455 fire West Croydon

[ComUtoR]

As far I'm now aware (as a signaller) drivers are not allowed to paddle up and or remove shoe fuses, it's a job for fitters now. Maybe a driver from GTR can confirm either way?

Paddle up yes, remove fuses no. I'd have to speak to our recent Trainee's about paddling up but I've certainly been show how to do it. The paddles are still considered essential equipment on PB. Fuses aren't. Our extinguishers are also AFFF.

700's have AFFF extinguishers in the carriages.

 

[OFFDN]

Pan or third rail, still need to isolate. That fire would have been out before the boys with the big hoses appeared had the staff been there. It would have been out on mine for sure.

Oh really? And you know this for a fact?

Because internal messages at the time of the incident stated the driver believed he could deal with the fire in the auxiliary fuse cupboard by himself... but he couldn't, and the fire brigade had to be called, not to mention the fact the fire reignited too at one point.

 

[Robertj21a]

Pan or third rail, still need to isolate. That fire would have been out before the boys with the big hoses appeared had the staff been there. It would have been out on mine for sure.

There's no getting away from it. Better off with trained staff.

You sound like a rather dangerous person to have around - so much for having trained staff !

 

[bengley]

Paddle up yes, remove fuses no. I'd have to speak to our recent Trainee's about paddling up but I've certainly been show how to do it. The paddles are still considered essential equipment on PB. Fuses aren't. Our extinguishers are also AFFF.

700's have AFFF extinguishers in the carriages.

Not allowed to do either anymore

 

[tsr]

Will the wiring likely be the original wiring that was in place when they were built?

Can't confirm for sure, in this case, but there's certainly some pretty old stuff on 455s, particularly where it doesn't relate to doors and air handling (controls of which been modified since original construction). However, each unit will have had periodic exams and this sort of thing should get checked fairly regularly.

I had an electrical fire on mine once. It didn't burst into flames, but it was a close run thing.

Monitor, move people away, get into the nearest station, get people off, get the driver to drop the pan and isolate, put fire out or monitor. Why did nobody do this? Mind you, Was there a guard on board who could handle the situation I wonder?

Southern 455s have no pantographs or guards. There may have been no passengers immediately next to the fire, as it was an off-peak working.

There were passengers in the coach. Where exactly they were at each point is something for GTR to investigate.

As for no guards - correct (usually) on this service. But it should be pointed out that conductor operation remains in place on some Southern 455s (any which run to Horsham or Guildford, or via Imperial Wharf). Additionally, there are many services normally worked by DOO 455s on which conductors are booked to travel "pass", but in which case they can and do end up assisting with emergencies.

Is it hell. I could have ****ed that out as long as it was isolated. Mind you, I have heard the rumour that fire extinguishers have been removed from trains with no staff. Someone said the drunken public kept setting them off. Perhaps someone could confirm this.

You really are safer with a second member of staff.

Pan or third rail, still need to isolate. That fire would have been out before the boys with the big hoses appeared had the staff been there. It would have been out on mine for sure.

There's no getting away from it. Better off with trained staff.

there have been situations where rail staff have gone into a carriage on fire and been overcome with the smoke. i would have to assess it before just playing super hero (when no public are at risk)with a fire extinguisher.

455s have a couple of banks of large fire extinguishers in each cab/cab vestibule, but physics34 and OFFDN have correctly posted, it would have been extremely hard or impossible for a member of train crew to put this one out. At least one previous fire on a multiple unit on the Southern network (or, rather, one of its predecessors) saw a member of staff lose their life after trying to tackle it; sometimes it is neither possible nor worth the risk.

I'm not sure if you're actually aware of the configuration of a 455 body-end cupboard, but it's a fairly large space and more than enough surface area for a serious fire to take hold in there before starting to make itself properly felt and visible in the saloon. Just like what I suspect happened with the fire on the 377 at Eastbourne (partly from photos seen on here, in fact, as well as others), this fire probably spread within the void behind the interior panels before the full facts became known.

Once the driver was aware of a fire (which, at that stage, would probably have caused various fault symptoms in the driving cab before too long anyway), it seems like their first priority was to make an emergency call and then evacuate the train at West Croydon, where it was stood - that was the first set of actions I was made aware of. This was a good move.

Lastly, what I'd also say is that certain stock does need a number of further actions taken to make some of the covered electrical equipment safe before approaching it, for example in the event of fires in body-end cupboards. Isolation is not always enough. Even diesel stock is not immune to this.

Can the equipment cupboard be isolated internally or would the driver have to paddle up and tie off each shoe in turn (would just the removal of all shoe fuses be enough to properly isolate)?

In this case, fitters needed to be dispatched to isolate the relevant shoe gear.

Does newer stock have the capability for shoe circuit breakers to be operated from the TMS?

You can do various things, including remotely raising the shoes, on some stock but the ability for fitters to remove shoes in-situ generally remains.

455s are relatively primitive beasts, and as you probably know, don't even have TMSs.