Airdrie-Bathgate service

[Nightrider]

Why would they?
There is little or no point advertising something that has not yet commenced
Equally, if they did advertise there would always be some "person" that would turn up expecting it to be running...

Expect the publicity machine to commence in the two weeks prior to commencement of service, with items in the local press and leaflet drop
Equally, I understand one of the main newspapers will be including vouchers equivalent to the fare between Airdrie and Bathgate, for the Sunday, so that people can travel on the service for "free"

True enough, time yet for for the line to establish itself.

Slightly bemused by the price of a return ticket from Airdrie to Bathgate.

Off peak day return £19.40

hock:

 

[route:oxford]

It will be interesting when it opens.

Will passengers go for the new smooth, quiet electric service, or go for the noisier but quicker diesel service...

How is the EBAG route compared to the EFG route for tunnels and cuttings?

If the journey takes slightly longer, but has fewer mobile black spots, daily commuters could potentially migrate over in order to get more work done using dongles whilst travelling to&from work...
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Slightly bemused by the price of a return ticket from Airdrie to Bathgate.

Off peak day return £19.40

hock:

Sounds like the new fares haven't been loaded into the system, that fare will still be working on the basis that passengers are travelling the long way round via Weegieland & Haymarket.

 

[Nightrider]

There is now more chance of a rail link to Glasgow Airport...

Strange to still see the odd motorist slow down in Hope St and try to turn right into the now closed Central Carriage Driveway.

Which leaves you thinking, wonder when they last drove up there.

 

[rail-britain]

Slightly bemused by the price of a return ticket from Airdrie to Bathgate
Off peak day return £19.40

The fares haven't been loaded on to the system yet, they still assume travel via Glasgow Queen Street and Haymarket

 

[route101]

Certainly for anybody living in the East End of Glasgow the A2B line must be a boon when travelling to anywhere east of Airdrie.
An example would be rail users living say near Shettleston station wishing to go to Edinburgh.
Do they take the train west all the way into GQS to travel on the Inter City or do they just travel on the first train going east.
If there is any longterm downside to this it might well the Glasgow/Edinburgh inter city.
Why would a Partick/Edinburgh passenger bother changing at Queen St when you then lose time waiting for the next Edinburgh train.
The biggest surprise of all is the number of local people who have never heard of this new line.

Dont know if many people from Shettleston have actually been to Edinburgh
I can see lots of people going from Partick / Hyndlnad to Edinburgh.
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It will be interesting when it opens.

Will passengers go for the new smooth, quiet electric service, or go for the noisier but quicker diesel service...

How is the EBAG route compared to the EFG route for tunnels and cuttings?

If the journey takes slightly longer, but has fewer mobile black spots, daily commuters could potentially migrate over in order to get more work done using dongles whilst travelling to&from work...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Sounds like the new fares haven't been loaded into the system, that fare will still be working on the basis that passengers are travelling the long way round via Weegieland & Haymarket.

As for comfort the 170s are way more comfortable than 334s . You have open windows on the 334s and not for long distances.

 

[Bittern]

Dont know if many people from Shettleston have actually been to Edinburgh

Edinburgh is to them Unicorns are to us. Very horny.

Or a myth. One of the two.

 

[me123]

I wonder where the "tipping point" on this route will be, for people to use this route and not changing to go via Falkirk.

At the east end, I think anyone from West Lothian (Uphall, Livi, Bathgate) would use this new route without question. I can't imagine much use from Edinburgh Park (hardly a residential area).

However, at the west end, where does the hassle of travelling west into Queen Street and changing trains outweigh the faster journey time?

Looking at the journey times, from the West End I don't think there'll be much benefit changing at Queen Street. You'd be just as well staying on the same train, so you won't risk missing a tight connection, and there's only a few minutes in it! I reckon you'll start to see more people from the West of Glasgow staying on the trains and going through to Edinburgh whereas they would previously have made a change. Indeed, perhaps even Charing Cross (a very well used commuter station) would attract some Edinburgh commuters!

Actually, I reckon Edinburgh Park will be well used, although more so in the long run. There are a lot of businesses in the area, and I think over time you'll see people choosing to commute to this station from Armadale, Airdrie, Coatbridge... and potentially even from Glasgow (as the existing E-G services don't stop there). Glasgow-Edinburgh Park currently requires a change at Linlithgow or Polmont (and only half of the E-G services stop at these two stations).
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OK guys, the timetables are now available for viewing on the East Coast journey planner, which gives a better idea of the calling patterns, frequency and destination of the services. However, the new stations aren't on the site yet, and neither are the fares.

 

[rail-britain]

The biggest surprise of all is the number of local people who have never heard of this new line

There are articles in this weeks Glasgow East End local papers covering the opening of the line
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the timetables are now available for viewing on the East Coast journey planner

Unable to find the "complete timetables", but the times for Airdrie and Bathgate are available
The timetable is still under review and is still be confirmed

 

[Bittern]

The new stations have been added to the NR Enquires journey planner.

 

[me123]

Note the new station codes (from the above):

Caldercruix: CAC
Blackridge: BKR
Armadale: ARM

However, no journey planner details are available on that site yet, and netierh East Coast nor Scotrail has the stations in its system as of yet.
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Times are now available on East Coast, which gives a better idea of the stopping pattern. The station names aren't uploaded yet, but the times are. Fares still aren't available yet.

Journey times on the new stretch are as follows;
Airdrie-Drumgelloch: 3 mins
Drumgelloch-Caldercruix: 4 mins
Caldercruix-Blackridge: 6 mins
Blackridge-Armadale: 4 mins
Armadale-Bathgate: 4 mins
Airdrie-Bathgate (all stops): 21 mins
Airdrie-Bathgate (Drumgelloch only): 15 mins

Services out of Queen Street Low Level will leave as follows:
xx:02&32 to Springburn (all stops)
xx:12&42 to Airdrie (all stops)
xx:24&54 to Edinburgh (High St, Coatbridge Sunnyside, Airdrie, Drumgelloch, Bathgate, all stops to Edinburgh)
xx:28&58 to Edinburgh (all stops)

At no point is this ever the fastest service between the two cities.

In the evening, Glasgow-Edinburgh departures are at xx:00 and xx:30, exactly the same time as the main line departures via Falkirk.

 

[CarterUSM]

Out of interest, what is the mileage on this new route from Queen st to waverley? Is it shorter in distance than via shotts?

 

[rob-of-the-roc]

Posters have opined on whether travellers from the West will change at Glasgow Queen Street or not. At the moment, there is a 5 minute connection out of the Helensburgh service and a 6 minute one out of the Balloch. Knowing that I would be one of the last getting on the Edinburgh service, and perhaps not sitting at all, I will be for staying on the Low Level service train. All it would take is for the incoming service to run a minute late, or congestion in Queen Street station and the connection is missed. The resulting extra 15 minutes wait would equate to the extra time taken on the new service.

With regard to the distances, an old copy of Bradshaws gives the following:
Via Falkirk (High) - 47¼ miles
via Shotts - 46¼ miles
via Bathgate - 44¼ miles

 

[reb0118]

Any thoughts on what the Engineers Line Reference (ELR) will be? Newbridge Jn to Bathgate is NBE (Newbridge jn - BathgatE) & Helensburgh Ctl to Drumgelloch is NEM (North Electric Main).

With regard to the mileposts both the NEM from Glasgow & the Bathgate branch are miled from High Street (Glasgow).

 

[tbtc]

How do the departures from Edinburgh compare with the "Falkirk High" service?

 

[MCR247]

deleted

 

[me123]

Posters have opined on whether travellers from the West will change at Glasgow Queen Street or not. At the moment, there is a 5 minute connection out of the Helensburgh service and a 6 minute one out of the Balloch. Knowing that I would be one of the last getting on the Edinburgh service, and perhaps not sitting at all, I will be for staying on the Low Level service train. All it would take is for the incoming service to run a minute late, or congestion in Queen Street station and the connection is missed. The resulting extra 15 minutes wait would equate to the extra time taken on the new service.

Whilst I don't see any benefits of using the service City Centre-City Centre, it's obvious that there's not much benefit in changing onto the Falkirk High service. The connection is risky and the benefits are negligible. Partick, Milngavie, Dumbarton and Helensburgh-Edinburgh passengers would be sensible to remain on the direct train.

That said, most people aren't sensible. I reckon (at least in the first few weeks) that a lot of people will continue to risk the connection for the sake of a few minutes all because "the main service is faster" or "because it stops less".
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How do the departures from Edinburgh compare with the "Falkirk High" service?

Being Glasgow based, I forgot about the Capital

Departures from Edinburgh to Glasgow Queen Street are (approximately) as follows:

xx:00 Express via Falkirk, a xx:49
xx:07 limited stop via Airdrie, a xy:13
xx:15 Express via Falkirk, a xy:06
xx:21 local via Airdrie a xy:37
xx:30 Express via Falkirk, a xy:19
xx:37 limited stop via Airdrie, a xy:43
xx:45 Express via Falkirk, a xy:37
xx:48 local via Airdrie a xz:07
(services arriving xy arrive in the next hour, xz arrive in the hour after that)

Once again, the fastest option city centre-city centre will be on the existing services via Falkirk.

However, because of the service frequency through Queen Street Low Level, it may sometimes be beneficial to use the main line and change at Queen Street. Moreso in this direction than Eastbound.

 

[Nightrider]

With regard to the distances, an old copy of Bradshaws gives the following:
Via Falkirk (High) - 47¼ miles
via Shotts - 46¼ miles
via Bathgate - 44¼ miles

A couple of miles between the three routes.
Shows you how deceiving maps can be.

 

[Bittern]

Journey times between the new stations are now available on the NRE Journey planner.
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SCOTLAND’S NEWEST RAILWAY LINE GOES LIVE.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Looks good for being ontime. I do hope the line is a massive success, and I hope it proves to everyone in Britain that rail can be successful, and this has already been proved with EbbwVale, Alloa etc.

 

[me123]

I think this will go one step further than previous reopenings, though, because it links two very important cities and a number of significant towns along its route. It will open up jobs, university places, and leisure facilities to hundreds of thousands of people and provide a viable alternative to the M8.

There is no doubt in my mind that this will be a success from the first day of operation.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

because it links two very important cities and a number of significant towns along its route. It will open up jobs, university places, and leisure facilities to hundreds of thousands of people

I'm sure tonnes of other potential reopenings could say this: Skipton-Colne, Luton-Dunstable, Leigh-Manchester. Maybe its because these three are in England that it'll never occur

 

[Greenback]

With the greatest of respect to Skipton and Colne, they don't have the population of Glasgow and Edinburgh!

One of the great benefits of Airdrie to bathgate is that it makes accessing Edinburgh easier for Airdrie, and accessing Glasgow easier for Bathgate.

 

[reb0118]

With the greatest of respect to Skipton and Colne, they don't have the population of Glasgow and Edinburgh!

One of the great benefits of Airdrie to bathmat is that it makes accessing Edinburgh easier for Airdrie, and accessing Glasgow easier for Bathgate.

I would tend to agree but should we not compare Skipton & Colne with Bathgate & Airdrie NOT Edinburgh & Glasgow. A stand alone service between Skipton & Colne is not being proposed but through working from Bradford/Leeds via Skipton, Colne, & Burnley to Blackburn & Preston (dare I say it extend the wires right through?)

I wish SELRAP well in their endeavors.

If the Bathgate - Airdrie scheme is a success then this will no doubt help to show that other similar projects will be too.

 

[tbtc]

With the greatest of respect to Skipton and Colne, they don't have the population of Glasgow and Edinburgh!

Couldn't have put it better myself!

A better comparison in England might be Manchester/ Dinting to Penistone/ Sheffield (or "The Woodhead Route" as most people will know it). A link between two large metropolitan areas with commuters/ universities/ leisure flows, which would take some pressure off a crowded existing service (in this case the Manchester - Hope Valley - Sheffield line).

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Couldn't have put it better myself!

A better comparison in England might be Manchester/ Dinting to Penistone/ Sheffield (or "The Woodhead Route" as most people will know it). A link between two large metropolitan areas with commuters/ universities/ leisure flows, which would take some pressure off a crowded existing service (in this case the Manchester - Hope Valley - Sheffield line).

But the point is that SELRAP have been campaigning for years for its reopening, and except for about 200yds under a flat car park at colne, isn't built on at all. As well as this, it would provide another trans-Pennine link, as well of linking the towns of Leeds, Blackburn, Preston and Blackpool (total population about 750,000) and smaller towns like Skipton, Burnley and Accrington (100,000) with places like Darwen, Clitheroe, Bolton and Bradford all within one change of it (450,000), so would easily link over 1,000,000 together, and the current Blackpool North-York trains are already full and standing from Preston, so extra trains are desperately needed

 

[me123]

Aye, Skipton-Colne is one of the ones in England that would really benefit from reopening. I'm not too familiar with the area, but it doesn't take long to see what benefits would come about from such a simple (and relatively cheap) reopening. And, of course, there will be dozens more up and down the country.

The problem is that so many links are in the North and, quite frankly, no-one in power seems to care about the North of England. Which is criminal and unacceptable, but nevertheless will prove a barrier to the rail reopenings.

(Now, a similar link in the South East would probably be built in record time, but I digress...)

 

[tbtc]

But the point is that SELRAP have been campaigning for years for its reopening, and except for about 200yds under a flat car park at colne, isn't built on at all. As well as this, it would provide another trans-Pennine link, as well of linking the towns of Leeds, Blackburn, Preston and Blackpool (total population about 750,000) and smaller towns like Skipton, Burnley and Accrington (100,000) with places like Darwen, Clitheroe, Bolton and Bradford all within one change of it (450,000), so would easily link over 1,000,000 together, and the current Blackpool North-York trains are already full and standing from Preston, so extra trains are desperately needed

?

There is a train every hour between Leeds, Bradford, Burnley, Accrington, Blackburn, Preston and Blackpool - wouldn't it be a lot easier to build additional capacity for that route, rather than building a new railway line?

There are some things that need attention (like a direct train from Burnley to Manchester, additional capacity on existing services), but nobody has convinced me a new transpennine route would be a good use of resources, especially when you are now talking about electrifying it!

 

[reb0118]

Couldn't have put it better myself!

A better comparison in England might be Manchester/ Dinting to Penistone/ Sheffield (or "The Woodhead Route" as most people will know it). A link between two large metropolitan areas with commuters/ universities/ leisure flows, which would take some pressure off a crowded existing service (in this case the Manchester - Hope Valley - Sheffield line).

I support this attempt as well. It was criminal to close it in the first place. Long after the Beeching cuts - where was the foresight?

Anyway it comes down to money. I think rail openings should be paid for by the government in the same way roads are built and/or upgraded. In essence a level playing field. Governments recoup the capital expenditure over the long term through the increase in taxation that occurs with the new business, housing, & employment that follows in the wake of better transport links.

Maybe I'm being naive - but we can all dream.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Aye, Skipton-Colne is one of the ones in England that would really benefit from reopening.

. . . .

The problem is that so many links are in the North and, quite frankly, no-one in power seems to care about the North of England. Which is criminal and unacceptable,

I guess I'd probably make the same point, but would use different terms. The emphasis is traditionally to provide rail services between London and everywhere else. Consequently, rail links running East West have been poor in the North, and North-South have been poor in the West (forgive the simplification to illustrate the principle).
What I find to be "criminal and unnacceptable" is the need to provide effective rail transport within regions (irrespective of their linkages to/from London).
This distinction is excellently illustrated by the Airdie-Bathgate opening, which, before pre-Scottish self Governance, I doubt the DfT would have pursued.

 

[MadCommuter]

Going back on topic, I shall miss the 334 s on the Hamilton Circle, but longer trains will be much welcomed, albeit 318s.