International to New Street. It makes no sense to travel out to the HS2 Interchange and then come back to Curzon Street. The transit time to HS2 Interchange is likely to be a further 5-10 minutes. Then there is the frequency - how many tph will there be from Interchange to Curzon Street?

BHM-BHI is 9tph and generally takes 10-16 minutes. Even on a stopper there's no time advantage to using HS2 via a longer route, if going to the centre. Going to HS2 Interchange only makes sense if heading away from Brum.

 

[Lrd]

The half hourly Manchester Picc to Crewe local trains call there using the triangular Junction at Heald Green. So, in effect, it could be called a through station even if this service has to reverse there.

That's a through service using a terminus station though. A through station has tracks that run though the station.

 

[HowardGWR]

That's a through service using a terminus station though. A through station has tracks that run though the station.

I suppose I wasn't being too finicky when I opened the thread, seeing that modern trains are driveable from both ends. It was more the convenience to pax vs the need to change vs the possibility that airport terminating trains will always run with nearly empty coaches for the last stretch, given Mawhinney report findings.

I wonder how full the Stansted ones are after they leave Bishops Stortford? In my neck of the woods, the issue is about running trains from London through from BRI to WSM to which very few pax are destined. In that case, local commuter pax can take up some of the space. With Stansted it could only be airport workers who add to the load?

Edwin_m 's mention of trains to Scotland from Manchester Airport is interesting.

 

[snowball]

Edwin_m 's mention of trains to Scotland from Manchester Airport is interesting.

Those would be HS2 trains from Manchester Piccadilly to Scotland via Manchester Airport (HS2) station.

There are already trains from Manchester Airport to Scotland via Piccadilly.

 

[Spaceflower]

Teesside Airport is a through station.

I'll get my coat.

 

[northwichcat]

A third was added in 2008, and a fourth started construction in about September 2013. This is in addition to the Metrolink platform which started construction in 2011. Future westward extension remains a possibility, both for the Metrolink line and the heavy rail line.

I understand the possible future western link was taken in consideration when considering where to position platforms 3 and 4.

 

[snowball]

I understand the possible future western link was taken in consideration when considering where to position platforms 3 and 4.

Or to be more exact, when placing the third platform (now platform 1) and the fourth platform (to be platform 4).

 

[Greybeard33]

Or to be more exact, when placing the third platform (now platform 1) and the fourth platform (to be platform 4).

As I understand it, the through platforms would be the present Platform 1 (the third to be constructed) and Platform 2. Platform 3 and the not-yet-completed Platform 4 would remain terminal platforms.

The western link features in the Manchester Airport Master Plan to 2030. It would curve south-west, passing under the present apron and cargo area, and join the Mid-Cheshire line between Ashley and Mobberley. It would enable through services to Chester and North Wales, and would also enable services from the north via Manchester to continue in a loop, returning to the WCML via the Hartford chord (and vice-versa).

I guess another possibility might be services to Crewe and Stoke via Northwich and the Middlewich branch to Sandbach, to supplement the present service via Styal and Wilmslow.

 

[snowball]

As I understand it, the through platforms would be the present Platform 3 and the not-yet-completed Platform 4. Platform 1 (the third to be constructed) and Platform 2 would remain terminal platforms.

[Edit: this post is now a bit pointless as Greybeard has edited his post to agree with me.]

I think the station building would be in the way of any direct extension to either the platform 2 or 3 lines (the two original lines). I think the early plan for the reversing loop had been dropped by the time the station building was designed, and the idea of any other western extension had not yet arisen. The original station building is symmetric about a line midway between these two platforms.

I think the link building to the ground transport interchange would be in the way of any extension to the future platform 4 line.

I think any westward heavy rail extension would have to be, as I said above, of the platform 1 line and a slightly diverted version of the platform 2 line.

As for the Metrolink lines, the link building is designed to allow a wall to be demolished to allow their extension to pass through its basement and under the roads in front of the building's west face.

 

[Greybeard33]

I think the station building would be in the way of any direct extension to either the platform 2 or 3 lines (the two original lines). I think the early plan for the reversing loop had been dropped by the time the station building was designed, and the idea of any other western extension had not yet arisen. The original station building is symmetric about a line midway between these two platforms.

I think the link building to the ground transport interchange would be in the way of any extension to the future platform 4 line.

I think any westward heavy rail extension would have to be, as I said above, of the platform 1 line and a slightly diverted version of the platform 2 line.

As for the Metrolink lines, the link building is designed to allow a wall to be demolished to allow their extension to pass through its basement and under the roads in front of the building's west face.

Yes, sorry, I had a memory lapse - I will correct my previous post. I agree that Platforms 1 & 2 (the southernmost ones) would become the through platforms, with the Platform 2 line moved over parallel with that of Platform 1. As you said, the third platform (now 1) was aligned with the western link in mind (hence the current large gap between the tracks).

The Metrolink extension would curve northwards under the link building as you say, crossing the M56 to the site of the proposed HS2 station at Davenport Green.

 

[HowardGWR]

The Metrolink extension would curve northwards under the link building as you say, crossing the M56 to the site of the proposed HS2 station at Davenport Green.

Are there any plans for how the extensions interface with the proposed HS2 Interchange station? The published plan I have (dated Dec 2012) does not mention it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

For the sake of those without knowledge of HS2 timescales, what year seems to be the earliest possible opening date for a HS2 railway station in the Manchester Airport site ?

 

[snowball]

Are there any plans for how the extensions interface with the proposed HS2 Interchange station? The published plan I have (dated Dec 2012) does not mention it.

I don't think the heavy rail extension, if built, would interface directly with HS2.

No plans have been published in recent years for a Metrolink extension, but an old version, showing the once-proposed airport loop, is here. This dates from long before HS2's route was announced.

The Metrolink route currently under construction generally follows the eastern side of the loop shown here from Roundthorn to the airport. If the western side were built in future, the stop shown at Davenport Green would be close to the HS2 station and would doubtless be developed into an interchange, possibly with some modification of the Metrolink route or stop location. There is also a possibility of some sort of people mover between the two airport stations but it's very non-specific at present.

 

[Carlisle]

East Midlands Parkway is a through station but I never get if that was built to serve East Midlands Airport or to serve as an East Midlands Park and Ride station. Luton Airport Parkway is also a through station.

My Uncle was the chief architect for Manchester Airport station, I should ask him why its designed how it is.

I remember hearing quite a few years ago that a rail corridor to Luton airport had been reserved ,I see the present Luton ,East Midlands and Liverpool parkways as cut price compromises relying on bus connections rather than proper integrated airport stations which I know is better than nothing ,but considering the boom in rail travel in the last 20 years it's slightly surprising southend is the only proper airport station constructed since Manchester

 

[snowball]

There's an item on the TPE website about replacement of overnight Manchester Airport - Piccadilly services by buses, for platform 4 works. I think this is the first official admission by any relevant body that platform 4 works have started.

 

[Greybeard33]

I remember hearing quite a few years ago that a rail corridor to Luton airport had been reserved ,I see the present Luton ,East Midlands and Liverpool parkways as cut price compromises relying on bus connections rather than proper integrated airport stations which I know is better than nothing ,but considering the boom in rail travel in the last 20 years it's slightly surprising southend is the only proper airport station constructed since Manchester

In my experience the bus connection between Liverpool South Parkway station and John Lennon Airport is reasonably quick and frequent. South Parkway, being at the confluence of three lines, has the advantage of through services to many destinations in different directions. I think the airport would have to grow a lot to justify an integrated station.

 

[northwichcat]

In my experience the bus connection between Liverpool South Parkway station and John Lennon Airport is reasonably quick and frequent. South Parkway, being at the confluence of three lines, has the advantage of through services to many destinations in different directions. I think the airport would have to grow a lot to justify an integrated station.

I think the worst thing about the bus link is Arriva's policy of having a standard single price for Merseyside (that is expensive for a short journey) and not offering a cheaper period return ticket.

 

[Taunton]

It is surely ridiculous that Crossrail actually passes under the apron of the London City airport, a very busy airport nowadays, but there is no station.

 

[Eagle]

It is surely ridiculous that Crossrail actually passes under the apron of the London City airport, a very busy airport nowadays, but there is no station.

I think the problem there is there's no space to put a station building anywhere. Plus it's not particularly close to the airport terminal.