5 Class 350s Flood Damaged

[Geeves]

Just for my own interest I had a look at couple of the mileages of the various 350s, I am/was of the mind set that it seems crazy that they wont be fixed however

For example

350113 - 3257864 miles
350233 - 2465921 miles
350242 - 2472108 miles

For comparisons sakes 142001 had done 2970611 miles for its entire life along with recently retired 150250 at 3476790 miles

That just shows how much these units are hammered every single day, even if they were retired the ROSCO has already had an average 30 year span in 15 to 20 years

Just thought it was interesting to see.

 

[185]

I wonder if the big bill about to land on Mr Dominic Booth's desk will result in a sudden desire to pass up the franchise to G.B.R.

Oh you conspiracy theorist ....besides, the one doing the rounds last week was....

"bet she was gonna sack West Mids until that flood, now she's making sure they [WMT] pay the bill before they get binned off".

 

[Russel]

Just for my own interest I had a look at couple of the mileages of the various 350s, I am/was of the mind set that it seems crazy that they wont be fixed however

For example

350113 - 3257864 miles
350233 - 2465921 miles
350242 - 2472108 miles

For comparisons sakes 142001 had done 2970611 miles for its entire life along with recently retired 150250 at 3476790 miles

That just shows how much these units are hammered every single day, even if they were retired the ROSCO has already had an average 30 year span in 15 to 20 years

Just thought it was interesting to see.

Where did you get the milage from, I didn't know that kind of information was available.

Got to give Siemens credit, the Desiro is clearly a quality product.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Just for my own interest I had a look at couple of the mileages of the various 350s, I am/was of the mind set that it seems crazy that they wont be fixed however

For example

350113 - 3257864 miles
350233 - 2465921 miles
350242 - 2472108 miles

For comparisons sakes 142001 had done 2970611 miles for its entire life along with recently retired 150250 at 3476790 miles

That just shows how much these units are hammered every single day, even if they were retired the ROSCO has already had an average 30 year span in 15 to 20 years

Just thought it was interesting to see.

Very interesting and they've proven to be very reliable as well given the high mileages. The component at main risk presumably was the traction converters and control equipment as forced air ventilated. The transformer would be a sealed unit and designed to contain oil at high pressure so should be well protected against water ingress depending on where the breathers are located.

 

[modernrail]

Very interesting and they've proven to be very reliable as well given the high mileages. The component at main risk presumably was the traction converters and control equipment as forced air ventilated. The transformer would be a sealed unit and designed to contain oil at high pressure so should be well protected against water ingress depending on where the breathers are located.

Super interesting. Are those mileages unusually high for units of that age?

I have always heard lifespan quoted in terms of years, say 35 for an EMU and 30 for a DMU. Is mileage a much more accurate indicator of when something is likely to need to be retired?

Does that also mean that higher utilisation might enable you to sweat the asset earlier on but ultimately means your replacement bill is just coming sooner?

I expect there are loads of relevant variables including quality of build but any rules of thumb would be interesting to know.

 

[Peter Sarf]

These days it seems corrosion can be a definer of life span. Diesel obviously wears out sooner then electric where we are seeing availability of spares as a life limiter. Spares availability affects the 465s and 466s I believe. As newer units are a lot more complex I think obsolete parts in the form of electronics becomes more of a factor nowadays. I do not believe the 350s are at that stage yet though.

 

[Russel]

Noticed a lot of Trent Valley cancellations this morning on RTT, all overrunning engineering works or unknown reason, is this due to a lack of 350s?

 

[800001]

Noticed a lot of Trent Valley cancellations this morning on RTT, all overrunning engineering works or unknown reason, is this due to a lack of 350s?

Line is blocked near Polesworth, due a damaged overhead stanchion, caused by a slight landslip over the weekend

 

[Russel]

Line is blocked near Polesworth, due a damaged overhead stanchion, caused by a slight landslip over the weekend

That explains the replacement bus service from Tamworth to Nuneaton then.

 

[modernrail]

These days it seems corrosion can be a definer of life span. Diesel obviously wears out sooner then electric where we are seeing availability of spares as a life limiter. Spares availability affects the 465s and 466s I believe. As newer units are a lot more complex I think obsolete parts in the form of electronics becomes more of a factor nowadays. I do not believe the 350s are at that stage yet though.

Interesting. Thanks Peter!

 

[Liam L]

Hopefully they can get some more 730s (or stored 323s) on West Midlands domestics to free up 350s for LNWR services

There isn't any 350 use on west midlands locals anymore I don't think

 

[warwickshire]

There isn't any 350 use on west midlands locals anymore I don't think

Some of the late night Birmingham to Coventry stoppers still are.

 

[Chriso]

There isn't any 350 use on west midlands locals anymore I don't think

Oh wow that is interesting. Apologies I didn’t know the 730 introduction was so advanced

 

[Merle Haggard]

Just for my own interest I had a look at couple of the mileages of the various 350s, I am/was of the mind set that it seems crazy that they wont be fixed however

For example

350113 - 3257864 miles
350233 - 2465921 miles
350242 - 2472108 miles

For comparisons sakes 142001 had done 2970611 miles for its entire life along with recently retired 150250 at 3476790 miles

That just shows how much these units are hammered every single day, even if they were retired the ROSCO has already had an average 30 year span in 15 to 20 years

Just thought it was interesting to see.

It's a long time since I was involved (last decades of previous century...) but, for locos, the deciding factor then was TOPS hours. Once they hit 10,000 it was a heavy (and costly, when BREL did it) overhaul.
Does that obligation apply to e.m.u. - or indeed to any traction - now? Or is it just run them?

 

[IanXC]

Just for my own interest I had a look at couple of the mileages of the various 350s, I am/was of the mind set that it seems crazy that they wont be fixed however

For example

350113 - 3257864 miles
350233 - 2465921 miles
350242 - 2472108 miles

For comparisons sakes 142001 had done 2970611 miles for its entire life along with recently retired 150250 at 3476790 miles

That just shows how much these units are hammered every single day, even if they were retired the ROSCO has already had an average 30 year span in 15 to 20 years

Just thought it was interesting to see.

I don't think those figures will be accurate for ex BR fleets. I believe the data is from the start of that recording system rather than the start of the units working lives.

 

[Falcon1200]

Does that obligation apply to e.m.u. - or indeed to any traction - now? Or is it just run them?

During my time of responsibility for DMU and EMU allocation (which sadly ceased in 1994 with privatisation) all levels of maintenance were mileage based, hence requiring accurate records of what each unit did every day. And, when disruption occurred, much swapping of units to get them to finish in the right place without exceeding their permitted mileage. Units coming close to exam were carefully allocated to get them to Depot at the appropriate time and having run the right mileage.

 

[Merle Haggard]

During my time of responsibility for DMU and EMU allocation (which sadly ceased in 1994 with privatisation) all levels of maintenance were mileage based, hence requiring accurate records of what each unit did every day. And, when disruption occurred, much swapping of units to get them to finish in the right place without exceeding their permitted mileage. Units coming close to exam were carefully allocated to get them to Depot at the appropriate time and having run the right mileage.

Thanks, informative.
I'm not sure, but I think that loco hauled coaching stock also had mileage shown on their T.O.P.S.record so perhaps the division of treatment hours/miles was loco/coaches including emu/dmu.

 

[SargeNpton]

Billing Aquadrome, as its name suggests, is adjacent to the river. It was originally intended as a sum mer time holiday rssort, which then developed into mobile homes to stay in for a holiday to all round living accommodation. I live not too far away (but about 150' higher, deliberately) and can hear the flood warning sirens. It's flood about 4 times in the past year.




That's the odd think about this flood. The 1998 one devastated the St. James area behind the station, as you remember, but did not flood the station; but this time, although the station was flooded the St James area itself was seemingly unaffected - there's some sheltered housing behind the station (and behind the wall of the flood relief channel) and well below the level of the station; they seem to have totally escaped flood damage - best evidence is that there's potted plants in the front gardens apparently unaffected.

It would be interesting to see the flood warning area chart; did it reflect the contours? I would have thought that, if it did, it would show the higher ground at the station as above the flood level.

After the 1998 floods, defences were built on the west side of the river to protect the houses that had been flooded by 10 feet or more of water*. As those same houses were barely affected this time round the flood defences seem to have done the job they were designed for.

However, the water has to go somewhere else and, with no flood defences on the east side of the river, and the law of unforeseen consequences, I am willing to guess that it was the railway that bore the brunt.

*even a couple of hundred yards away from the river, buildings had up to 5 feet of water - as marked by a plaque showing the tide mark in the Thomas a Becket pub.

 

[Silverlinky]

Where did you get the milage from, I didn't know that kind of information was available.

Got to give Siemens credit, the Desiro is clearly a quality product.

I would assume these figures are taken from the digital counter in each cab of a unit, however worth pointing out that the figures on those are in km not miles, so the actual mileage is lower, for example 350113 will have done just over 2 million miles in its 19 year lifespan.

 

[waveyswirley]

Does anyone know if the LNR service to London Euston from Crewe has been short-formed because of the damaged trains? Doing this journey next week and I have a feeling it will be busy even with a long train, especially the return trip on Fri 20th Dec because that's one day before the freshly announced strikes

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does anyone know if the LNR service to London Euston from Crewe has been short-formed because of the damaged trains? Doing this journey next week and I have a feeling it will be busy even with a long train, especially the return trip on Fri 20th Dec because that's one day before the freshly announced strikes

There are fairly random short-forms, yes. You might want to use tiger.worldline.global to see what formation is used on the one you wanted to use (it should work for both Crewe and Euston) on each day this week and hope it's the same.

The other thing that seems to have happened is more 730 diagrams on the south WCML - in particular the 0656 Bletchley-Euston and the continuing diagram from there has gone back to 730s, it was 350s for a while, and at least one of the peak extra fast Northamptons was 730 on Tuesday as well (90mph units on the fast lines must be a pain pathing wise!)

 

[TMD Tom]

Two 350/2 that had been handed back have been put back into service, and one of the flooded 350s is expected back in service from Monday. 2x730 are covering the remainder, so the aim is to be level from next week.

 

[Russel]

Two 350/2 that had been handed back have been put back into service,

Wow, that's fast... we all know of the glacial pace things like that normally take on the railway!

and one of the flooded 350s is expected back in service from Monday.

Guessing the damage wasn't as bad as first though then?

 

[43096]

Guessing the damage wasn't as bad as first though then?

Or there were the usual hyperbolic statements after the event before the engineers had even done a full assessment.

 

[Merle Haggard]

There seem to be only two 350s (both, I think, 350/2s) now stabled behind the 3212s in the former Up Yard at Northampton. From the above it seems like the two flood-damaged 350/2s will not return to service being replaced by the 2 seat off lease being returned, and the other three are currently under repair.
Off lease 350 240/253 are still in the former South end Up side bay at Rugby, so mitts not those that have come back.

 

[Wolfie]

There seem to be only two 350s (both, I think, 350/2s) now stabled behind the 3212s in the former Up Yard at Northampton. From the above it seems like the two flood-damaged 350/2s will not return to service being replaced by the 2 seat off lease being returned, and the other three are currently under repair.
Off lease 350 240/253 are still in the former South end Up side bay at Rugby, so mitts not those that have come back.

It may not be the immediate priority but I'm sure the ROSCO that owns them will want them repaired.

 

[Merle Haggard]

It may not be the immediate priority but I'm sure the ROSCO that owns them will want them repaired.

Yes, I realise that, just meant there's not the urgency to get those two back into service with LNw. They will probably never see service with LNw again but all the 350/2s surely will go to back into service somewhere.

 

[Wolfie]

Yes, I realise that, just meant there's not the urgency to get those two back into service with LNw. They will probably never see service with LNw again but all the 350/2s surely will go to back into service somewhere.

Ok, we are in violent agreement it seems lol....

 

[RealTrains07]

There seem to be only two 350s (both, I think, 350/2s) now stabled behind the 3212s in the former Up Yard at Northampton. From the above it seems like the two flood-damaged 350/2s will not return to service being replaced by the 2 seat off lease being returned, and the other three are currently under repair.
Off lease 350 240/253 are still in the former South end Up side bay at Rugby, so mitts not those that have come back.

I thought this would be the case with the /2 units that were flood damaged. Easiest solution was to swap them for 2 off lease units.

Good to hear repairs have started and that the other flood damaged ones will be returning to service in the near future hopefully

 

[Russel]

Loosing track of what the situation is with these, cany anyone confirm, how many 350's are out of traffic with flood damage and how many off lease 350/2s have been put back into service?