Aberystwyth to London

[merlodlliw]

tbtc, you have a point. Aberystwyth will attract more people than Wrexham because it is on the sea, has a lot of students, has the National Library of Wales, and of course, has the steam railway.

No disrespect to Wrexham, but it is not really an attractive (or even unattractive) seaside town! And it's University does not have the same size, history or reputation as Aberystwyth's.

Greenback my friend, Glyndwr is only a couple of years old, of course the history of Aber is there, but to be fare except for the WAG building, that's about it in Aber. I might add Glyndwr as attracted over 3000 residents live in from all over the world, not as much as Aber of course, but we do have Llan Railway & the World Heritage sites which attract hundreds of thousands of tourists into the County, Wrexham attracts 10000 into the town for the clubs Fri/Sat & Sunday, many travel from as far afield as Aber by coach.
But who cares anyhow, pity we lost WSMR but thats life, losing WSMR as pleased a few sad people on Rail Forums. but we look forward to Double tracks and the Wag Expresses.

See you

Bob

 

[krus_aragon]

Greenback my friend, Glyndwr is only a couple of years old

It has been around for a bit longer under its previous name of the North East Wales Institute (NEWI), but it may not have its name of Glyndwr University for very long: three other universities in Wales (Trinity St Davids, Swansea Met, and UWIC) are merging to form a reconstituted University of Wales, and are inviting Glyndwr and Newport to join too.

There's also a small enclave of Bangor University in Wrexham too: a portion of the nursing department.

 

[TDK]

A few points in response.

67's going to Aber were first raised by Andy Hamilton ex MD WSMR to my knowledge.

Pre WSMR demise Chiltern yes Chiltern were sniffing around Aberystwyth - not a daily service but looking at times of peak demand. Summer weekends, student goings and coming at Aber Uni.

Aberystwyth is more of a captive market than Wrexham despite population differences. Aber is 2hrs (at least) drive time to nearest dual carriageway. Cambrian Mainline is near 50mph average speed. i.e the poorer alternatives mean less competition. Cosmopolitan nature of Aber means linkages to elsewhere are of relative more importance to its populace.

Cambrian mainline has continued to grow at c7% per annum despite recession.

This was purley for connection purposes I belive not to run 67's up the Cambrian
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Pardon me for passing on a gen message, then. In future I'll know better to keep everything to myself, yes? What's that phrase, ah yes, "Don't shoot the messenger.

"Management have has a meeting with ATW staff at Shrewsbury regarding the above. Train to be formed of a........wait for it.........ex WSMR trainset."

Sorry Gog the way this is worded is as if it's a true fact anf not speculation, agreed discuss this but what is the point if it is never going to happen
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If Ieuan Wyn Jones is still Minister of Rail after May(unlikely) he may well grant a direct train to Cardiff, to save Mid Wales politicians having to change at Shrewsbury. As for London from Aber by loco hauled 67, don't they have to run with two engines in case one fails, if was just a 67 & DVT on the single track, who comes to the rescue & how long if it should fail, the line is not like the ten miles between Wrexham & Saltney with rescue down the road
there may be passing loops on your line,a 158 can be piggy backed, a 67 needs a tow.

.

I will reapeat myself again 67's are not permitted to Aber
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Wrexham is bigger, but people travel long distances to visit Aberystwyth, for both tourism and the University (rather than being a local college for local people).

Apart from supporters of Blue Square Premier Football teams, there's not a massive market for people from outside the "greater Wrexham" area to visit the town.

Aberystwyth would stand a better chance of sustaining a London service (as I've said all along).

Telford has a large population 168,000 a lot bigger than Aber and WSMR struggled to get the people of Telfod to travel to London on their trains even with discounts, unfortunately it isn't the population size of a town that needs to be considered it is whether the people will A. want to travel to London and B. can afford to travel to London, Aberystwyth as you say have a lot of students will these students be able to afford the ticket or will Daddy come and get them in the car, I recon the latter will apply, this is why the business case for ATW failed.

 

[tbtc]

Telford has a large population 168,000 a lot bigger than Aber and WSMR struggled to get the people of Telfod to travel to London on their trains even with discounts, unfortunately it isn't the population size of a town that needs to be considered it is whether the people will A. want to travel to London and B. can afford to travel to London, Aberystwyth as you say have a lot of students will these students be able to afford the ticket or will Daddy come and get them in the car, I recon the latter will apply, this is why the business case for ATW failed.

Very valid points.

I see Aberystwyth as similar to St Andrews where I grew up, a small place but one with students and tourists, providing a "year round" demand. There are much bigger places with no London service, sure. However, places like Aberystwyth could be capable of sustaining a "two way" market to London (where its not just about the "to London" flow, but it works both ways).

To give a contrast, my wife is from Sunderland, which is a decent sized place, but (apart from Premiership football) there's not a lot of demand from people in south east England to travel to Wearside. Same with Hull. But London to Bangor (University) and Holyhead (Ferry) works. There's no equation to prove this either way, I accept, but I think Aberystwyth has more of a case than Wrexham.

That's a good point about Telford; I thought it'd sustain passenger numbers (even if some of the more rural WSMR places didn't). Got to be honest about the things I get wrong, of course.

 

[Gareth Marston]

All depends whether you believe there should be a national inclusive network with through services from the UK capital to all regions or see trains to London as a commercial profit only proposition.

With the current organisation and costs of our railways needing so much public money a solely commercial outlook from rail operators looks nigh impossible no matter how hard they pretend.

 

[tbtc]

All depends whether you believe there should be a national inclusive network with through services from the UK capital to all regions or see trains to London as a commercial profit only proposition

Its impossible for a direct London train to/from every local station. IIRC there are only a handful of stations where you can't travel to London with just one change (Cardiff Bay is one of the very few, I think the Barton on Humber branch is another).

Personally, and this is just me, I'd be more concerned about links to the nearest big city, I think that London services are less valuable than most enthusiasts seem to; there's something quite "token" about them and little evidence of the supposed benefits. But that's just me.

 

[merlodlliw]

It has been around for a bit longer under its previous name of the North East Wales Institute (NEWI), but it may not have its name of Glyndwr University for very long: three other universities in Wales (Trinity St Davids, Swansea Met, and UWIC) are merging to form a reconstituted University of Wales, and are inviting Glyndwr and Newport to join too.

There's also a small enclave of Bangor University in Wrexham too: a portion of the nursing department.

Krus.
NEWI only became a University by name a couple of years ago,there were two large Institutes built, one in Kelsterton for Flintshire, and Wrexham for Denbighshire built after the war. Change of course as already entered an new era at Glyndwr now it as a grass roof. amidst all the new high rise students flats.

Bob

 

[krus_aragon]

Krus.
NEWI only became a University by name a couple of years ago

My point exactly: it was already around as an institute of Further/Higher Education before "Glyndwr" arrived three years ago. (And it may well be renamed again soon.)

 

[merlodlliw]

My point exactly: it was already around as an institute of Further/Higher Education before "Glyndwr" arrived three years ago. (And it may well be renamed again soon.)

I wonder what the name will be this time, have you seen the new grass ecco roof, there will have to be a few risk assessments before its mowed or sheep grazed.
No doubt another £1M for a name change to signs & letterheads.
Bob

 

[Smethwickian]

Clearly, running through services from mid Wales to/from London is fraught with difficulties and may be some way off.

In the meantime, I just wonder if sister companies ATW and Chiltern have considered making the best of what they have a the moment by improving key connections at the one station the currently serve in common - Smethwick Galton Bridge - and offering cheaper fares for those trains, special deals for students etc, just to keep people away from the Virgin or London Midland alternatives between Birmingham and London.....

 

[merlodlliw]

Clearly, running through services from mid Wales to/from London is fraught with difficulties and may be some way off.

In the meantime, I just wonder if sister companies ATW and Chiltern have considered making the best of what they have a the moment by improving key connections at the one station the currently serve in common - Smethwick Galton Bridge - and offering cheaper fares for those trains, special deals for students etc, just to keep people away from the Virgin or London Midland alternatives between Birmingham and London.....

Good afternoon Smethwickian, you make excellent points,when ATW proposed their spoiler to Marylebone, they choose Galton Bridge as their link with Birmingham, as Wolves & New Street were out of bounds for London Passengers on their 158 trains.

I can not see Cheaper fares, other than rail cards & the opposition would probably gang up against cheaper fares. I remember VT killing off FNW
by offering £10 return walk on Manchester to Euston, that put paid to FNW open access & of course FNW were non compi banned from Crewe as well.
FNW charged £25 return,I used to catch this FNW train at Sandbach due to the Crewe ban, VT at the time were charging almost £100 walk on.

As for Aber to London, as you say a long way off, I can not think of any open access Company willing to run it now,DBs family wont run loss leaders between Aber & Shrewsbury on a daily basis, Shrewsbury as a better chance, but Salop CC is cash strapped to support at the moment.

Nice chatting to new Rail Forum members with good ideas. As you say make the best of what we have.

Bob

 

[TDK]

Clearly, running through services from mid Wales to/from London is fraught with difficulties and may be some way off.

In the meantime, I just wonder if sister companies ATW and Chiltern have considered making the best of what they have a the moment by improving key connections at the one station the currently serve in common - Smethwick Galton Bridge - and offering cheaper fares for those trains, special deals for students etc, just to keep people away from the Virgin or London Midland alternatives between Birmingham and London.....

It may be worth writing to Chiltern or ATW and suggesting these options as sometimes this works quite well

 

[The Planner]

Chiltern only go past Snow Hill early on and later on in the day, you would connect in to an LM service to get to Snow Hill/Moor St after about 9am.

 

[Smethwickian]

Of course, The Planner, I know very well the scope of services from Smethwick Galton Bridge, as my monicker might suggest.

I also know that this fully accessible station, normally staffed all day, with a car park, has a wide range of through trains throughout the day to Liverpool, Crewe, the north Wales coast, Aberystwyth, Worcester and Stratford-upon-Avon - yet very many people I know are barely aware of the station's existence because nothing is done to promote them or advertise them locally.

I am merely pointing out that even sister companies like ATW and Chiltern don't do much to refer to each other's services or give the interchange possibilities a mention in their publicity.

Of course, suitable options will always be thrown up by the journey planner and National Rail Enquiries, but when people have a choice, or might want to try combining cheaper tickets from the two operators, the options aren't readily apparent.

Cross Country makes a point of encouraging people to change elsewhere than Birmingham New Street if they don't fancy traipsing around such a large, busy, confusing place. I'm just saying that on a smaller scale there's a similar opportunity at SGB that's not promoted in any way.

 

[tbtc]

Cross Country makes a point of encouraging people to change elsewhere than Birmingham New Street if they don't fancy traipsing around such a large, busy, confusing place. I'm just saying that on a smaller scale there's a similar opportunity at SGB that's not promoted in any way.

You make a good point about interchanging - the size of Birmingham New Street must put of a few passengers, not to mention the "scrum" that you can get trying to board some services.

 

[merlodlliw]

please see other thread booming Cambrian lines.Press release

Bob