Airdrie-Bathgate service

[MidnightFlyer]

Aye a realise that now and swiftly ammended my post.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



Ive been to the ewood arms never again!

That the pub at the end of a massive triangle in the middle of the road?

On the subject of pubs in Blackburn - The Aqueduct, just a minute's walk upo the road from suspected pub is a Rangers pub, whilst the Havelock, underneath the Blackburn-Mill Hill rail line bridge is Celtic... allegedly!

 

[Bittern]

As long as this line can get them from A - B, I doubt Bellgrovers (or anyone) will complain too much.

 

[rail-britain]

A little aside, but there has been some debate about what the first "train" would be on the route
Clearly it was going to be something to do with the completion of the rail route, prior to passenger carrying services (I use that term as clearly there will be at least three special services before passenger timetabled services commence)

I appreciate some Class 66s now have covered the route, but it has been at walking pace with various ballast vehicles

Here is what we have so far :
Tuesday 07 September
16:10 to 20:00
Radio Survey
Class 31 NR

Wednesday 08 September
16:10 to 20:00
Radio Survey
Class 31 NR

 

[reb0118]

I have always been surprised Dumbreck isn't extraordinarily busy on match days at ibrox, though it is noticeably busier to be honest. It certainly isn't far away.

Don't let my wee secret oot o' the bag - although I sumtimes use yon Cardonald Station before heading to the bowling club before the match.

 

[CarterUSM]

It'll be hell of a busy a week on thursday with the popes visit! Paisley canal services suspended for the day to allow shuttling of 'pilgrims' to the site. Motherwell-Cumbernauld service is also suspended to allow use of the unit for strengthening!

 

[me123]

Out of curiosity, will the Dumbreck Shuttle services be all 156s, or will there be some EMUs as well? (Given that the line is electrified to Corkerhill).

 

[CarterUSM]

I thought they would have used some emu's but apparently not. Diesels all the way.

 

[Bittern]

That's a wee bit of a waste, isn't it?

 

[rail-britain]

That's a wee bit of a waste, isn't it?

What exactly?

 

[Bittern]

Well if they're running diesels on a section of the line that's completely electrified, would it not make more sense to use an EMU or two instead of just DMUs?

 

[rail-britain]

If there are enough spare EMUs, then yes
You then have to make sure there are enough drivers

In this instance there are not enough drivers trained for EMUs on this route, so the usual form of traction approved for the route has to be used
Sacraficing the rolling stock for Motherwell - Cumbernauld (one class 156) is the easiest solution

 

[CarterUSM]

I think they will all be out strengthening other services. Dumbreck cannot take a 6 car emu either, but it'll take a 4 car sprinter no bother. Not sure that DOO passenger services are permitted either due to agreements with unions, but i'm sure it wouldn't stop them.
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If there are enough spare EMUs, then yes
You then have to make sure there are enough drivers

In this instance there are not enough drivers trained for EMUs on this route, so the usual form of traction approved for the route has to be used
Sacraficing the rolling stock for Motherwell - Cumbernauld (one class 156) is the easiest solution

That is not quite true, almost every driver in central, corkerhill, shields, ayr, and motherwell signs the route and electric traction for empties to the depot or for the actual diesel paisley canal service.

 

[rail-britain]

That is not quite true, almost every driver in central, corkerhill, shields, ayr, and motherwell signs the route and electric traction for empties to the depot or for the actual diesel paisley canal service

The normal EMU services are operating
Apparently volunteers were sought to operate two four car EMUs on a shuttle service, but not enough came forward
Thus two pairs of Class 156 will operate a shuttle service instead

The Motherwell - Cumbernauld and Glasgow - Paisley Canal services will not operate

 

[tbtc]

Are there any 156s which run as four car formations, or coupled to 170s which could be used? Seems a shame to cancel a service with no rail "alternative"

 

[CarterUSM]

The normal EMU services are operating
Apparently volunteers were sought to operate two four car EMUs on a shuttle service, but not enough came forward
Thus two pairs of Class 156 will operate a shuttle service instead

The Motherwell - Cumbernauld and Glasgow - Paisley Canal services will not operate

I don't know how that is , as the shuttles have been written in to the diagrams anyway, 6 per hour, and the staff brief has been out for quite some time. All services via Gilmour st will also call at Cardonald in both directions all day. Not to mention special services from a multitude of other locations.

 

[rail-britain]

Are there any 156s which run as four car formations, or coupled to 170s which could be used? Seems a shame to cancel a service with no rail "alternative"

There are loads of services that use more than one Class 156 (for Glasgow South includes Kilmarnock, East Kilbride, Carlisle, and Stranraer)
Class 170 units do not normally operate to the south west of Glasgow (I can't even recall seeing one at Corkerhill)

The Motherwell - Cumbernauld service is practically a "ghost train"
Signs are already in place advising the service will not be operating and passengers should travel via Glasgow QS and Glasgow Central, allowing about an extra 30 minutes travel time
However, North Lanarkshire Council are funding a "free" bus for employees and as I understand it they will also allow rail ticket holders to use it

However, passenger loads are expected to be vastly more than normal to/from Glasgow and so many services will be strengthened, the Motherwell - Cumbernauld is an obvious service to acquire one DMU from in order to operate this shuttle service

 

[CarterUSM]

Are there any 156s which run as four car formations, or coupled to 170s which could be used? Seems a shame to cancel a service with no rail "alternative"

There is not even a replacement bus service for Canal on the day! There will be no chance of 170's, they will be all out for strengthening also.

 

[68000]

A little aside, but there has been some debate about what the first "train" would be on the route
Clearly it was going to be something to do with the completion of the rail route, prior to passenger carrying services (I use that term as clearly there will be at least three special services before passenger timetabled services commence)

I appreciate some Class 66s now have covered the route, but it has been at walking pace with various ballast vehicles

Here is what we have so far :
Tuesday 07 September
16:10 to 20:00
Radio Survey
Class 31 NR

Wednesday 08 September
16:10 to 20:00
Radio Survey
Class 31 NR

That will be the GSM-R test train, it will run again at full line speed in November

 

[me123]

The Motherwell - Cumbernauld service is practically a "ghost train" ...

You're absolutely right. I've been on the train quite a bit, and on the odd occasion I've seen quite good loadings from Motherwell. But even then, I reckon a 153 would be more than sufficient (although perhaps CarterUSM has a better idea, given that he seems to work these services from time to time!) It's possibly the most heavily subsidised service in Scotland, and doesn't attract many passengers because:

1. Cumbernauld is a very large town, and realistically the rail service only serves a small portion of it.
2. The Coatbridge-Motherwell market is dominated by the much more frequent bus services, provided by two operators. An hourly service in the SPT is going to be unattractive, because the services up here are excellent.

To be honest, it's a shame that that's the case. The rail service is actually the quickest way of getting between Motherwell, Cumbernauld and Coatbridge!

 

[CarterUSM]

You're absolutely right. I've been on the train quite a bit, and on the odd occasion I've seen quite good loadings from Motherwell. But even then, I reckon a 153 would be more than sufficient (although perhaps CarterUSM has a better idea, given that he seems to work these services from time to time!) It's possibly the most heavily subsidised service in Scotland, and doesn't attract many passengers because:

1. Cumbernauld is a very large town, and realistically the rail service only serves a small portion of it.
2. The Coatbridge-Motherwell market is dominated by the much more frequent bus services, provided by two operators. An hourly service in the SPT is going to be unattractive, because the services up here are excellent.

To be honest, it's a shame that that's the case. The rail service is actually the quickest way of getting between Motherwell, Cumbernauld and Coatbridge!

You're right mate, a single car unit would take even the peak flows (20-30 passengers by my estimate) comfortably. outwith the peak flows you're looking at an average of 5-10 and after 8pm you rarely see a soul. It is a great service for those who use it however, mainly council workers in the peaks it would seem. I think North Lanarkshire council had a major part in the inauguration of the service in the first place.

 

[Bittern]

I use this service in the daytime often and the passenger count is one of the lowest I've witnessed, and that's from someone who does a lot of railway travel!

I was in a convo with someone (I think it was Transform Scotland, but can't be sure) and was told that there was at least talk of extending the train forwards to Stirling and backwards to Hamilton. I doubt the backwards extension would come to something considering the near 15-min frequency Hamilton gets thanks to the Larkhall branch, but the idea of extending the train to Stirling sounds appealing to me.

 

[rail-britain]

I reckon a 153 would be more than sufficient

It is not practical to have a single or pair of Class 153 units in the ScotRail fleet, therefore using a Class 156 is the next best option
However, if there were other routes then it may become practical
[That is also taking into account traction knowledge]
Not that from next timetable this service swaps to a Class 158 unit
This one I find shocking, as there are other routes that would benefit from a Class 158 instead, albeit they are Glasgow North
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was in a convo with someone (I think it was Transform Scotland, but can't be sure) and was told that there was at least talk of extending the train forwards to Stirling and backwards to Hamilton

The Motherwell - Cumbernauld service is part funded by North Lanarkshire Council
It is highly promoted for staff use (hence the over capacity at the car park at Greenfaulds)
The original proposal from the Scottish Executive (before the forming of Transport Scotland) was for a Motherwell - Cumbernauld - Stirling service
However, with the Alloa service this was dumped as paths are limited at Carmuirs / Larbert

On the plus side, such a service has been proposed to be included in the Stirlingshire (EGIP Part 2) electrification
This obviously depends on electrifying the gap between Greenhills and Coatbridge (which at present is not included)
Discussions are ongoing between Transport Scotland and North Lanarkshire Council on funding this addition

 

[route101]

I used this route in August and noticed 2 People connecting at Cumbernauld to go to Motherwell to join a Virgin service . A Stirling Train would be cool but not many Virgin Services call at Motherwell.

 

[rail-britain]

not many Virgin Services call at Motherwell

Even fewer cross-border services over the next three timetables
I feel like we're going back in time to when only Birmingham and Manchester services call there in the late 1980s, one year InterCity accidently removed all the Euston services and had to amend their timetable due to the oversight

 

[me123]

It is not practical to have a single or pair of Class 153 units in the ScotRail fleet, therefore using a Class 156 is the next best option
However, if there were other routes then it may become practical
[That is also taking into account traction knowledge]
Not that from next timetable this service swaps to a Class 158 unit
This one I find shocking, as there are other routes that would benefit from a Class 158 instead, albeit they are Glasgow North

I understand that having a single 153 would be even more wasteful than having a 156 (or, soon to be, 158 shuttling up and down the line). But, in terms of capacity, I reckon a 153 would cope on the line no bother.

If the train became half-hourly Motherwell-Stirling, I think it would actually be relatively well used. More frequent trains on the existing route would make rail a much more attractive option (particularly on the Coatbridge-Motherwell section), and the links up to Stirling would be well used for a number of reasons (such as shopping in Stirling itself, students going to university in Stirling, connecting to other services at either end...). And, it could be EMU operated when all the lines up to Stirling are electrified.

Sadly, I know the paths aren't readily available North of Cumbernauld. But it's always nice to dream...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I used this route in August and noticed 2 People connecting at Cumbernauld to go to Motherwell to join a Virgin service . A Stirling Train would be cool but not many Virgin Services call at Motherwell.

irgin I think are going to stop more of theirs from May 2011 when EC pull out, dunno about FTPE

 

[swt_passenger]

Virgin I think are going to stop more of theirs from May 2011 when EC pull out, dunno about FTPE

Did you not see the thread here:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36090

which included:

A Transport Scotland spokeswoman said: “We understand that Arriva CrossCountry are discussing franchise issues with the DfT. However, the DfT has informed us that they will not seek to improve service provision at Motherwell offered by west coast main line services at this time.”

 

[tbtc]

The original proposal from the Scottish Executive (before the forming of Transport Scotland) was for a Motherwell - Cumbernauld - Stirling service However, with the Alloa service this was dumped as paths are limited at Carmuirs / Larbert

I didn't think the Alloa line meant any additional services on the Glasgow - Croy - Larbert - Stirling route?

 

[route:oxford]

I used this route in August and noticed 2 People connecting at Cumbernauld to go to Motherwell to join a Virgin service . A Stirling Train would be cool but not many Virgin Services call at Motherwell.

Stirling to Motherwell would be excellent - especially if there were a more frequent stopping pattern for the WC services. Save a trek across Weegieland in the rain.

Hell, have a chat to North Lanarkshire Council and Perth & Kinross Council, build half a dozen Turbostars, start them at Perth, then operate them as a "West Coast Connect" Open Access service.

Then do a bit of an ORCATS raid on the Perth, Gleneagles, Dunblane, Bridge of Allan, Stirling & Larbert section...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Did you not see the thread here:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=36090

which included:

I heard VT were planning this, dunno where, might have been changed since.