365517,New Livery.

[user15681]

I don't think that that user has realised SouthEastern are due to have an extension until 2017 I think.

Off topic but June 2018 the new franchise is due to begin.

 

[philjo]

I saw both refurbished sets 365517 and 365525 coupled together operating as 8 cars towards London this evening. Just over an hour later they formed the middle & rear units of a 12 coach service towards Cambridge that overtook me on the approach to Hitchin.

 

[Hadders]

I travelled on 365517 on Monday between Stevenage and Kings Cross. The vinyl flooring was filthy with in-ground dirt which will require more than a wipe over with a mop to solve.

It seems that the flooring installed is far too light in colour compared to that seen on other trains.

I still think that carpet should have been used, the vinyl flooring cheapens the look, ok for an inner suburban train but not good on longer distance services to Peterborough, Cambridge or Kings Lynn.

 

[Skimble19]

Must admit the floor started looking filthy pretty quickly..

 

[samuelmorris]

I find this true of most modern stock - the S stock, 378s, the new 321 demonstrator, all seem to have very dirty floors very quickly. I try to look at other parts of the train to take my mind off that fact

 

[physics34]

I travelled on 365517 on Monday between Stevenage and Kings Cross. The vinyl flooring was filthy with in-ground dirt which will require more than a wipe over with a mop to solve.

It seems that the flooring installed is far too light in colour compared to that seen on other trains.

I still think that carpet should have been used, the vinyl flooring cheapens the look, ok for an inner suburban train but not good on longer distance services to Peterborough, Cambridge or Kings Lynn.

Idiot people make these decisions.....

who would pick a light colour for the flooring on a train.?!

SOuthern 455s were the same, but they are being refreshed with a dark blue coloured vinyl..... although this still shows dirt quite badly.

This is why BR always used a dark dull grey vinyl on it trains...

 

[jopsuk]

Light coloured floors are harder to keep looking good, but they do improve the ambience. One of NSE's big leaps was to make the flooring in station concourses (starting with Waterloo) light coloured rather than dark grey tarmac.

 

[samuelmorris]

This doesn't seem a particularly commonly held opinion, but I actually quite liked what NSE did in terms of colour schemes throughout - rolling stock livery, station colour schemes etc. Yes it looks dated now looking back, but it was uniform and I thought relatively smart. Perhaps I'm just a nostalgia fanatic, but to be honest in most cases I prefer the colour schemes/logos companies used back in the 80s/90s to what they have today.

 

[chickenwings12]

Completely agree. That interior also strikes me as attempting to appear more like a cheap version of Network South East as well (just imagine all those blue and purple lines on the moquette)! Front looks pretty awful, livery looks drab and the interior seems cheap already. Welcome to DfT specification?

Mind you, it wont just be the Kings Lynn passengers who will get their chance to air their views on the 365s - Don't forget the First Class area will get the treatment too, the same First Class area as used at least twice a year by HRH Queen Elizabeth. Will one be pleased with this refurbishment or not amused?

Woah. Can't believe the amount of hate, have you seen what it's replacing?

The stupid First corporate dark blue and neon pink looked awful!

 

[jon0844]

There's nothing wrong with the 365s now, but they do look a little less cosy than they once did.

With the darker carpets and seating from before, they felt a little more upmarket than now where the bright floor reflects light, and everything looks really bland. Clearly it's just a perception thing as the seats are the same, but it feels 'colder' probably on account of so much light blue.

I bet people will perceive it to be colder as a result, especially now that it really IS colder!

First class also looks less special, and GTR has still failed to put proper stickers/signs up on lots of them. So it's pretty much just the antimacassars to warn you that you've ventured into first class - especially if the doors are locked open (as seems more common these days, as either the doors or the sensors are failing).

But, hey, they still get you from A to B most of the time.

 

[samuelmorris]

I don't mind the minimalist liveries and bright interiors when they're clean, it's just how much easier they show the dirt. Still, silver is at least better than white!

 

[387star]

How many are treated?

When will new toilets be installed AFAIK this is running behind schedule

 

[Bletchleyite]

I still think that carpet should have been used, the vinyl flooring cheapens the look, ok for an inner suburban train but not good on longer distance services to Peterborough, Cambridge or Kings Lynn.

Vinyl has a lot going for it on local services, as it's easy to clean and doesn't end up filthy like the carpet on 350/1s. However as you can print anything you like on vinyl, I don't understand why TOCs don't go for something better looking. Trent Barton and some other image-conscious bus companies seem to have done quite well with using wood-laminate-effect vinyl on some of their buses, and I think that would suit trains quite well too.

Example: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sPuMsU1Z4pg/Ux9SD5XDthI/AAAAAAAAB5I/323YiCd9SQ0/s1600/Lime+2+interior.jpg

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The stupid First corporate dark blue and neon pink looked awful!

Do you think? I don't have much time for First, but I do rather like Dynamic Lines/City Lines, both inside and out - it just feels classy. Indeed I think it's a real shame they didn't also adopt it for bus use - the new bus liveries and interiors just look washed out to me.

Neil

 

[physics34]

Vinyl has a lot going for it on local services, as it's easy to clean and doesn't end up filthy like the carpet on 350/1s. However as you can print anything you like on vinyl, I don't understand why TOCs don't go for something better looking. Trent Barton and some other image-conscious bus companies seem to have done quite well with using wood-laminate-effect vinyl on some of their buses, and I think that would suit trains quite well too.

Example: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sPuMsU1Z4pg/Ux9SD5XDthI/AAAAAAAAB5I/323YiCd9SQ0/s1600/Lime+2+interior.jpg

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Do you think? I don't have much time for First, but I do rather like Dynamic Lines/City Lines, both inside and out - it just feels classy. Indeed I think it's a real shame they didn't also adopt it for bus use - the new bus liveries and interiors just look washed out to me.

Neil

the dynamic lines livery looks great when new and shiny but when the vinyl loses its sparkle its quite dull.

 

[chickenwings12]

Do you think? I don't have much time for First, but I do rather like Dynamic Lines/City Lines, both inside and out - it just feels classy. Indeed I think it's a real shame they didn't also adopt it for bus use - the new bus liveries and interiors just look washed out to me.

Neil

I have a love hate relationship with First, but I do think dynamic lines looks great on the HST's and adelante's (not so much on the 166's as they seem too small in length to have it IMO) its just the neon pink on the grabrails and doors when youre inside that I really think makes their trains look cheap :/

Also really did not like the capital connect livery at all, it just never really looked sleek to me and I think the refurbed 365's look very modern, they were definitely showing their age

 

[Hadders]

I use the 365's every day on my way to work and in my opinion they are excellent trains.

I don't like the refresh though, more airline seats and it appears (although I can't be 100% certain) that there is less legroom in the airline seats of the refreshed units.

The vinyl flooring is a big fail for me. It cheapens the overall look of the train and I don't understand why the carpet couldn't simply have been replaced - carpet seems to have done the job since the trains were built in the 1990's and worked okay for WAGN and FCC. The vinyl is already filthy on some of the units with ingrained dirt.

 

[387star]

I use the 365's every day on my way to work and in my opinion they are excellent trains.

I don't like the refresh though, more airline seats and it appears (although I can't be 100% certain) that there is less legroom in the airline seats of the refreshed units.

The vinyl flooring is a big fail for me. It cheapens the overall look of the train and I don't understand why the carpet couldn't simply have been replaced - carpet seems to have done the job since the trains were built in the 1990's and worked okay for WAGN and FCC. The vinyl is already filthy on some of the units with ingrained dirt.

Presumably First had input into the design?

Southern trains favour carpet at least on longer distance trains... Throughout

Southeastern are refreshing 375s next year and I would expect the same

 

[jon0844]

They'll look expecially bad now as people carry on the grit put on platforms during the cold weather.

Also, when is any of the big work happening as I haven't seen any modified toilets and certainly no new CIS or CCTV?

 

[Hadders]

They'll look expecially bad now as people carry on the grit put on platforms during the cold weather.

Also, when is any of the big work happening as I haven't seen any modified toilets and certainly no new CIS or CCTV?

Too right. Puddles of water in the aisles to look forward to.

It's a sign of progress as we'll have the new trains to look forward to soon - fewer seats so more people can stand, I believe.

 

[jopsuk]

Fewer seats per carriage maybe. But many, many more carriages and an additional 2 trains per hour off peak on the Cambridge route. The Cambridge Express services to kings Cross will get 377/5s with a few 365s kept for extra peak time services, by my reckoning all off-peaks will be at least 8-car south of Cambridge (both services will be through to Kings Lynn). The Cambridge "semi fasts" will be twice an hour and 12 car. The Cambridge "slows" will be twice an hour and 8-car. Peterborough will be two 12-car services per hour.

 

[jon0844]

Too right. Puddles of water in the aisles to look forward to.

It's a sign of progress as we'll have the new trains to look forward to soon - fewer seats so more people can stand, I believe.

The 365 refresh does lead people nicely into the similar bright, airy and very basic 700 interior I suppose.

Certainly no chance of mistaking either of those for a nice comfortable, cosy, Intercity train.

Sure, the 365s were never meant to be like Intercity trains, but the interior was always a bit more for longer journeys and comfort. Although the seats are still the same, the rest of the interior doesn't lend itself that nicely for long trips.

But it's probably no different to sitting on a 395 or many other modern trains and doing a long journey. Ultimately, few people will notice or care and get used it - especially when reading Metro or playing on their smartphone.

The positive is that they do make the trains look almost brand new.

 

[Goldfish62]

The 365 refresh does lead people nicely into the similar bright, airy and very basic 700 interior I suppose.

Certainly no chance of mistaking either of those for a nice comfortable, cosy, Intercity train.

Sure, the 365s were never meant to be like Intercity trains, but the interior was always a bit more for longer journeys and comfort. Although the seats are still the same, the rest of the interior doesn't lend itself that nicely for long trips.

But it's probably no different to sitting on a 395 or many other modern trains and doing a long journey. Ultimately, few people will notice or care and get used it - especially when reading Metro or playing on their smartphone.

The positive is that they do make the trains look almost brand new.

395s are far superior. They have power sockets, armrests, tables and carpets. The 700s have none of these.

 

[Class377/5]

395s are far superior. They have power sockets, armrests, tables and carpets. The 700s have none of these.

Not strictly true actually.

 

[bramling]

I use the 365's every day on my way to work and in my opinion they are excellent trains.

I don't like the refresh though, more airline seats and it appears (although I can't be 100% certain) that there is less legroom in the airline seats of the refreshed units.

The vinyl flooring is a big fail for me. It cheapens the overall look of the train and I don't understand why the carpet couldn't simply have been replaced - carpet seems to have done the job since the trains were built in the 1990's and worked okay for WAGN and FCC. The vinyl is already filthy on some of the units with ingrained dirt.

I'm not sure the legroom has been reduced, but certainly two rows of priority seats have been created with increased legroom. I suspect these two factors combined have led to 2x tables being removed. The effect of the table removal is quite noticeable, as I've noticed the remaining tables are now almost always the first to fill, and I've already seen squabbles develop when people turn up at the last minute and are unable to get a table seat. Creating the priority seats with the additional legroom is misguided, as once the regulars realise this, guess which seats will become popular, and will then be less available to those who might need them! The previous interior layout basically worked very well, so should have been left alone - the airline seats had reasonable legroom anyway.

Must say I preferred the original BR interior, with restful shades of red and green, with slightly dimmer lighting than today. Each subsequent refresh has downgraded these trains slightly. I find the recent refreshed trains have started to look tatty very quickly, they look OK when freshly out of works, but the extensive use of light colours does not wear well.

 

[jon0844]

They've gone from a nice stately home interior to that of a hospital ward. But that's what all new trains are like, or going to be like, I guess.

 

[samuelmorris]

The last hospital ward I was in was a lot more softly coloured than modern short-distance rolling stock, that's for sure

 

[fgwrich]

I Still preferred the former FCC interior (or if first had won the TSGN franchise a similar interior to FGWs 166s?) but here is a video produced by FCC/Bombardier covering the 365 job. Not sure if it's been shared on here yet.

And if that link dies at some point, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6xplP75how

[youtube]w6xplP75how[/youtube]

 

[physics34]

395s are far superior. They have power sockets, armrests, tables and carpets. The 700s have none of these.

they will have power sockets. But the lack of armrests, tables etc is an issue and has been criticsed by GTR....(and myself )

Carpets I dont see the point of on suburban/semi-fast stock IMO.

 

[Class377/5]

they will have power sockets. But the lack of armrests, tables etc is an issue and has been criticsed by GTR....(and myself )

Carpets I dont see the point of on suburban/semi-fast stock IMO.

Have GTR actually critised the Class 700 as I've seen nothing other than a single comment in a magazine that wasn't even link to a person just 'GTR'.

 

[Goldfish62]

Not strictly true actually.

Standard class