7 car southern train

[FGWman]

Was at Clapham Junction and the 1553 to Ore and Littlehampton was shown as 8 cars. Fron 4 for Ore Read 4 for Littlehampton. Problem was it was only 7 cars. A 3 car connected to a 4 car.

Now I did not know there were 3 car southern emus so that was a new one for me. The other problem was the on board system was saying front 4 for Ore. So thats 3 cars from the front unit and 1 car from the rear unit. Like to see that happen

 

[MCR247]

Southern have about 28(?) 377/3s. They also have 313s but it wouldn't have been one of those

 

[class377man]

Southern have about 15(?) 377/3s. They also have 313s but it wouldn't have been one of those

Southern have 28 377/3s.

I thought my train went past a 7 car 377 on Monday but assumed I was just mistaken. It seems I might not have been.

 

[Fincra5]

Stock is all over the place atm, some is being repaired for motor damage. My 12.31 from Eastbourne to Haywards heath (ore-vic) was 3car instead of 4, you really notice. Normally people don't need to stand on that service but they did today.

 

[Viscount]

SouthEastern have some 3 car 375s as well. Really cannot understand where even number standardisation went to.

 

[466.networkers]

SouthEastern have some 3 car 375s as well. Really cannot understand where even number standardisation went to.

This link will explain all regarding the Electrostar numbering ...

 

[Viscount]

This link will explain all regarding the Electrostar numbering ...

No - what I meant was that in the recent past everything was in multiples of twos. We had 2HAP and 2EPB, which would couple with 4CEP, 4CIG, 4VEP - you get the picture.....

Now we seem to have 2,3,4,5 (and 6 if you count the 442s) car sets, many of which can't be coupled to others as the "standard" fleet. And heaven help you if you want to couple a diesel loco (if you can find one) on the front to get you out of trouble in the snow.......

(please see later note re 442s - I meant 395s!)

 

[MCR247]

442s are 5 car

 

[Sun Chariot]

And heaven help you if you want to couple a diesel loco on the front to get you out of trouble in the snow

Ah, the 1980's! When a heavy coating of ice and snow would produce of a 33, a 47 or even a 56 clagging at the head of Southern Region's Mk1 slammers.

Of course, the frozen commuters weren't pleased when it was a 56 or non-ETH 47...

 

[swt_passenger]

No, 442s are 5 x 23m cars, not 6 cars. The theory at the time was that the two of the longer units running together, ie 230m in all, were a better choice for the Waterloo - Weymouth route as the fleet was sized to account for the splits at Bournemouth. When separated they provided about the same capacity as half a 12 x 20m train would have. Using 3 x 4 car units would have led to either 4 or 8 cars going on to Weymouth, and 4 was thought too small, and 8 too big. They must have been happy with that solution because the replacement unit, the 444, is basically just the same.

Southeastern, on the other hand, ended up with a mix of 5, 4, 3 and 2 car 375 units because of an earlier ill fated plan to lengthen many of their platforms to '10 car', ie 200m. The different units were to allow for many combinations during the transition from mainly 8 car to mainly 10 car.
Not only that but they also allow for any routes eventually lengthened to 12 car. Unfortunately the work is only just starting now...

 

[MCR247]

There are no 2 car 375s

 

[swt_passenger]

There are no 2 car 375s

Sorry - got carried away when reading the earlier post. I thought he was referring to SE...

 

[466.networkers]

Well, with Southern and Southeastern, it's fairly simple as you only have 2 or 3 train families which can couple to other members of the same family (with a few emergency exceptions).

Southeastern:
Class 375s can couple to other 375s and 376s only.
Class 465 and 466 can couple to other 465/466s only as well as Class 365s and 319s (in an emergency only)

Southern:
Class 377 can couple to 377s (as well as 171s in an emergency)
Class 442s can couple to 442s (as well as other trains with buckeye couplers ?)

 

[Waddon]

I saw an 11 car recently at East Croydon (4+4+3)
So I've seen every EMU combination at that station up to 12 except single car now

 

[jopsuk]

Southeasterns 375s can couple (and run with) 377s- the first batches of 377s were originally 375s, with Tightlock couplers (in order to be able to couple to slammers), and were renumbered by Southern as they were converted with Dellners. Southeastern didn't renumber, but have done the same conversion. If it wasn't a hilariously uneconomic thing to do, it would make operational sense for Southern and Southeastern (barring High Speed) to run fleets solely of 376s and 377s- I'm sure Bombardier would be able to supply two-carriage configurations if pushed, and an "airport" interior would be mere fit-out

(there's also no 5 car 375s or 377s, as seemed to be implied)

 

[ushawk]

I think theres been a few 3-car 377's running with other 4-car units recently on Southern, 14.58 EBN - HHE/VIC the other day was a 3 car.

With 11 car 377's, pretty rare i think.

 

[MCR247]

Southeasterns 375s can couple (and run with) 377s- the first batches of 377s were originally 375s, with Tightlock couplers (in order to be able to couple to slammers),

Only 377/3s were delivered as 375s I thought?

 

[Viscount]

Sorry - got carried away when reading the earlier post. I thought he was referring to SE...

You're right - I was. Which is probably why I referred to the 442s as having 6 cars when I actually meant the SE's 495s which are 6 vehicles - albeit short ones!

 

[MCR247]

*395s

 

[Viscount]

(there's also no 5 car 375s or 377s, as seemed to be implied)

But there are plenty of 5 car 376s.

And MCR247 - yup. I think I preferred the old terminologies!

 

[swt_passenger]

There's a video doing the rounds that explains another reason why they might need a three car unit...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jta4c9FMmCA

 

[Fincra5]

There's a video doing the rounds that explains another reason why they might need a three car unit...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jta4c9FMmCA

Wow, how is that even possible?!?! I was told the max length that electrostars could run is 12cars otherwise MCBs blow everywhere

Seems they were wrong.

 

[pendolino]

Wow, how is that even possible?!?! I was told the max length that electrostars could run is 12cars otherwise MCBs blow everywhere

Seems they were wrong.

True enough, max CLI anywhere in the south-east is 16 (I think) but if you read the description on that video, 3 of the units had lost their shoe gear so wouldn't be drawing any traction current.

 

[Fincra5]

Ahh, now i see, they would probably just be dead in tow. Its interesting, if a 313 couples to a failed one it is able to powerup the failed 313. I was told with 377s it doesn't power them up just shares the braking and minor electrical systems.

 

[pendolino]

Ahh, now i see, they would probably just be dead in tow. Its interesting, if a 313 couples to a failed one it is able to powerup the failed 313. I was told with 377s it doesn't power them up just shares the braking and minor electrical systems.

There are 110v control circuits between 377 units in multiple (via the AECB, Auto Electrical Coupling Block, beneath the Dellner) but no 750v connections. I don't know about 313s but I imagine they're the same - 110v control circuits only (as on e.g., 455/456).

 

[Fincra5]

I'm not sure, even though I work them But they can still power up the other unit, not sure how...

 

[pendolino]

Do you mean one unit can provide power to aux on when the batteries on another unit are dead?

If there's 750V between units (or 25kV if the pan is up on a 313) I imagine it would arc and make a bit of a mess every time you couple up.

 

[chuffchuff]

The computers on a 375 can only handle 3 units coupled together ( eg 3x4 car or 3x3 car )
To put the 23 car train together as in the vid, you have to go throught the train
tripping out the computers in each coach of each unit, to fool the train into believing
it only has 3 units, a 12 car or 11 car.

 

[thefab444]

That's interesting, 377s can definately handle four units being coupled together as there are some 4 x 3 car workings booked.

 

[Pumbaa]

That's interesting, 377s can definately handle four units being coupled together as there are some 4 x 3 car workings booked.

Actually they can do 5; there was a regular 5x/3 ECS working from Lovers Walk to Selhurst and opposite balancing movement twice a week, but I'm not sure if it still runs. I think it got chopped and changed sometime last year with changes to the Coastway diagrams and more /3s up in London.