A Trip from Kings Cross

[Greenback]

I disagree. All I see is smartcards being hyped up, usually by the people who stand to gain most from their introduction, while their introduction on to our complex system would be fraught with difficulty. The Oyster card doesn't seem to be a simple of infallible system, especially the roll out to National Rail services in London.

I consider that the introduction of smartcards could well be used by TOC's to increase prices by stealth (perhaps why so many profess to be so keen on them?).

 

[jon0844]

I don't think Oyster is a good example of how smartcard ticketing could/would work in the future - but I do see how they can replace the current tickets in London particularly well - given a lot of the time people just get a Travelcard.

To be honest, once the cost of a chip is so low, you can still issue disposable smartcards that will be a lot more intelligent than the paper ticket - but still be offered like normal tickets and not require people to buy a smartcard or register etc.

Contactless credit cards could perhaps store travel information, or your mobile phone, or other devices - and you'd probably have one single account registered to multiple devices.

To be honest, given that I would not be involved in such projects, I've not put that much thought into the exact specific details - but I do know that the current magstrip tickets will have to go. I don't care too much if the replacement still acts much like the current tickets in the most simple form.

And, again, Oyster is a mess. It tries to do too much and does things badly, especially on National Rail. I'd be wanting a nationwide/EU-wide ticket system that is far more dynamic, but can still work locally just as well (which is how most people would always use them).

For higher fares, you'd probably have your smartcard and then pay separately - as against having loads of money stored on the card, then the ticket(s) are loaded. The smartcard, and your account, can then reward you for regular train travel, give discounts for certain journeys made within a certain time, be used to get certain benefits (e.g. free tea/coffee, meals) depending on the class of ticket and so on.

You could also use that ticket to record your travel, so you have proof of where you boarded - a sort of permit to travel.

 

[scotsman]

Going back to something near what the OP was on about, I was once asked if I knew where platform 1 was in Liverpool South Parkway (on the staircase to the footbridge for platforms 1-4 and signposted as such). I was also asked in Aviemore station car park "Can I park here?"

The fact is, passengers don't trust machines or signs in the same way they trust humans. If you have a tie and name tag, there is rather high chance you'll be stopped by passengers who want help with something or other.

 

[jon0844]

As someone who often forgot to take his name badge off a lunch, I can recall being asked things many a time on my lunchbreak in shops!

Actually, it might be nice for a mod to create a new thread to look at ideas for next-generation ticketing, bringing together a lot of threads that have contained discussions and ideas.

 

[djw1981]

Well which do you think is cheaper a machine or the wage, benefits and pension of a person?

The rough rule of thumb is that by the time you take holiday cover, pension, employer NI, sick leave budgetting and back office costs (payroll, uniform etc) then the cost to an employer of an employee is roughly 1.4-1.5 times their salary. Of course in the case of fat cat manager pensions and perks, the numbers soon rise!

 

[scotsman]

As someone who often forgot to take his name badge off a lunch, I can recall being asked things many a time on my lunchbreak in shops!

Actually, it might be nice for a mod to create a new thread to look at ideas for next-generation ticketing, bringing together a lot of threads that have contained discussions and ideas.

I prefer to keep mine on, as it reads "STEWARD - [name removed]"
No one bothers me outside a station

 

[Clip]

I was having a run on the ECML yesterday, doing KGX-New Barnet, New Barnet-WGC and return. As anybody who uses it knows, at KGX there are two booking offices, the main one, with a queue often of about 35 people, and the FCC one, in the construction site. There was a woman there (the small FCC one) asking about something to do with St Pancras and tickets, holding up a queue of abput 5 people, asking questions like ' how do I get to St Pancras', and taking all the time oin the world. Why do people do this? they ask straightforward questions about directions and where's this and that, and time sof trains to wherever to booking office staff who have other jobs to do. What do they waste time when other people need the services of the staff for a proper reason, I was in the queue behind her, eventually I just took the risk of my penalty fare and went to WGC, outside of my 1-6 Zone Travelcard, luckily i had time at New Barnet to buy a valid ticket, but why dod people waste time on staff asking questions they could ask someone else?

Probably none of the Network Rail staff about to ask!
When i worked at Kings Cross you would get asked the daftest of questions whilst on the main concourse

"where is the underground" when they have just walked past it(pre closure) Though I made it my business to get to know the local area and bus routes by heart so that i could impart this to anyone who wanted such info - pubs restaurants hotels even farringdon by walking and such like.

Not like that nowadays whenever i return i must say!

 

[yorkie]

train was 20 late from ROM to LST, to Kings Cross, (taxi was slowwww), across the station to the otherside, queued for 8 MINS, thought stuff it, and hoped there was no RPI onboard. but I had a 1-6TC to get me to New barnet, where I legged it to the ticket office, brough the ticket to WGC, back down the other side, to the train, to WGC and back to KGX.

If your journey was from Romford to WGC, then what matters is whether or not you had sufficient opportunity to buy at Romford. If the ticket office was closed and there was no facility to buy a Boundary Zone 6 extension to WGC, then you are permitted to continue your journey to WGC and pay at your destination (or on board if ticket inspectors board) if you do not have time to pay at an interchange station without missing your train. I don't know where the taxi comes into it (are you rich?!) but if you took a slow taxi instead of the normal cross-London connection by Underground, then that may be interpreted as either a break of journey or a separate journey so may invalidate your claim to buy at your destination.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

If your journey was from Romford to WGC, then what matters is whether or not you had sufficient opportunity to buy at Romford. If the ticket office was closed and there was no facility to buy a Boundary Zone 6 extension to WGC, then you are permitted to continue your journey to WGC and pay at your destination (or on board if ticket inspectors board) if you do not have time to pay at an interchange station without missing your train. I don't know where the taxi comes into it (are you rich?!) but if you took a slow taxi instead of the normal cross-London connection by Underground, then that may be interpreted as either a break of journey or a separate journey so may invalidate your claim to buy at your destination.

I had a zone 6 TC (which covers well beyond ROM on the Great Eastern). Went back to liv St - taxi to KGX (I cant use the underground due to account of having a baby (and pram etc) with us. Got to KGX with 20 to spare, by time at TL booking hall, stood for 5-10 min, and just thought I've gotta chance this. Was always going to alight at New Barnet, so just brought ticket there, but :

1) There's never RPI on GN services during engineering works

Oh, ROM stands for Romford

 

[Aictos]

The TVMs aren't perfect, for example as a dispatcher I know nothing about tickets yet am still expected to know my stuff on tickets so when a passenger wants a specific type of ticket for their journey and can't get it from the TVM it's handy to have booking office staff available but lets take one day as a example shall we:

A group of passengers wanted to travel from Hertford North to Green Park via Highbury and Islington so wanted to get split tickets from Hertford North to Crews Hill then a travelcard for onward travel.

Now the booking office was temporarily closed for a staff break, there were no gateline staff in attendance, there is no PERTIS and the TVMs won't sell the required tickets so being the only staff member what am I supposed to do?

Could always tell the passengers to get off at Cuffley and buy their tickets there but at extra cost ie Hertford North to Cuffley, Cuffley to Crews Hill then a travelcard or buy their tickets at Highbury and Islington but as we all know you cannot get a fare from a NR station outside the London zones as one member can testify!

This is one reason why proper staffing should be introduced, have the booking offices manned during proper areas depending on usage and make sure staff manning the gatelines or barriers actually have equipment to sell tickets if need be rather then do nothing.

I can think of a few stations where a passenger could see a queue at the booking office and get a ticket from the gateline staff...

So that being said, TVMs are only part of the solution and not the full solution.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

ajax103: if your superiors get there way, everyhting on the GN Hertford loop will have no Booking office, so you could enjoy 100's more questions like ^^^^^^^^ Enjoy

 

[Aictos]

ajax103: if your superiors get there way, everyhting on the GN Hertford loop will have no Booking office, so you could enjoy 100's more questions like ^^^^^^^^ Enjoy

Worse thing they did was close all the booking offices on the line on Sundays except for Cuffley due to local political interference (Cuffley on a Sunday is fairly quiet with not a lot happening, more like a morgue) and when Arsenal play at home which is the only time Hertford will be open.

Hertford used to be fairly busy on Sundays with passengers renewing their season tickets, buying groupsave tickets etc...Oh Happy Days!!!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Worse thing they did was close all the booking offices on the line on Sundays except for Cuffley due to local political interference (Cuffley on a Sunday is fairly quiet with not a lot happening, more like a morgue) and when Arsenal play at home which is the only time Hertford will be open.

Hertford used to be fairly busy on Sundays with passengers renewing their season tickets, buying groupsave tickets etc...Oh Happy Days!!!

When did all that happen (closures i mean). They'll do it slowly, they'll cut Saturday afternnons, then they'll put on morning only, then they'll close on weekends, then before you know it you'll be open 3 hours a day, then you'll be closed

 

[yorkie]

A group of passengers wanted to travel from Hertford North to Green Park via Highbury and Islington so wanted to get split tickets from Hertford North to Crews Hill then a travelcard for onward travel.

Now the booking office was temporarily closed for a staff break, there were no gateline staff in attendance, there is no PERTIS and the TVMs won't sell the required tickets so being the only staff member what am I supposed to do?

I assume they wanted GroupSave to Crews Hill, which isn't available from the machines, and a Travelcard may not be available either. In which case I believe you have to tell them to pay at their destination and if they encounter any RPIs that the RPIs should contact you if they have any doubts or concerns.

Could always tell the passengers to get off at Cuffley and buy their tickets there but at extra cost ie Hertford North to Cuffley, Cuffley to Crews Hill then a travelcard or buy their tickets at Highbury and Islington but as we all know you cannot get a fare from a NR station outside the London zones as one member can testify!

It isn't acceptable to make passengers delay their journey; they should buy at their destination if there is insufficient opportunity to buy before their journey, or on board. They can only be expected to buy at an interchange station if it won't delay their journey (e.g. if their next train was in 20 minutes). That said, as they wanted to go to Green Park, I am unsure if their 'destination' is considered to be Highbury & Islington (final stop on NR) or Green Park. I don't know where that would be documented.

This is one reason why proper staffing should be introduced, have the booking offices manned during proper areas depending on usage and make sure staff manning the gatelines or barriers actually have equipment to sell tickets if need be rather then do nothing.

I can think of a few stations where a passenger could see a queue at the booking office and get a ticket from the gateline staff...

So that being said, TVMs are only part of the solution and not the full solution.

I agree totally!

However if they want TVMs to be the solution they must make TVMs sell any walk-on single or return ticket, rover, ranger, etc...

 

[harz99]

!

At the end of the day, the customer is still a customer. It is not the customer's fault if the TOC cannot provide adequate facilities, thus causing a delay to other customers!

Err no; that window is open to sell tickets to intending FCC customers, ie. what the OP wanted to purchase. The person making the enquiries, like it or not, is NOT an intending customer of FCC. Correct me if I am wrong but, even amidst works are there not signs at KGX directing pax to StP?

An apology and a polite mention of the fact that the window concerned is not an information point with regard to other stations, and a hint of where to go to seek said information is what was needed.

 

[devon_metro]

I had a zone 6 TC (which covers well beyond ROM on the Great Eastern). Went back to liv St - taxi to KGX (I cant use the underground due to account of having a baby (and pram etc) with us. Got to KGX with 20 to spare, by time at TL booking hall, stood for 5-10 min, and just thought I've gotta chance this. Was always going to alight at New Barnet, so just brought ticket there, but :

1) There's never RPI on GN services during engineering works

Oh, ROM stands for Romford

In railway terms ROM stands for Romsey near Southampton. If you are going to use TLCs then you need to use the correct one

Romford being RMF (obviously!)

 

[Greenback]

Err no; that window is open to sell tickets to intending FCC customers, ie. what the OP wanted to purchase. The person making the enquiries, like it or not, is NOT an intending customer of FCC. Correct me if I am wrong but, even amidst works are there not signs at KGX directing pax to StP?

An apology and a polite mention of the fact that the window concerned is not an information point with regard to other stations, and a hint of where to go to seek said information is what was needed.

Such a response would be immediately understood as being fobbed of, and would likely provoke a complaint to the TOC, who would probably side with the customer and 'have a word' with the member of staff. Indeed, this may have happened before, which is why the member of staff was happy to deal with the questions, which, after all, appear to have been linked to tickets in some way.

Unfortunately TOC's live in a fantasy world where they expect booking ofice staff to keep queues down AND deal with all manner of questions and requests for information at the same time. It is an impossible task.

Even worse, at least when I worked there, most attempts to inform people at Reading ticket office that someone should go and queue elsewhere for information, as 'we only sell tickets' normally resulted in an argument over customer service, which took longer to resolve than providing the answers in the first place.