377/6

[Class377/5]

I just assumed they wouldn't run the 3+3+4 formation now there's the 5+5s.

So did I but told there is 10 car none /6 workings.

 

[TEW]

Only one of the two West Croydon via Forest Hill diagrams are covered by 377/6s and even then only the evening part, so I expect the rest of those services will go back to 3+3+4 as will the East Grinstead diagram currently being worked by 377/6s.

 

[physics34]

Just thinking about it I guess it makes sense really...

3 car - 377/3
4 car - 377/1, 2 or 4
5 car - 377/6
6 car - 2 x 377/3
7 car - 377/3 + 377/1, 2 or 4
8 car - 2 x 377/1, 2 or 4
9 car - 3 x 377/3
10 car - 2 x 377/6
11 car - 2 x 377/1, 2 or 4 + 1 x 377/3
12 car - 3 x 377/1, 2 or 4.

wonder if we'll ever see a 12 car formed 377/3 + 377/1,2 or 4 + 377/6
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Only one of the two West Croydon via Forest Hill diagrams are covered by 377/6s and even then only the evening part, so I expect the rest of those services will go back to 3+3+4 as will the East Grinstead diagram currently being worked by 377/6s.

do you know which one ? (what time does it leave selhurst depot.)?

 

[TEW]

1706 LBG-WCY and 1806 LBG-WCY should be 377/6s from what I've seen, that might not necessarily be from Monday mind but from when the full fleet is in service. That leaves 2 10-car diagrams in the mornings working Norwood Junction-London Bridge services and the evening 1636, 1736, 1836 diagram, which I presume will both be covered by 3+3+4, as they were prior to the introduction of the 377/6s.

 

[andy19_64]

There is a 10 car 3+3+4 running in the morning (new timetable) from Horsham to Victoria. This will berth in branch 3 or 4 at Horsham at night. not sure what time it will run as i am not at work till Sunday to check.

 

[Vicpaul]

There is a 10 car 3+3+4 running in the morning (new timetable) from Horsham to Victoria. This will berth in branch 3 or 4 at Horsham at night. not sure what time it will run as i am not at work till Sunday to check.

Won't be a 377/6 then

 

[Peter Sarf]

Saw what must have been the East Grinstead diagram near East Croydon at 11:40 this morning.

377608 parked at Selhurst at 11:40 next to the shad nearest to the East Croydon to London Bridge lines. Probably visible from Tennison Road bridge btw.

No other sightings today as have a busy day.

I will update my list.
That's at least 16 used BUT probably 17 (or 18 with 623) available for use now. But I suspect 623 might also be imminent or even out and about already as it was testing with 608 yesterday.
Three others down in the Southeast.
Leaving only five left to deliver.

 

[Class377/5]

624/625 out together on test this morning.

I caught 613 on the single working on is way to Sutton.

UPDATE:

New 377/6 came down last night. I don't know what unit yet.

Poster on WNXX has given some new information over the future Derby built units.

The first two 377/7 are complete. Will soon be on the test track before going to the WCML for 110mph testing. They no longer plan to use a 379 for this now.

The final 377/7 is due in the 2nd week of the 2014 financial year.

The 378 build is to have its first car in March.

The 387 order will start in the 8th week (end of May) with Southern have announced its expect the first unit in October.

He did tease that another order is soon to be placed with Bombardier and its not for the GOBLIN units.

 

[ert47]

619(leading)/621 departed Norwood Junction on 0832 service to London Bridge

 

[patstonuk]

624/625 out together on test this morning.

I caught 613 on the single working on is way to Sutton.

UPDATE:

New 377/6 came down last night. I don't know what unit yet.

Confirmed as 7626 to SL this morning.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I have updated my list.

That's at least 16 used by 05/12/2013.
Probably 18 available for use now (06/12/2013) because 608 has been to Selhurst (05/12/2013) and 623 had been seen testing with it the day before !.
Four others down in the Southeast including 610 which came down three weeks ago and I have just realised only got as far as Stewarts Lane so wondering what thats doing !..
Leaving only Four left to deliver (601, 602, 603 and 616).

No sightings from me today sorry as I have been nursing a cold in the warm

/""""""""\
:cry: /\ :cry:
\ . . /
. \_=_/
.

 

[Hophead]

He did tease that another order is soon to be placed with Bombardier and its not for the GOBLIN units.

Possibly the option on 387 (nee 377/8)? That's another 25 units or so?

 

[Class377/5]

Possibly the option on 387 (nee 377/8)? That's another 25 units or so?

35x 4 car units. Possible although one person.had mentioned Hull Trains who wouldn't mind a 125mph EMU design.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I have updated [
No sightings from me today sorry as I have been nursing a cold in the warm

Thanks to having to take my kids to their separately timed school discos today I was walking past near Epsom station six times this evening and saw 377 612 working what might have been the 19.20 Victoria - Dorking; that's not on the diagram list though. earlier the 16.17 Victoria - Horsham did run as a 377/6 as booked, but I could not see the number.

 

[Class377/5]

That would explain why when I left Victoria there was two units heading into Victoria.

Tomorrow is the last day of not having 377/6 booked in service. Monday should be interesting as I'm not sure what diagrams are going over to 377/6 operation from the final ones.

 

[samj]

Hi all, can anyone confirm if there are any 377/6s are out today?

 

[Bald Rick]

Whilst waiting for my train home from Croydon at 0920 this morning, I saw two on a Brighton-bound express.

 

[Class377/5]

From Yahoo groups...

377614/622 out on the Brighton runs today

And 377624/625 will be out shortly on the following runs

2L50 17:53 Victoria - East Grinstead
2L55 19:07 East Grinstead - Victoria
2L60 20:23 Victoria - East Grinstead
2L65 21:37 East Grinstead - Victoria

With the latter two makes 18 that will have been in service, just the right number for the new TT.

 

[southern442]

Will the 377/6's work all the Epsom Downs diagrams with the new timetable commencing tomorrow?

 

[JonathanH]

Will the 377/6's work all the Epsom Downs diagrams with the new timetable commencing tomorrow?

No. The list of eventual Monday to Friday workings is on the wnxx forum - "377/6 unveiled" - some will still be 45x for a few weeks.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

From Yahoo groups...

377614/622 out on the Brighton runs today

And 377624/625 will be out shortly on the following runs

2L50 17:53 Victoria - East Grinstead
2L55 19:07 East Grinstead - Victoria
2L60 20:23 Victoria - East Grinstead
2L65 21:37 East Grinstead - Victoria

With the latter two makes 18 that will have been in service, just the right number for the new TT.

377625 and 377624 sat in platform 15 displayed as 1753 to East Grinstead - announcement just confirming.

The previous East Grinstead round trip (1523) appears to have been a single 377/3.

 

[Mintona]

I know it's slight off-topic, but I have a couple of questions regarding the 377/7s.

Are they going to be the same as the 377/6s, just with one less coach?
What is the purpose of them - are they to replace 455s or to enhance other services to 8/12 coaches?
Why are they going to be capable of 110/115mph? I thought it was the 387s that were to moved on from Southern pretty quick, not the 377/7s. And if that's the case, I can't see any reason to design them to be faster than the other 377s.

 

[Manchester77]

No the 377/7s are 5 cars long and dual voltage so will be used on East Croydon - Milton Keynes services which will allow some 377/2s to go to FCC in May which will release 6 319s for northern

 

[Mintona]

Oh ok, that makes sense. Ideally those services should be 8 coaches though IMO, although I know there are capacity constraints along the WLL.

Another question - will the 377/5s ever end up with Southern? And will they replace 455s if they finally get there?

 

[Manchester77]

Oh ok, that makes sense. Ideally those services should be 8 coaches though IMO, although I know there are capacity constraints along the WLL.
Another question - will the 377/5s ever end up with Southern? And will they replace 455s if they finally get there?

They'll be a mixture of 5 and 8 coaches in May IIRC.

Well as stated in the TSGN ITT; southern will have to give a certain number of electrostar coaches to SouthEastern and that number roughly works out as the 377/1 fleet iirc so Southern and their successors will needed the 377/5s to replace the /1s

 

[Mintona]

It all seems very complicated. Why not just give the 377/5s straight to Southeastern?! Seems a more logical step than playing musical trains.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[southern442]

It all seems very complicated. Why not just give the 377/5s straight to Southeastern?! Seems a more logical step than playing musical trains.

Thanks for the replies.

It would be made much easier if the thameslink franchise swallowed the WHOLE of southeastern so they could play trains with the 377's :roll:

On a side note, people will shut up about first class on southern if we get the 377/5's instead

 

[swt_passenger]

It all seems very complicated. Why not just give the 377/5s straight to Southeastern?! Seems a more logical step than playing musical trains.

Basically, because in the TSGN the DfT have specified it as follows:

"...sub-lease 100 Class 377 vehicles (in 4-car formation, not being dual-voltage vehicles), at cost, to the Southeastern franchise."

377/1 or 377/4 would do, it is simply easiest to use the subset of 377/1s that has 100 vehicles, that way they'll all have the same interior layout. (There are 3 batches of 377/1s with slightly different interior layouts.)

Perhaps it is assumed that Southern will need more dual voltage capability than Southeastern in the mid term future?

 

[Mintona]

Basically, because in the TSGN the DfT have specified it as follows:

"...sub-lease 100 Class 377 vehicles (in 4-car formation, not being dual-voltage vehicles), at cost, to the Southeastern franchise."

377/1 or 377/4 would do, it is simply easiest to use the subset of 377/1s that has 100 vehicles, that way they'll all have the same interior layout. (There are 3 batches of 377/1s with slightly different interior layouts.)

Perhaps it is assumed that Southern will need more dual voltage capability than Southeastern in the mid term future?

Yeah I guess that must be the idea, although I can't see why Southern would need them too much when they already have /2s and /7s. It all seems unnecessary complicated to me though. Definitely agree that the whole Southeastern should be added to the TSGN franchise as well, especially as parts of it already are.

 

[ert47]

Don't think any pantos on the 375/6s have been used. Was about to ask why they havent been transferred over to FCC/SN, but then realised that they do not have the external CCTV enabling DOO in some stations without mirrors/platform dispatch. :/

 

[Class377/5]

I know it's slight off-topic, but I have a couple of questions regarding the 377/7s.

Are they going to be the same as the 377/6s, just with one less coach?
What is the purpose of them - are they to replace 455s or to enhance other services to 8/12 coaches?
Why are they going to be capable of 110/115mph? I thought it was the 387s that were to moved on from Southern pretty quick, not the 377/7s. And if that's the case, I can't see any reason to design them to be faster than the other 377s.

The 377/7 are to be tested to see of the 379/Aventra mkI design can handle 110mph as this I what the 387 will be based on.

Oh ok, that makes sense. Ideally those services should be 8 coaches though IMO, although I know there are capacity constraints along the WLL.

Another question - will the 377/5s ever end up with Southern? And will they replace 455s if they finally get there?

The platforms are limited on the WLL to five cars so having 8 cars now means three coaches are off the platforms. Will be awhile before the platforms are all 8 cars.

From July 2015 Southern will be taken over by the TSGN franchise so in 18 months they 'will be there' so to speak.

They'll be a mixture of 5 and 8 coaches in May IIRC.

Well as stated in the TSGN ITT; southern will have to give a certain number of electrostar coaches to SouthEastern and that number roughly works out as the 377/1 fleet iirc so Southern and their successors will needed the 377/5s to replace the /1s

There's 64x 377/1 so the 25 going to SE doesn't mean the entire fleet. However what's been said is there was three different builds of the 377/1 and one of them is for 25 units.

The 377s going to SE aren't to do with the 377/5 but the fact that under the original plan more Thameslink services were going to be on to SE turf so for SE to have a capacity increase now they require more units. Don't forget that post Jan 2018 they have to run services into the bay platforms so far have included Rochester and Orpington services. DfT expects the 8tph into the bay platforms at Blackfriars to be all SE now TSGN now.

Don't think any pantos on the 375/6s have been used. Was about to ask why they havent been transferred over to FCC/SN, but then realised that they do not have the external CCTV enabling DOO in some stations without mirrors/platform dispatch. :/

Thameslink is completely DOO so there no way they'd b able to take non DOO stock on especially as a temporary basis as its not worth the hassle.

Yeah I guess that must be the idea, although I can't see why Southern would need them too much when they already have /2s and /7s. It all seems unnecessary complicated to me though. Definitely agree that the whole Southeastern should be added to the TSGN franchise as well, especially as parts of it already are.

The parts of FCC that shred routes with SE is to be transferred to TSGN from next December. There are changes later.

Combining the whole of SE and TSGN is now not a good idea as they will have different operating centers means it reduces the advantages of the ROCs as well.

Don't forget that in the next 10 years there are plenty of changes including the possibility of putting the wires up on the currently Diesel routes Southern has along with the long term plan to put wires on the BML that has been the details become public for a larger distance of the line (ie south of Croydon) which requires dv stock.

The 377 will likely not completely leave Thameslink duties until after the 319 and 387 fleets (unless the bidders have other plans that affect the cascades) meaning Southern will require the /2 and /7 for some years.

Note out of the 8x 377/7 the WLL service only requires 3 with the other diagram going over to an 8 car 377/2 according to Modern Railways. Its currently 5 diagrams but looks like some changes will be made as the currently ones aren't wholly WLL duties. That mean even with a few spares southern still has 3x 377/7 spare for Metro work along with 2-3x 377/2.

The final plan rumored is 1tph to Milton Keynes and 1tph to Watford. That requires a total of 14 dv units with the 377/2 & /5 having a total of 38 units. Even with spares this means around 20-22 more than needed. Putting the OHLE via Hastings and Uckfield might use up these units while allowing for some train lengthening to go on. And that's without the 8x 377/7 units.