Aire & Wharfedale Electrification

[Allwinter_Kit]

I've been wondering for a while how this seemingly random commuter route came to be a (relatively) isolated little pocket of electrified railway. Why was it wired - does anyone know?

I had a search through various threads and I couldn't find either the answer or an appropriate thread to ask in! Apologies if it has been covered before - it just strikes me as an odd choice. Why electrify Leeds - Skipton (and why Skipton as an end point?) as opposed to, say, Leeds - York or doubtless many other relatively short spurs off the ECML?

 

[backontrack]

I've been wondering for a while how this seemingly random commuter route came to be a (relatively) isolated little pocket of electrified railway. Why was it wired - does anyone know?

I had a search through various threads and I couldn't find either the answer or an appropriate thread to ask in! Apologies if it has been covered before - it just strikes me as an odd choice. Why electrify Leeds - Skipton (and why Skipton as an end point?) as opposed to, say, Leeds - York or doubtless many other relatively short spurs off the ECML?

I do agree that Leeds-York would have been a wiser choice for electrification.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

IIRC as I was and still am a big proponent of electrification, I followed the progress intensely during the 1980s and 1990s. The Conservative government of the day -especially under Thatcher was OK with it as long as BR paid for it out of their own money and it improved efficiency. Privatization got in the way or I am sure there would have been more. In those days, the government got their guidance from BR suggestions and at the time it released/removed a lot of diesel working and improved the efficiency. I will try and dig a little more into it - there was IIRC a Modern Railways write up about the scheme.
You also would need to look at the traffic patterns back then and not what they are now. I must admit I thought at the time, Leeds -York would have been more beneficial for an ECML diversionary route and also to allow Leeds- Edinburgh/Glasgow to be all electric. I will try and di out some references for you.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Why electrify Leeds - Skipton (and why Skipton as an end point?) as opposed to, say, Leeds - York or doubtless many other relatively short spurs off the ECML?

Other short spurs off the ECML were electrified in the same scheme too (e.g. North Berwick, Hitchin-Shelford). I'd agree that Neville Hill-Colton Junction should have been done when the ECML was done.

Why the Airedale and Wharfedale lines? They're busy lines but they're self-contained. And they were generally fairly easy to electrify, with only a couple of earthworks (Thackley tunnel, mainly) being needed. The Harrogate line would have required a lot of work, especially Bramhope tunnel, and the Bradford Interchange line wasn't self-contained. Skipton has always been the end of the commuter network from Leeds.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

--- or doubtless many other relatively short spurs off the ECML?

Yes I remember (?? Modern Railways??) suggesting Doncaster -Sheffield so that Sheffield would at least have an electric service to London before MML electrification.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Why the Airedale and Wharfedale lines? They're busy lines but they're self-contained. And they were generally fairly easy to electrify, with only a couple of earthworks (Thackley tunnel, mainly) being needed. The Harrogate line would have required a lot of work, especially Bramhope tunnel, and the Bradford Interchange line wasn't self-contained. Skipton has always been the end of the commuter network from Leeds.

Yes you are jogging my memory now - self contained and not a lot of heavy civil engineering works - thanks for that.

 

[snowball]

Other short spurs off the ECML were electrified in the same scheme too (e.g. North Berwick, Hitchin-Shelford).

Hitchin to Royston was prt of the original Great Northeren Suburban Electrification circa 1976. You may be thinking of Royston-Shelford (the date of which I forget but after Bishops Stotford to Cambridge).

 

[eastwestdivide]

Looking at a timetable from 1978, a long way before electrification, the basic off-peak service was
1 per hour Leeds-Skipton (some of which continued to the Carnforth/Morecambe line),
1 per hour Leeds-Ilkley,
1 per hour Bradford-Ilkley,
plus less frequent Bradford-Keighley (some connecting with Carlisle/Morecambe services), and the occasional Leeds-Settle-Carlisle service.
No Leeds-Bradford FS as far as I can see - even the London-Bradford trains went via New Pudsey to Bradford Exchange.
Does anyone have a later diesel operated timetable?
Was the diesel service more frequent in the late 80s/early 90s as West Yorkshire made investments and opened more stations?

 

[hwl]

Yes you are jogging my memory now - self contained and not a lot of heavy civil engineering works - thanks for that.

Also the then Chancellor's train service home from Leeds...

 

[GRALISTAIR]

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/features/news_behind/3781225.display/

Has experienced colossal growth - truly the sparks effect - now talking about platform lengthening

 

[backontrack]

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/features/news_behind/3781225.display/

Has experienced colossal growth - truly the sparks effect - now talking about platform lengthening

And there may be a station at Crosshills/Kildwick/Glusburn...

 

[bramling]

I've been wondering for a while how this seemingly random commuter route came to be a (relatively) isolated little pocket of electrified railway. Why was it wired - does anyone know?

I had a search through various threads and I couldn't find either the answer or an appropriate thread to ask in! Apologies if it has been covered before - it just strikes me as an odd choice. Why electrify Leeds - Skipton (and why Skipton as an end point?) as opposed to, say, Leeds - York or doubtless many other relatively short spurs off the ECML?

Overcrowding on short DMU formations, and able to make a business case for electrification tagging onto the back of Leeds station being electrified as part of the ECML project? I'm not sure if using the 308s was part of the original business case or if this was done to make it affordable.

 

[driver_m]

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/features/news_behind/3781225.display/

Has experienced colossal growth - truly the sparks effect - now talking about platform lengthening

I remember someone on here who shall remain nameless questioning me on "the sparks effect" saying it didnt exist! She got that one very wrong.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Also the then Chancellor's train service home from Leeds...

Now surely you are not suggesting that politics plays a role? Lordy Lordy

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/features/news_behind/3781225.display/

Shame they binned the planned turnback at Keighley! That was quite a neat solution really - I suppose the BCR didn't stack up?

Although how are they planning to run 2x3 331s on the current all shacks Skipton service if they don't fit on the platforms 'due to the track layout' - potentially too serious for SDO....

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I remember someone on here who shall remain nameless questioning me on "the sparks effect" saying it didnt exist! She got that one very wrong.

Indeed. When Roger Ford appeared before the WAG Transport Select Committee on the Cardiff- Swansea electrification cancellation, he mentioned how the Sparks Effect was well proven AND documented !

 

[snowball]

I remember someone on here who shall remain nameless questioning me on "the sparks effect" saying it didnt exist! She got that one very wrong.

Well, it's not limited to electric trains. With HSTs it was called "the nosecone effect".

 

[Bantamzen]

Wasn't the programme for the Aire and Wharfe sparks partly funded by WY Metro?

 

[Darren R]

My recollection (possibly erroneous after all these years) is that the Airedale and Wharfedale electrification was a scheme driven and funded locally by West Yorkshire PTE rather than a Central Government plan.

(Beaten to It!)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Overcrowding on short DMU formations, and able to make a business case for electrification tagging onto the back of Leeds station being electrified as part of the ECML project? I'm not sure if using the 308s was part of the original business case or if this was done to make it affordable.

The plan was for 308s (or other surplus units from GE) as a stop-gap until 323s could be built locally by Hunslet-TPL once the Birmingham and Manchester orders were completed: a bit like how the 307s filled in on Doncasters until BREL had capacity to build the last 3 321s for West Yorkshire. Not quite sure how those plans went awry, but it resulted in Hunslet-TPL closing down and the 308s sticking around for longer than planned. Privatisation probably played a role in just how long the 308s were in use, they were held together with gaffer tape and hope by the end!

 

[Mollman]

Looking at a timetable from 1978, a long way before electrification, the basic off-peak service was
1 per hour Leeds-Skipton (some of which continued to the Carnforth/Morecambe line),
1 per hour Leeds-Ilkley,
1 per hour Bradford-Ilkley,
plus less frequent Bradford-Keighley (some connecting with Carlisle/Morecambe services), and the occasional Leeds-Settle-Carlisle service.
No Leeds-Bradford FS as far as I can see - even the London-Bradford trains went via New Pudsey to Bradford Exchange.
Does anyone have a later diesel operated timetable?
Was the diesel service more frequent in the late 80s/early 90s as West Yorkshire made investments and opened more stations?

Yes, it was a prime Pacer route in the late 80s / early 90s plus new stations opened at Frizinghall, Cross Flats etc. Think the timetable was similar to current in terms of off-peak pattern but obviously slower journeys. Original plan was for class 323s to be built for the electrifcation scheme however impeding privertisation led to the cancellation of that order and the arrival of cast offs from down south - class 308s I remember but there may have been other types too.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As a P.S. to my last post, the direct Leeds to Bradford Forster Square service only came in with the electric service. Electrification led to an internal cascade of the Yorkshire Pacer fleet meaning fewer 2-car Pacers on busy routes such as Calder Valley, with those units pushing the 141s off the end of the cascade. The 141s then spent months parked up at Doncaster (one having a brief revival as the Serco Weedkilling unit) before most were sold to Iran.

 

[Grumpy]

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/features/news_behind/3781225.display/

Has experienced colossal growth - truly the sparks effect - now talking about platform lengthening

In reality more a reflection of the ongoing large scale housing development, which combined with zero road spending makes driving through the likes of Shipley and Guiseley a nightmare. Replacing the Pacers with a better DMU such as the 166 or 170 would probably have resulted in just as much growth.

 

[bluenoxid]

And there may be a station at Crosshills/Kildwick/Glusburn...

Probably not. Long grassed again just recently.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Probably not. Long grassed again just recently.

Yet Leeds City Council persist with the stupid White Rose Centre station idea. I'd like to be at the meeting where they bring that up with the Network Rail route managers!

 

[bluenoxid]

Or Millshaw as they are trying to market it as at the moment.

I’m ambivalent!

 

[yorksrob]

I always think it's a shame that the Harrogate loop wasn't electrified as well as it would have been a decent sized electrified suburban network centred on Leeds.

The 308's were great to commute on though !

 

[aylesbury]

I believe that the 308,s had braking problems and when arriving at stations it was a case crossed toes and fingers in the hope they would stop in time!

 

[Ianigsy]

Electrifying to Bradford also allowed the Bradford-Kings Cross service to be electric throughout rather than diesel hauled to Interchange, eliminating a pocket of Class 47 working for the IC sector and giving Shipley a through London service.

My understanding is that the Class 144 centre cars were built as a follow on for the Skipton and Ilkley lines once it was realised just how popular the improved service with new trains was. WYPTE were very proactive at the time in placing follow on orders for small batches of Classes 155, 158 and 321 but it's a way of doing things which doesn't really work with the post privatisation leasing system.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Electrifying to Bradford also allowed the Bradford-Kings Cross service to be electric throughout rather than diesel hauled to Interchange, eliminating a pocket of Class 47 working for the IC sector and giving Shipley a through London service.

My understanding is that the Class 144 centre cars were built as a follow on for the Skipton and Ilkley lines once it was realised just how popular the improved service with new trains was. WYPTE were very proactive at the time in placing follow on orders for small batches of Classes 155, 158 and 321 but it's a way of doing things which doesn't really work with the post privatisation leasing system.

The switch to Forster Square happened long before the Airedale electrification programme, not sure of exactly when but it may have been prior to ECML wiring even. 47 haulage to Forster Square was the norm for a while, but there was also a period of HSTs being used, again to BDQ rather than BDI.

PTE funding of units was one of the big policy wins of the late 1980s, and we in West Yorkshire did pretty well out of it. I don't think privatisation is the problem with a similar approach now: more that the PTEs have suffered massive cuts in funding due to "austerity".