30 Options for Castlefield but DfT rules out extra platforms for Piccadilly

[MarkyT]

How about continuing the proposed Skelmersdale line through the north of the town to regain the old line to Ormskirk for reversal to Southport via Burscough: Two bimodes an hour Manchester to Southport via Bolton - Wigan - Skem - Ormskirk - Burscough(s), with an hourly all stations service Wigan - Southport via Parbold. Preston service continues to go to Ormskirk where Merseyrail continues to terminate.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There have been serious proposals to reinstate the "Skem Jazzer" to Ormskirk, but I think demand is much lower and reinstatement would be much more expensive to give a slower journey to Liverpool than via Kirkby. There's also the minor matter of a housing estate on the trackbed in Westhead.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Southport's primary (the faster of the two) service was for many, many years via Bolton, though. It never bothered anyone.

That was only true off-peak when Atherton line services had more stops.

I'd be very happy with that though I think money would be a barrier, particularly as it would probably require demolition of the Wallgate bridge.

Assuming HS2 gets built the the WCML through Wigan will probably need a significant upgrade/rebuild. Under those circumstances all sorts of things might be possible including the complete elimination of Wallgate station by expanding North Western and having various flyovers and grade separated junctions.

 

[MarkyT]

There have been serious proposals to reinstate the "Skem Jazzer" to Ormskirk, but I think demand is much lower and reinstatement would be much more expensive to give a slower journey to Liverpool than via Kirkby. There's also the minor matter of a housing estate on the trackbed in Westhead.

I wouldn't advocate it as an alternative for Merseyrail to Skem. At Westhead, perhaps a small diversion through fields to the north of the old alignment?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Re Atherton Metrolink: That could also allow conversion of the Leigh guided bus corridor to light rail, via a short connecting link near Walkden.

Do you not think of the Leigh Guided Busway as something that can offer its existing transport mode using existing road vehicle use in the sections that connect it from Ellenbrook to Manchester and from its short terminal run into Leigh bus station without the future disruption caused to the road systems that will be caused by the implementation of laid trackwork and signalling for a tramway system?

 

[yorksrob]

Southport's primary (the faster of the two) service was for many, many years via Bolton, though. It never bothered anyone.

That doesn't address the reduction in resilience by having fewer routes in times of disruption, nor does it address the fact that residents of Atherton, Walkden etc would have their services to Southport etc substantially degraded.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't advocate it as an alternative for Merseyrail to Skem. At Westhead, perhaps a small diversion through fields to the north of the old alignment?
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I suppose the advantage of West Lancashire being (a) fairly flat and (b) full of farmers' fields does make such things a bit easier.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I suppose the advantage of West Lancashire being (a) fairly flat and (b) full of farmers' fields does make such things a bit easier.

Isn't discussion on Merseyrail and West Lancashire somewhat off-topic noting the name of this thread?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't discussion on Merseyrail and West Lancashire somewhat off-topic noting the name of this thread?

Yes, we do seem to have ended up with a generalised "North West rail proposals" thread don't we?

In some ways that highlights how the North's rail network is a complex web of interconnecting services serving lots of different journeys, as compared to the South East where they are to all intents and purposes a load of separate lines mainly for going to London.

 

[MarkyT]

Do you not think of the Leigh Guided Busway as something that can offer its existing transport mode using existing road vehicle use in the sections that connect it from Ellenbrook to Manchester and from its short terminal run into Leigh bus station without the future disruption caused to the road systems that will be caused by the implementation of laid trackwork and signalling for a tramway system?

Just to be clear I'm not against busways or buses in general, but if a new fast largely segregated Metrolink alignment became available from Walkden along the current Atherton rail alignment into the city centre, then conversion of the Leigh guideway could be an option, and that would increase the benefit of the common section from Walkden. The stops along the East Lancashire Road could remain in use for truncated services, but many of the existing and potential new station sites along the Atherton rail corridor would be better sited and easier and frankly safer to access than the dual carriageway equivalents.

Another option of course could be conversion of the Atherton rail corridor itself to a busway, rerouting the Leigh buses that way as well!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another option of course could be conversion of the Atherton rail corridor itself to a busway, rerouting the Leigh buses that way as well!

Please, not another misguided busway. Leigh should have been rail, either heavy or Metrolink.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just to be clear I'm not against busways or buses in general, but if a new fast largely segregated Metrolink alignment became available from Walkden along the current Atherton rail alignment into the city centre, then conversion of the Leigh guideway could be an option, and that would increase the benefit of the common section from Walkden. The stops along the East Lancashire Road could remain in use for truncated services, but many of the existing and potential new station sites along the Atherton rail corridor would be better sited and easier and frankly safer to access than the dual carriageway equivalents.

Another option of course could be conversion of the Atherton rail corridor itself to a busway, rerouting the Leigh buses that way as well!

Noting the original construction costs that were incurred during the construction of the guided busway section from Ellenbrook to Leigh, noting the type of concrete construction utilised, I would be interested to hear from any civil engineer on this thread as to what would be the likely conversion costs required to remove the existing concrete busway and to install the rail track and signalling required for a Manchester Metrolink line, plus of course, the existing ground level guided busway stops would require raising to the platform level of all other Manchester Metrolink stations for which the existing trams were designed for. I am quite interested in how the final section of the line into Leigh town centre would be addressed as the guided Busway buses just access that bus station at present to a normal bus stance.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Please, not another misguided busway. Leigh should have been rail, either heavy or Metrolink.

Noting that the current Atherton heavy-rail station is not very well placed in relation to Atherton town centre and the fact that the Leigh guided busway buses terminate in the centre of Leigh at the bus station using the existing roads after the end of the guided busway, I am interested in where in Leigh would you envisage a heavy-rail station to have to be built. I have visited Leigh this morning and seen the residual blue engineering brickwork of a former high-level that once was the route of the former railway line in a part of the town area, but there has been much redevelopment of the land area since that former railway was closed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It appears you could get it to where the busway meets the main road, which isn't too far outside town - certainly nowhere near as bad as the Midland has stereotypically placed its stations (or Chester).

Metrolink it, of course, and it could go where you want. A station could be part of a major town centre redevelopment - it really is a bit grim at present.

 

[MarkyT]

Noting the original construction costs that were incurred during the construction of the guided busway section from Ellenbrook to Leigh, noting the type of concrete construction utilised

Was it slip-form cast in situ, or made from precast beams like Cambridge?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It appears you could get it to where the busway meets the main road, which isn't too far outside town - certainly nowhere near as bad as the Midland has stereotypically placed its stations (or Chester).

Metrolink it, of course, and it could go where you want. A station could be part of a major town centre redevelopment - it really is a bit grim at present.

I think you need to view Leigh in all its town centre areas, for whilst some of the former streets/roads in the town centre such as Lord Street and King Street which, like many other towns have seen a change of retail usage and also shop closures, the town centre itself has a thriving shopping centre next to the bus station and large town centre retail parks incorporating well-known stores, which are well patronised.

The Manchester Metrolink tramway system has in the past been the recipient of certain funding input from international sources that may well cease to be available in the very near future and I do wonder how many extra new trams will be required to run on a line to Leigh. One must also be mindful of what priorities are seen by those charged with future expansion plans of the Manchester Metrolink tram system, once the current intu Trafford Centre line is completed.