A community created rolling stock!

[waterboo]

Hi guys, I was thinking, how about we create a rolling stock together. I have modelling capabilities, and with your suggestions on what to add, who knows... one day we could be catching this train on the 7:21 to who knows where!

So I would want any suggestions ideas and improvements, thanks!

PLEASE REMEMBER THIS IS A WORK IN PROGRESS!

 

[Simon11]

Where is this train going? Is this is a commuter train? If so the doors would be better being larger?

P.S. Is this just an S stock? :P

 

[waterboo]

Where is this train going? Is this is a commuter train? If so the doors would be better being larger?

P.S. Is this just an S stock? :P

Yeah good point, I need to make the doors larger. But no, it is not an s stock! Hopefully, the more advanced it gets, it will look very unique.

 

[Nym]

Indeed it looks like S Stock, but why does it taper in so much at the bottom?

 

[asylumxl]

I'm not sure about the strength of te shell given the small gaps you have around your rather large windows. Also, what length are the carriages? The external diaphragm on your train may or may not be out of gauge.

 

[al.currie93]

Really interesting post my engineering interests are can now be applied somewhat :P

Few questions; are we talking about rolling stock as in a locomotive with coaches or a multiple unit? Or both, as in a coach design and locomotive to haul them, and a near identical multiple unit design (like the BREL Mk 3 was)?

I quite like the sound of a "both" venture, but either way I'm interested

 

[Rhydgaled]

Where is this train going? Is this is a commuter train?

That is an important question, what is the intended use of this train?

 

[straller]

My suggestions: diesel-electric, but engine RPM stays constant. 3 cars, BSI coupler, engine in the middle car, middle car has two powered bogies, driving cars have inner bogies powered, engine is Cummins QSK23. Class 275.

 

[Nym]

My suggestions: diesel-electric, but engine RPM stays constant. 3 cars, BSI coupler, engine in the middle car, middle car has two powered bogies, driving cars have inner bogies powered, engine is Cummins QSK23. Class 275.

That is one heavy middle car you have there.
Keeping engine RPM constant is very wasteful in this instance.
Why use a BSI coupler when in 10 - 15 years nothing will use it any more, and the likes of a Dellner coupler offers much better performance and reliability.
You're creating a derailment risk on overspeed a'la spain by having all the mass in the centre.
Why not power all bogies since you're not worried about weight.
The QSK23, even rated at it's full horsepower rating is for one too large to fit under a car, especially with powered bogies on that car.
The QSK23 is nowhere near powerful enough to lug around this weight with an electric transmission and needing to handle all the auxillaries.


Need I go on?

 

[59CosG95]

That is an important question, what is the intended use of this train?

I think it could be used for new electro-diesel stock in the Far SW-they've always had a rough deal with stock, and the least they deserve after Dawlishgate is some new trains for local trains. I've chosen electro-diesel as motive power, as they will no doubt be wiring candidates in years to come, so that the same stock can still be used when the wires come.

 

[straller]

That is one heavy middle car you have there.
Keeping engine RPM constant is very wasteful in this instance.
Why use a BSI coupler when in 10 - 15 years nothing will use it any more, and the likes of a Dellner coupler offers much better performance and reliability.
You're creating a derailment risk on overspeed a'la spain by having all the mass in the centre.
Why not power all bogies since you're not worried about weight.
The QSK23, even rated at it's full horsepower rating is for one too large to fit under a car, especially with powered bogies on that car.
The QSK23 is nowhere near powerful enough to lug around this weight with an electric transmission and needing to handle all the auxillaries.


Need I go on?

Thank you. Changes: Perkins 2006 TWH on all cars, all bogies powered, Dellner couplers. Keep the engine RPM constant and control the motors with IGBT inverters.

 

[asylumxl]

Keep the engine RPM constant and control the motors with IGBT inverters.

And where does all the excess energy go?

 

[straller]

And where does all the excess energy go?

To batteries which can supply traction power.

 

[90019]

So I would want any suggestions ideas and improvements, thanks!

Take a class 444, add a pantograph to the roof or a diesel engine.

You now have the RailUK universal solution.

 

[asylumxl]

To batteries which can supply traction power.

And how is that more efficient than purely just changing the engine RPM in proportion to demand?

Also, batteries are an awful solution with a short life span. Super capacitors are the way forward.

 

[waterboo]

Really interesting comments guys. Looking at your ideas and will update tommorow. Thanksuor the best. Ideally it will be an electric multiple unit commuter train.

 

[59CosG95]

I think, judging by what the OP said at the start of the thread, we could make more than one type of community train. We should probably split the stock into the following categories:

• Commuter (high passenger nos; high rates of accel/decel; ATO etc.)
• Regional/Local (1st Class; higher speeds; possibly bimodal etc.)
• Mainline/InterCity (carriage-end doors, in-cab signalling, (+)125mph, bimodal where required etc.)

Anything I've missed? Don't hesitate to say!

 

[starrymarkb]

I do think the RABe 535 would be a good starting point for a regional unit. (Obv to UK size)

Is a Bombardier/Alstom joint build - they sound rather nice too, like a deeper 323 (Traction is a Holec design)

 

[straller]

And how is that more efficient than purely just changing the engine RPM in proportion to demand?

Also, batteries are an awful solution with a short life span. Super capacitors are the way forward.

This saves fuel.

Okay, let's use super capacitors.

 

[Nym]

This saves fuel.

Okay, let's use super capacitors.

And just how many cars are you going to fill with these?

And since you're using an IGBT driver, you're either going to be very inefficent by switching the supply low or not have much useful life out of the supercaps since the voltage drops massively with the charge...

Or a whole chunck of charge pump and chopper to keep an HV and "LV" side of the cap circuits?

 

[Rhydgaled]

I think, judging by what the OP said at the start of the thread, we could make more than one type of community train. We should probably split the stock into the following categories:

• Commuter (high passenger nos; high rates of accel/decel; ATO etc.)
• Regional/Local (1st Class; higher speeds; possibly bimodal etc.)
• Mainline/InterCity (carriage-end doors, in-cab signalling, (+)125mph, bimodal where required etc.)

Anything I've missed? Don't hesitate to say!

I personally break down the cattegories more than that. I'd have said:

• Inner suburban (fast-operating metro sliding doors (like a 376 or 378), possibly longitudinal seating depending on journey distances) EMU
• Outer suburban (1/3, 2/3 plug doors, 2+2 or 2+3 seating) EMU
• Regional (branch (under 1hr)) DMU/bi-mode version of outer-suburban, 75mph top-speed, reasonably good acceleration. Class 150 similar to this role but has inner-surban features
• Regional (long-distance) 23m vehicles, carriage-end doors, DMU/bi-mode, probably 75mph top speed. Class 156 similar to this role
• Regional Express 23m vehicles, carriage-end doors, available in tri-mode (diesel, 3rd rail and OHLE) and straight-electric variants, 90-110mph top speed
• INTERCITY 23m vehicles, or 26m for electrified routes, LHCS or EMU both possibilities

Both suburban types and the regional branch stock could probably be built with a standard bodyshell, just a different top-speed and a different type of door in the inner-suburban variant. The regional express and regional long-distance trains would be essentially the same, again apart from a different top speed. So really it is three basic train designs, but which require configuration to suit a wider range of deployment sectors.

The regional long-distance stock should in therory be suitable for the regional branch work too, so you could possibly drop the regional branch category particularly as many branches now how through trains onto the main lines.

Take a class 444, add a pantograph to the roof or a diesel engine.

You now have the RailUK universal solution.

I don't think it's a universal solution, but it is a solution to the 'regional express' level which (apart from the 444s and 175s) has been neglected since privatisation in terms of new train orders.

 

[straller]

And just how many cars are you going to fill with these?

And since you're using an IGBT driver, you're either going to be very inefficent by switching the supply low or not have much useful life out of the supercaps since the voltage drops massively with the charge...

Or a whole chunck of charge pump and chopper to keep an HV and "LV" side of the cap circuits?

The supercaps will not provide full traction power, but just enough to get the speed to about 10 mph.

 

[rebmcr]

A bank of 9V alkalines to power the traction motors, with a backup underfloor gas turbine powering GTOs for door operation. Osmium-Barium alloy bodywork for crashworthiness.

 

[waterboo]

People have given me a variety of carriages to model out.
I am very happy to model all of them, weather it is intercity, commuter or first class. I will be doing them 1 by one. Hopefully, as the holidays are coming up i will have plenty of time to do this come wednesday. I dont know about you guys, but i am really exicted about this.

What would also be nice is deisgn features.
How can i make the interior look better. Do you have any suggestions to improve the aestetics. Also, if any of you want the modelling file please PM me.

Many Thanks,
Working on it as i type this (and eat chlli con carnie )
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I do think the RABe 535 would be a good starting point for a regional unit. (Obv to UK size)

Is a Bombardier/Alstom joint build - they sound rather nice too, like a deeper 323 (Traction is a Holec design)

No stranger to these trains, but if im right, the track gauge is a hell of a lot bigger than uk gauge btw. Nice design and motor however! Its a sexy little minx.

 

[rebmcr]

No stranger to these trains, but if im right, the track gauge is a hell of a lot bigger than uk gauge btw. Nice design and motor however! Its a sexy little minx.

The track gauge is identical at 1435mm. The loading gauge is bigger.

 

[straller]

The supercaps will not provide full traction power, but just enough to get the speed to about 10 mph.

So what do you think about this?

 

[The Ham]

I don't think it's a universal solution, but it is a solution to the 'regional express' level which (apart from the 444s and 175s) has been neglected since privatisation in terms of new train orders.

If you had a modular design, you could have a regional express set up (akin to the 444's) which by changing the type of end coaches the set had could be run at the higher speeds intercity services require. OK, you may want some extra features (buffet car) and some engineering improvements (higher rated motors) for the intercity sets, but basicly the seating and the layout for one would work well in the other.

You could even have end coaches which coupled onto a regional express set to make it an intercity train if you so wished (although that maybe taking it too far).

 

[Rhydgaled]

If you had a modular design, you could have a regional express set up (akin to the 444's) which by changing the type of end coaches the set had could be run at the higher speeds intercity services require. OK, you may want some extra features (buffet car) and some engineering improvements (higher rated motors) for the intercity sets, but basicly the seating and the layout for one would work well in the other.

You could even have end coaches which coupled onto a regional express set to make it an intercity train if you so wished (although that maybe taking it too far).

I suppose you could do that yes. Even the buffet car might be of use on some of the busier regional express routes, just need more power and different (pointy) end vehicles for the INTERCITY version.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

A B&M bargains and my favorite couch duplicated as seats on board wouldn't go amiss.

 

[59CosG95]

We seemed to be making some real headway with this, shame it's stalled! (joking apart) Does anyone know what software is being used to create the 3D models of the coaches?