Aire & Wharfedale Electrification

[Welshman]

As a P.S. to my last post, the direct Leeds to Bradford Forster Square service only came in with the electric service. Electrification led to an internal cascade of the Yorkshire Pacer fleet meaning fewer 2-car Pacers on busy routes such as Calder Valley, with those units pushing the 141s off the end of the cascade. The 141s then spent months parked up at Doncaster (one having a brief revival as the Serco Weedkilling unit) before most were sold to Iran.

Technically, the Leeds-Bradford Forster Square service was revived with electrification. The line was originally quadruple track to Shipley, and saw a local service of trains stopping at places such as Armley, Newlay and Horsforth etc before these intermediate stations closed. Also some Midland trains [or portions] from St Pancras, Bristol, Birmingham, etc, were extended from the original Leeds Wellington platforms to Forster Square.
Back when Adam was nobbut a lad.

 

[themiller]

The project was an alternative to building the Bingley by-pass (which has subsequently been built). If my brain cell remembers correctly WYPTE (or it's equivalent at that time - Metro?) wanted the electrification project as a start to further electrification.

 

[yorksrob]

PTE funding of units was one of the big policy wins of the late 1980s, and we in West Yorkshire did pretty well out of it. I don't think privatisation is the problem with a similar approach now: more that the PTEs have suffered massive cuts in funding due to "austerity".

The PTE's were forced to sell their rolling stock for ideological reasons, which isn't really conducive to further investment.

 

[jayah]

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/features/news_behind/3781225.display/

Has experienced colossal growth - truly the sparks effect - now talking about platform lengthening

Clearly if you buy new trains, improve the service, make journeys quicker and subsidise fares the line will get more popular. Some other lines have seen fantastic growth too - even with none of the above.

 

[Islandexpress]

Interesting thread. I’ve often wondered the same and count myself lucky that these are ‘my lines’. As a regular user I totally agree about the sparks effect. I’ve often heard people say about the 333s as being fast, smooth, quiet etc. My wife who rarely uses other lines had to go to Man Vic the other day and was really moaning about the dirty old ‘Metro Train’ (Pacer) she had to travel in. Problem is the aire/Wharfedale lines are becoming a victim of their own success. Really difficult to park at Shipley, Apperley Bridge Car Park is now known to fill up and the fare cost is now such that parking in Leeds becomes a cheaper alternative at times - this never used to be the case.

 

[30907]

I lived in Cononley 1990-97 - the station had reopened in 1988, Steeton following soon after.
IIRC the DMU service to Skipton was by 1990, 3 TPH (1 BDQ, 2 LDS - with the oddity that not all the down trains could stop at Cononley because of the block sections). The arrival of the 308s in 1994 boosted the service to the present pattern.

The move of London trains from BDI to BDQ was related to ECML electrification, as the prospect of a 47 hauling an electric set over the gradients into Interchange did not appeal - but I am fairly certain that tapping the Leeds NW-London market was factored in.
At the start Shipley Leeds Junction was still single lead, and when Platform 3 was extended it had to have a temporary wooden "infill" section pending track realignment.

 

[Harpers Tate]

It is my recollection that the electrification of these routes was the consequence of pro-active work by WYPTE based on an already hugely increased usage vs. when BR were fully "in charge" of scheduling*. Increased (and projected further increased) use gave a positive business case.

Why Skipton? It seems probable that whilst WYPTE's remit ends completely at Steeton & Silsden, in overall terms an end to the OHLE there or anywhere else intermediate would have been seen as utterly dumb. Skipton was an ideal turning point for practical and business reasons.

As to the use of 308s for a time - my recollection is that:
a) WYPTE were well enough funded and happy to pay for new units, but
b) any new stock deal required guarantees that repayments would continue for a long time.....and whilst
c) WYPTE themselves were quite happy with the arrangement and to give such an undertaking.......
d) nobody in the Government would offer any kind of guarantee that the PTEs themselves would remain in place for the long term. So......
e) the new train supplier wanted guarantees that IF (and only if) the PTE ceased to exist and was therefore unable to fulfil its own obligation, the guarantor (the Government) would do so, and
f) the Government (who were, let's remember, were not being asked for money; just a guarantee against the consequences of their own actions) refused and so.....
g) new trains were not procured.

Don't you just love politics?

========================
* Under BRs stewardship, pre-WYPTE, the base daytime service pattern on these routes was 1x hourly Bradford <> Ilkley and 1x per hour Leeds <> Guiseley only, with the intention that Leeds <> Ilkley traffic would connect at the desolate, unmanned and unsheltered halt that was Guiseley. One can only guess at what part of BR of the day saw Leeds traffic as being the half of this route most deserving of such inconvenience; the closure by stealth division, of course, tasked with driving usage down. Along comes WYPTE, restores regular through serves both ways, and the rest, as they say, is history.

 

[Ploughman]

No opinions on the provisions of stock or what went on in local government departments.
All I know is it kept me busy on the ground for about 4 years.

Track slews on the Baildon line.
Esholt Junction remodelling and doubling through Springs Tunnel.
Guiseley S+C removed.
Greenbottom Tunnel.
Menston track lowering.
Shipley East / Dockfield Remodelling.
Frizinghall track lowering.
Bradford FS Platform alterations.
Bingley Tunnel lowering.
Bingley Station track lowering.
Dowley Gap track slew.
Keighley Track lowering.
Cononley bridge replacement.
Skipton remodelling.
Installation of 500 plus Block joints between Leeds and Hellifield
Removal of 600 plus Block joints between Leeds and Hellifield.
Vegetation clearance on all lines involved.

 

[Darren R]

London to Bradford services transferred to Forster Square from October 1988.

The basic off-peak timetable under BR prior to then was hourly between Bradford Forster Square and Keighley, and hourly from Forster Square to Guiseley. This was a cost cutting exercise, and meant that just two units were needed to provide the service. From Leeds it was hourly to Ilkley and hourly to Skipton (or north thereof.) From May 1987 an extra train per hour was introduced between Leeds and Skipton - but only on Saturdays! Sundays saw a basic one train every two hours on all routes.

 

[edwin_m]

I do agree that Leeds-York would have been a wiser choice for electrification.

Assuming you mean the direct route, few electric trains would have used Leeds-York because most of them continued beyond Leeds on lines that weren't (and still aren't) electrified. The most that would have been expected would be an hourly shuttle and a few East Coast trains essentially for stock positioning at each end of the day.

BR was pretty good at forecasting demand and costs, so I imagine the choice of Airedale/Wharfedale rather than Harrogate, and stopping at Skipton rather than anywhere else, was based on sound evidence.

 

[backontrack]

Assuming you mean the direct route, few electric trains would have used Leeds-York because most of them continued beyond Leeds on lines that weren't (and still aren't) electrified. The most that would have been expected would be an hourly shuttle and a few East Coast trains essentially for stock positioning at each end of the day.

Electrification of the York and Selby line would have enabled electric services from London to Glasgow via Leeds, for one thing.

 

[Grumpy]

Electrification of the York and Selby line would have enabled electric services from London to Glasgow via Leeds, for one thing.

Which would have added 40 minutes to the journey times

 

[backontrack]

Which would have added 40 minutes to the journey times

But would have also added stops at Wakefield and Leeds.

I'm not suggesting that all services would have run by this route, by all means. But it would have been useful.

 

[xotGD]

But would have also added stops at Wakefield and Leeds.

I'm not suggesting that all services would have run by this route, by all means. But it would have been useful.

Passengers from Wakey and Leeds already have direct services to Scotland courtesy of Cross Country.

 

[randyrippley]

As a P.S. to my last post, the direct Leeds to Bradford Forster Square service only came in with the electric service. .................

Not true.......some (at least) of the Leeds - Morecambe DMU trips in the 1980's/90's were routed via Forster Square with a reversal

 

[Bantamzen]

I do agree that Leeds-York would have been a wiser choice for electrification.

Leeds-York should maybe have been done as part of the ECML programme I agree, but as WYPTE funded the Aire and Wharfe sparks it made far more sense for them to serve a more populated area than the east of Leeds.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'm not suggesting that all services would have run by this route, by all means. But it would have been useful.

It would have been very useful as a diversionary route, definitely. But not for ECML services. XC services were HSTs and 47s at the time, and RR(NE) had just got a big fleet of brand new 158s for York-Manchester expresses.

Diverting via Leeds adds at least 45 minutes to the journey time. I can see why BR didn't do it.

 

[deltic08]

Assuming you mean the direct route, few electric trains would have used Leeds-York because most of them continued beyond Leeds on lines that weren't (and still aren't) electrified. The most that would have been expected would be an hourly shuttle and a few East Coast trains essentially for stock positioning at each end of the day.

BR was pretty good at forecasting demand and costs, so I imagine the choice of Airedale/Wharfedale rather than Harrogate, and stopping at Skipton rather than anywhere else, was based on sound evidence.

Harrogate Loop electrification was included in the original plan but I cannot remember why it was ditched in the end.

 

[deltic08]

Passengers from Wakey and Leeds already have direct services to Scotland courtesy of Cross Country.

Not when Leeds NW electrification was being considered. Then services from Wakefield and Leeds to Glasgow went via Carlisle.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Harrogate Loop electrification was included in the original plan but I cannot remember why it was ditched in the end.

Think it was considered as a follow-on rather than originally being part of the same project. Harrogate though has several tunnels and structures that would need significant work.
The next medium/large rail project managed by WYPTE was reopening the line through Brighouse to passengers. This also suffered cost overruns leading to Elland station not being provided.

 

[deltic08]

Think it was considered as a follow-on rather than originally being part of the same project. Harrogate though has several tunnels and structures that would need significant work.

That is what Harrogate Chamber and Harrogate Council thought and went for dc groundrail and redundant LUL stock a few years ago before Metro came down in favour of 25kv to Horsforth. Of course they didn't check measurements first.
The viaducts are just the same as any other viaducts that have been wired and the tunnels are generous with 25 feet crown to formation even at the shotcrete bulge towards the south end of Bramhope Tunnel.
The feasibility study BCR came out at 3.67 and costed at £99m for 61 single track miles. Existing feeder stations at each end would be used. The plan was to install straight after completion of trans Pennine electrification about 2022, but that has gone out of the window now. Cascade of DMUs from Scotland has helped put the boot into electrification also.

 

[30907]

Not true.......some (at least) of the Leeds - Morecambe DMU trips in the 1980's/90's were routed via Forster Square with a reversal

One each way on Summer Saturdays. And Sundays possibly?