AGA cancellations today (02/04)

[colchesterken]

IAnglia is showing 20 cancellatio0ns today " due to staff being unavailable "
Are they a sickly lot or is this hiding some sort of union action.

 

[Envy123]

This worries me.

If I lived in a AGA exclusive area, how would I get to work?

This seriously makes me rethink my moving choices.

 

[DasLunatic]

Cast your eyes on this.

 

[Agent_c]

Is this the railway version of a "Blue Flu", or real illness?

 

[westcoaster]

Looking at the trains cancelled looks to be as little as 3 crew missing. The two Norwich-Chelmsford canx looks to be the same crew member, and also the Ipswich Lowestoft ones also.

 

[colchesterken]

I worked in an upmarket call centre, the phones had to be answered, if there was a problem, people would be taken out of the backroom and headphone fitted. the phone staff would be paid overtime to help the paperwork team out of hours, I have worked on cases at 10pm on Sunday night..If all failed, doors to Ivory towers were opened and managers called to the coal face, we did not like it at we felt we were being watched

If I ran the railway managers etc, would have to keep their skills up by driving and signing for routes under their control for as many hours per month as needed (on overtime if needed ) then in emergency they could be called in as they do not drive regularly driving hours would not be a problem

Are AGA keeping costs and training of spare staff down because they know something we do not.

 

[Mojo]

If I ran the railway managers etc, would have to keep their skills up by driving and signing for routes under their control for as many hours per month as needed (on overtime if needed ) then in emergency they could be called in as they do not drive regularly driving hours would not be a problem

Are AGA keeping costs and training of spare staff down because they know something we do not.

Many train operators have agreements that their managers will not drive trains except in emergency situations, or for the purpose of maintaining their competence (in which case they would be accompanied by an Instructor or possibly someone else).

 

[SPADTrap]

I worked in an upmarket call centre, the phones had to be answered, if there was a problem, people would be taken out of the backroom and headphone fitted. the phone staff would be paid overtime to help the paperwork team out of hours, I have worked on cases at 10pm on Sunday night..If all failed, doors to Ivory towers were opened and managers called to the coal face, we did not like it at we felt we were being watched

If I ran the railway managers etc, would have to keep their skills up by driving and signing for routes under their control for as many hours per month as needed (on overtime if needed ) then in emergency they could be called in as they do not drive regularly driving hours would not be a problem

Are AGA keeping costs and training of spare staff down because they know something we do not.

Well, you don't run the railways

Sickness is sickness. Seasonal flu is common at present.

 

[ComUtoR]

If I ran the railway managers etc, would have to keep their skills up by driving and signing for routes under their control for as many hours per month as needed (on overtime if needed )

My TOC already does this and I'd be surprised if others didn't. All our Driver Managers are route, traction and rules competent.

then in emergency they could be called in as they do not drive regularly driving hours would not be a problem

Only if it was that simple.

 

[Dave1987]

I worked in an upmarket call centre, the phones had to be answered, if there was a problem, people would be taken out of the backroom and headphone fitted. the phone staff would be paid overtime to help the paperwork team out of hours, I have worked on cases at 10pm on Sunday night..If all failed, doors to Ivory towers were opened and managers called to the coal face, we did not like it at we felt we were being watched

If I ran the railway managers etc, would have to keep their skills up by driving and signing for routes under their control for as many hours per month as needed (on overtime if needed ) then in emergency they could be called in as they do not drive regularly driving hours would not be a problem

Are AGA keeping costs and training of spare staff down because they know something we do not.

How would you comply with Hidden regulations? How would you get it so the available driver managers sign the traction and routes required to complete the open diagram? How would you cover the DM's "on call" duties if you've already used them to cover a diagram?

Sorry but it's far far more complex than you seem to believe it is. DM's sign everything their drivers do which is how they are able to assess their drivers.

 

[delt1c]

I worked in an upmarket call centre, the phones had to be answered, if there was a problem, people would be taken out of the backroom and headphone fitted. the phone staff would be paid overtime to help the paperwork team out of hours, I have worked on cases at 10pm on Sunday night..If all failed, doors to Ivory towers were opened and managers called to the coal face, we did not like it at we felt we were being watched

If I ran the railway managers etc, would have to keep their skills up by driving and signing for routes under their control for as many hours per month as needed (on overtime if needed ) then in emergency they could be called in as they do not drive regularly driving hours would not be a problem

Are AGA keeping costs and training of spare staff down because they know something we do not.

I worked in a call centre for a multi National company. Never felt appreciated, was like a battery chicken farm. Wouldnt want pour railway staff to feel like this when operating our trains.

 

[LowLevel]

I worked in a large call centre. Only appropriately trained managers could be used on the operating floor for legal reasons in that case. Not much different to the railway really. The difference is of course if the phones don't get answered it's annoying but not dangerous. If you have a 'once in a while driver' particularly during degraded working people could be killed as the result of a mistake.

So as I have worked in both industries I think I'm qualified to suggest that Ken has no relevant idea of what he is on about

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Why are we discussing call centres ?

You can work in a call centre until you fall asleep from exhaustion, and the worst that will happen is you'll bang your head on a keyboard and upend your chair.

If you do that at the helm of 400 tonnes of train, you'll be endangering upto 600 passengers, which is why there are very stringent rules about working time, rest periods, personal need breaks and other fatigue reduction measures, all part of the implementation of the recommendations in the Hidden report into the Clapham Junction disaster.

 

[DarloRich]

I wonder if someone now wishes they didn't organise that works trip out for a curry/chinese/seafood/ etc on Thursday night

 

[Dave1987]

I wonder if someone now wishes they didn't organise that works trip out for a curry/chinese/seafood/ etc on Thursday night

There is a horrible flu type bug going around at the moment which takes about a week to get over.

 

[DarloRich]

There is a horrible flu type bug going around at the moment which takes about a week to get over.

i know - we have had it at work. Trying to be light hearted.

 

[colchesterken]

Oh Dear what have I started. I need to defend myself, the point I was making is that there seems to be no plan "B" there is no resilience today on the railways
In about 1958 I was going to Southend on the fast (first stop Benfleet)the normal 2-6-4T
must have had a bad day, train turned up with an 0-6-0 tender freight loco with 8 on we were about 15 late but got there. now they would cancel, no spare stock as it is all about pennies and the bottom line
The point I was making is if they had qualified managers to step in the services could run one of the earlier contributors said on his co the managers are updated on traction and routes , bit of overtime for them to keep the trains running
The point I was making about the call centre is that it was well managed with the backroom staff and managers able to go on the phones, I said it was up market we were all lawyers with various qualifications to do the job, seems like the same management could run the railway but it is all about money, cheaper to cancel a train than rush around to find a qualified person to run it and pay overtime. .End of rant,,,

 

[jopsuk]

"train drivers paid £thousands to sit around all day watching TV"

Courtesy of local news and the tabloids, that's why "spare" turns are pared down to an absolute minimum

 

[ComUtoR]

Oh Dear what have I started. I need to defend myself, the point I was making is that there seems to be no plan "B" there is no resilience today on the railways

There are plans B, C, and D. It has been discussed numerous times but no one is listening. Apologies if you haven't read the threads about it but how much flexibility can you really allow for ? If it was 3 Drivers down today then you would have needed at least 3 spare Drivers to cover the work. Do you do that every day ?

In about 1958 I was going to Southend on the fast (first stop Benfleet)the normal 2-6-4T
must have had a bad day, train turned up with an 0-6-0 tender freight loco with 8 on we were about 15 late but got there. now they would cancel, no spare stock as it is all about pennies and the bottom line

This is not 1958. The railway has changed dramatically and is no way comparable by today's standards.

The point I was making is if they had qualified managers to step in the services could run one of the earlier contributors said on his co the managers are updated on traction and routes , bit of overtime for them to keep the trains running

It really isn't that simple. "Hidden" has already been mentioned. I will add that people do things on their days off. It is unreasonable to expect every employee, manager or otherwise, to be on demand when not at work. What If they were out on the lash ? There are so many points to consider that its well worth looking at the various threads about staffing arrangements etc.

The point I was making about the call centre is that it was well managed with the backroom staff and managers able to go on the phones,

I assure you that the railways is "well managed" For your analogy to sit along side driver staffing then you would need all the "backroom" staff to be trained on routes, traction, rules etc. We do have staff available to cover that are booked specifically every day but sometimes you get to a point where everyone who is available is being used. You also have to consider that a single duty going uncovered has a major impact.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

that's why "spare" turns are pared down to an absolute minimum

Ours are going up and up and we are having a greater % of SP cover.

 

[jopsuk]

Ours are going up and up and we are having a greater % of SP cover.

Until the next time the papers find out at about fare rise time.

 

[Dave1987]

Oh Dear what have I started. I need to defend myself, the point I was making is that there seems to be no plan "B" there is no resilience today on the railways
In about 1958 I was going to Southend on the fast (first stop Benfleet)the normal 2-6-4T
must have had a bad day, train turned up with an 0-6-0 tender freight loco with 8 on we were about 15 late but got there. now they would cancel, no spare stock as it is all about pennies and the bottom line
The point I was making is if they had qualified managers to step in the services could run one of the earlier contributors said on his co the managers are updated on traction and routes , bit of overtime for them to keep the trains running
The point I was making about the call centre is that it was well managed with the backroom staff and managers able to go on the phones, I said it was up market we were all lawyers with various qualifications to do the job, seems like the same management could run the railway but it is all about money, cheaper to cancel a train than rush around to find a qualified person to run it and pay overtime. .End of rant,,,

Ken whilst I appreciate you mean well in your posts on this you need to understand the requirements that a person has to have to drive a train and so cover for turns when people are sick. For a start the *only* people who are allowed to drive trains are those that are in the driving grade (be that drivers, instructors or driver managers), and are regularly assessed in their competency to drive trains. So the only managers who are allowed to drive trains are driver managers, end of! Each driver manager is obliged to be "on call" for so many weeks a year and has to respond to incidents while they are on call. So to say there should be managers who should be able to jump in at a moments notice isn't really a viable one unless you have lots and lots more DM's which isn't gonna happen.

The one viable way is as others have said, to have plenty of spare drivers to cover. But as others have said I'm sure the tabloids would have a field day if the railway was deemed to be wasting money paying loads of drivers to sit doing nothing just in case a service needs covering. It's a cache 22 situation but cancelling services is definitely not a cheap option for the TOC.

 

[scott118]

carbon monoxide poisoning.

 

[SPADTrap]

carbon monoxide poisoning.

Leave it!

 

[ComUtoR]

Until the next time the papers find out at about fare rise time.

I'd love to be that cynical but I can't. I know why our last increase in SP turn length was done and I know why the last % increase was done. If anything, my TOC is spending more and more on increasing flexibility in the workforce.

Seeing what happens on the ground every day is making me less and less cynical. I know the system is broken and I know improvements need to be made.

Ken's comments are well off the mark and his suggestion already happens. I know for a fact that two managers at my depot had to go out and drive trains to cover work. I know for a fact that we have standby drivers. I know for a fact that people do get called in for late notice rest day working and I know for a fact that out spare cover is on the increase and has been since I started on the railway. I'd like to be cynical, but I can't.

 

[colchesterken]

ComUtoR is following my point it seems his TOC is better run than AGA that is why I was thinking weather AGA were keeping costs down in view of the renewal in the summer
so as not to invest in training spare staff to benefit maybe a different operator

 

[dk1]

There are NO more drivers sick than usual & there where NO drivers available to work Free Days or to do Overtime. I will leave it there apart from to say don't believe everything you read from the media.

 

[Class 170101]

I will leave it there apart from to say don't believe everything you read from the media.

I concur

 

[LAX54]

I concur

we heard the same too

 

[grumblingalong]

we heard the same too

Good to hear the railway rumour chain is still in full and thriving operation

 

[455driver]

There are NO more drivers sick than usual & there where NO drivers available to work Free Days or to do Overtime. I will leave it there apart from to say don't believe everything you read from the media.

Are you trying to say it isnt the nasty, militant drivers fault?*
That cant be right because it is always the staffs fault!


* Cue the normal-
the drivers should be made to work their days off, dont they care about the passengers, what about loyalty to the company etc etc etc type posts!