377/6

[swt_passenger]

...bit like the SWT class 444 fleet mileage is near to the max charge band and so they use 450s that don't run up such a high mileage on weekdays.

That theory was flatly denied by SWT though, shortly after Roger Ford raised it in his magazine...

 

[Peter Sarf]

Good point jopsuk. The exterior doors of a 376 (& 378) are apparently far more reliable so why not use them. The seating layout of a 378 I hate as you cannot look out of the windows (all seats are backs to the sides of the coach for those who have not partaken). Cab ends with gangway connection I agree with although I think the 455s (perhaps SWT only ?) have had them blanked off so rather too "Metro" for my liking !.

You are steering me towards accepting the 377/6s are not just for "Metro" service .

Oh yes thanks swt_passenger - sorry naughty boy I forgot to say Roger Ford in Modern Railways Informed Sources was my source re the 444s vs 450s charges. And I believe him (have I overlooked a correction ?).

 

[swt_passenger]

Good point jopsuk. The exterior doors of a 376 (& 378) are apparently far more reliable so why not use them. The seating layout of a 378 I hate as you cannot look out of the windows (all seats are backs to the sides of the coach for those who have not partaken). Cab ends with gangway connection I agree with although I think the 455s (perhaps SWT only ?) have had them blanked off so rather too "Metro" for my liking !.

You are steering me towards accepting the 377/6s are not just for "Metro" service .

Oh yes thanks swt_passenger - sorry naughty boy I forgot to say Roger Ford in Modern Railways Informed Sources was my source re the 444s vs 450s charges. And I believe him (have I overlooked a correction ?).

I recall that SWT denied it in answer to a webchat question a few weeks later, but the webchat text doesn't survive online.

 

[D365]

I recall that SWT denied it in answer to a webchat question a few weeks later, but the webchat text doesn't survive online.

This 'removal' also happened where SWT had written they were going to replace the Desiros but actually meant that they won't be...

 

[Class377/5]

Bit of rambling conjecture on my part but here goes :-
Does make me think the 377/6s will never have first class markings. After all a 377/6 sandwiched between a 377/3 and a 377/4(or/1) would be twelve cars and enough first class for the weekend ?. Why use 377/6s to Brighton on a weekend anyway though ?. Surely there are enough of the older 377s (/1,/2,/3 &/4). Unless the hire charges are less for the 377/6s - bit like the SWT class 444 fleet mileage is near to the max charge band and so they use 450s that don't run up such a high mileage on weekdays (EDIT source Roger Ford in Modern Railways Informed Sources).

I suppose the above sort of applies to 10 car East Grinstead workings as one 377/3 and a 377/6 would be 8 cars. Long enough at weekends ?. Hands off our sockets btw !.

My info is the 377/6 will work in pairs at weekends with 10 car 377/6 replacing 9 car 377/3.

The 377/6 usage is to reduce the high mileage on the 377/3 fleet by reducing their booked mileage.

 

[southern442]

My info is the 377/6 will work in pairs at weekends with 10 car 377/6 replacing 9 car 377/3.

The 377/6 usage is to reduce the high mileage on the 377/3 fleet by reducing their booked mileage.

I think for the 1st class area they could have at least put all of the seats round tables..

 

[swt_passenger]

This 'removal' also happened where SWT had written they were going to replace the Desiros but actually meant that they won't be...

That's somewhat different, that was a single dubious answer, which anyone with common sense would have realised was a simple typo by the person replying. (I'm not condoning the removal, they should have just amended it.)

What I was referring to is that the entire web chat transcripts are usually removed by the time the next 6 monthly 'chat' takes place.

 

[D365]

That's somewhat different, that was a single dubious answer, which anyone with common sense would have realised was a simple typo by the person replying. (I'm not condoning the removal, they should have just amended it.)

What I was referring to is that the entire web chat transcripts are usually removed by the time the next 6 monthly 'chat' takes place.

Strange because FCC (and others, I'm sure) haven't...

 

[47802]

Looks like Derby are getting two units (10 coaches) delivered each week as per what Class377/5 says (post #352) so all 377/6s should be delivered by the end of 2013. That makes me wonder if the 387s are coming before May-Nov 2015. May-Nov 2014 seems possible as there are only 8 377/7s to build between December 2013 and the 387s. Of course I am ignoring any other stock being built and lead times for components.

I think the additional Class 378 coaches for TFL are to be built before the 387's

 

[southern442]

I think the additional Class 378 coaches for TFL are to be built before the 387's

Will the 387's be mechanically the same as the 377's, just with 110mph top speed?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Will the 387's be mechanically the same as the 377's, just with 110mph top speed?

Your post got me fooled so it did. You quoted a post about 378s which are er different inside. As for the 387s, I now realised you asked about, I know very little about but I feel they will be mechanicaly very similar to 377/6, 377/7 and 379.

Perhaps a new thread for the 387s ?. Any takers ?.

 

[D365]

Will the 387's be mechanically the same as the 377's, just with 110mph top speed?

Apart from the mechanical enhancements to enable a (future) 110mph top speed, I haven't heard anything to contradict this. Makes sense as the fleet will need to be cleared for service as soon as possible to allow the great cascade to begin, so of course until Class 700 Desiro City takes over, another Class 3x7 Electrostar build makes the most sense...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Your post got me fooled so it did. You quoted a post about 378s which are er different inside. As for the 387s, I now realised you asked about, I know very little about but I feel they will be mechanically very similar to 377/6, 377/7 and 379.

Again, aside from the enhancements to allow a 110mph top speed, I don't see why they'd be any much different, as that would mean they'd take longer to be cleared for Thameslink.

Perhaps a new thread for the 387s ?. Any takers ?.

There was at least one thread.

 

[southern442]

Your post got me fooled so it did. You quoted a post about 378s which are er different inside. As for the 387s, I now realised you asked about, I know very little about but I feel they will be mechanicaly very similar to 377/6, 377/7 and 379.

Perhaps a new thread for the 387s ?. Any takers ?.

I think that is a good idea.

 

[Manchester77]

Regarding delivering all the 377/6s on time, is it possible to deliver two at a time like in ten car formation??

 

[MCR247]

I believe when sets are being delivered, they are unbraked and so need braked wagons to form a part of the consist to balance this out. The double the amount of unbraked coaches in the formation, I assume you'd also have to double the amount of wagons, meaning you'd have a very long and heavy formation

(i'm not anywhere near 100% sure that what I have said is accurate, but I recall reading something like that when the 380s were first being delivered!)

 

[Manchester77]

Never thought of that, thanks!

 

[southern442]

Your post got me fooled so it did. You quoted a post about 378s which are er different inside. As for the 387s, I now realised you asked about, I know very little about but I feel they will be mechanicaly very similar to 377/6, 377/7 and 379.

Perhaps a new thread for the 387s ?. Any takers ?.

I also think that to add a bit of variety, the 387s should have the newer light cluster on the 172s and 378s.

 

[Class377/5]

Just to state 377606 & 605 worked on the East Grinstead branch today, believed to have been all day by the person who spotted it.

And the units had first class.

 

[Vicpaul]

I can confirm the above and first class is bigger at the leading ends (36 seats)

Drove my first one today, some positives wond negatives from a driver's point of view.

 

[swt_passenger]

I can confirm the above and first class is bigger at the leading ends (36 seats)

Isn't it only at one end of a single unit? (Just going by previous descriptions of where the partition doors are?)

 

[Class377/5]

377/6 on the East Grinstead today. Believe the SU9xx diagrams are the 377/6 ones.


SU903 – 377604/SU904 – 377609

5R01 04+28 Selhurst – Balham
2R01 04:56 Balham – Victoria
2L04 06:24 Victoria – East Grinstead
2L07 07:36 East Grinstead – Victoria
2L14 08:53 Victoria – East Grinstead
2L19 10:07 East Grinstead – Victoria
2L24 11:23 Victoria – East Grinstead
2L29 12:37 East Grinstead – Victoria
2L34 13:53 Victoria – East Grinstead
2L39 15:07 East Grinstead – Victoria
2L44 16:23 Victoria – East Grinstead
2L49 17:37 East Grinstead – Victoria
2L54 18:53 Victoria – East Grinstead
2L59 20:07 East Grinstead – Victoria
2L64 21:23 Victoria – East Grinstead
2L69 22:37 East Grinstead – Victoria
2L74 23:49 Victoria – Oxted
5L74 00+37 Oxted – Selhurst Depot

The following also ran before they failed


377605/377606

5L51 04+50 Victoria – East Grinstead
2L51 05:55 East Grinstead – Victoria

 

[southern442]

I can confirm the above and first class is bigger at the leading ends (36 seats)

Drove my first one today, some positives wond negatives from a driver's point of view.

What was the first class like?

 

[Vicpaul]

I can confirm that first class appears to be at the leading and trailing ends of the units on a ten car which would total 72 positions. Power points are available and first class is partitioned off with inter carraige style doors

 

[southern442]

I can confirm that first class appears to be at the leading and trailing ends of the units on a ten car which would total 72 positions. Power points are available and first class is partitioned off with inter carraige style doors

Isn't there power points throughout the rest of the train?

 

[Vicpaul]

I haven't walked through I was in first class after being relieved at east Croydon. There maybe power points by doors but they aren't for public use. I will check next time

 

[Class377/5]

Power points are throughout the units.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I haven't walked through I was in first class after being relieved at east Croydon. There maybe power points by doors but they aren't for public use. I will check next time

As I said before there is a power point under the windows by every window seat as far as I can tell, regardless of class. Also "Class377/5" confirms this.

First class is at one end of each unit comprising 3/4 of the bit between the external doors 6 rows (around tables iirc) and then the 3 rows behind the cab. thats 9rows *4seats = 36 seats in a five car unit so a higher proportion than the 24 seats (?) in 4 car units I think. I looked today and even the London Bridge to west Croydon ones now have first class marked by a sticker on each window, stickers on the internal doors and the covers on the headrests. There is no yellow line outside above the windows and also I did not recall the digit 1 in a circle near the top of the external doors. I just had a good look today.

TODAYS SIGHTINGS :-

East Croydon
15:40 377(3+3+4 car) to East Grinstead
15:44 377604 + 377609 from East Grinstead

16:10 377(3+3+4 car) to East Grinstead
16:14 missed from East Grinstead

16:40 377609 + 377604 to East Grinstead = 15:44 from East Grinstead
16:44 377(4+4 car) from East Grinstead

17:10 377(4+4 car) to East Grinstead should = 16:14 from East Grinstead
17:14 cancelled from East Grinstead should = 15:40 to East Grinstead

I stopped as the 17:44 from East Grinstead SHOULD be the same as the 16:10 to East Grinstead. I worked out there are five trains on this service one every half hour as it takes 2 1/2 to repeat. At East croydon that is 1 hour from Victoria and 1 1/2 hours from East Grinstead.

West Croydon
17:42 377618 + 377606 to London Bridge
18:12 377613 + 377607 to London Bridge

In conclusion that is 6 units in service today on 3 trains:-
377604
377606
377607
377609
377613
377618
I note 605 and 606 failed in the morning and it looks like 618 has substituted 605 to appear on the West Croydon diagram in the evening (see quote below). So I guess 377605 was also in service until it failed.

I have updated my post number 321 listing whats in service.

........
The following also ran before they failed

377605/377606

5L51 04+50 Victoria – East Grinstead
2L51 05:55 East Grinstead – Victoria

"Class377/5" says in the rest of the post above that the rest of the day was worked by 604 and 609 which I also saw on his quoted diagram in the evening.

 

[Vicpaul]

604+609 made the 1353 and 1623 east grinsteads (from vic)

 

[Peter Sarf]

Oh and 377614 was apparently heading South on Saturday. Updated my post again.

 

[JonathanH]

........
The following also ran before they failed

377605/377606

5L51 04+50 Victoria – East Grinstead
2L51 05:55 East Grinstead – Victoria

"Class377/5" says in the rest of the post above that the rest of the day was worked by 604 and 609 which I also saw on his quoted diagram in the evening.

Not quite - different service. The 0654 Victoria to East Grinstead and 0749 East Grinstead to London Bridge were cancelled. The 0901 London Bridge to Horsham appears to have run with part of the 12-car which would otherwise have worked the 0828 London Bridge to Horsham judging by the platform use shown on realtimetrains. My sister rode on the 1759 London Bridge to Horsham and told me it was 6-377/3 (instead of 12-377/3).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

TODAYS SIGHTINGS :-

East Croydon
15:40 377(3+3+4 car) to East Grinstead
15:44 377604 + 377609 from East Grinstead

16:10 377(3+3+4 car) to East Grinstead
16:14 missed from East Grinstead

16:40 377609 + 377604 to East Grinstead = 15:44 from East Grinstead
16:44 377(4+4 car) from East Grinstead

17:10 377(4+4 car) to East Grinstead should = 16:14 from East Grinstead
17:14 cancelled from East Grinstead should = 15:40 to East Grinstead

I stopped as the 17:44 from East Grinstead SHOULD be the same as the 16:10 to East Grinstead. I worked out there are five trains on this service one every half hour as it takes 2 1/2 to repeat. At East croydon that is 1 hour from Victoria and 1 1/2 hours from East Grinstead.

West Croydon
17:42 377618 + 377606 to London Bridge
18:12 377613 + 377607 to London Bridge

In conclusion that is 6 units in service today on 3 trains:-
377604
377606
377607
377609
377613
377618
I note 605 and 606 failed in the morning and it looks like 618 has substituted 605 to appear on the West Croydon diagram in the evening (see quote below). So I guess 377605 was also in service until it failed.

Interesting observations. So it seems we have now have three diagrammed pairs - the use of 377/6s on the early East Grinstead service that would then have gone to Horsham could have been due to stock in the wrong place after the problems on Monday (as might the 10-coach on the 1523 Victoria to East Grinstead).

I was interested to see 377/6s on the 04.56 Balham to London Victoria and wondered what was previously allocated. The units on this used to go empty from Victoria to Dorking but now the 0659 from Dorking appears to be formed of units which spend the night at Dorking working down empty from Selhurst the night before - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W77174/2013/10/29/advanced.