30 new Desiros for SWT

[RobShipway]

Given that statement, I wonder if (and hope that) pan wells are included (for the inevitable 25kv takeover when CR2 arrives...

Any electric train delivered since 2004, has had to have a pan well so that if needed they can be transferred to AC routes and if the DC routes get changed to be AC, then the TOC has trains that can do the route after being supplied a pan.

 

[Feathers44]

Which begs the question (in my mind at least) as to why they changed the livery on the 'new' 458s from white to blue if they're expected to end up back where they started, at Reading.

(If loop services were once 455s, shouldn't they be run by red trains - like in the new Siemens images?)

 

[swt_passenger]

The original 458 livery was applied long before they came up with the idea of white for long distance, blue for outer suburban and red for inner suburban. Effectively, the 458s have been running around in the wrong livery for a while, and perhaps the change to blue would have happened anyway.

The possible reason they might not have gone 'straight from white to red' is that it is now clear that they are only temporary on the inner suburban routes (i.e. those they are yet to actually appear on, cos they're late)...

 

[Bigfoot]

Which begs the question (in my mind at least) as to why they changed the livery on the 'new' 458s from white to blue if they're expected to end up back where they started, at Reading.

(If loop services were once 455s, shouldn't they be run by red trains - like in the new Siemens images?)

Reading is a outer suburban route. Thus should have blue stock. The white 458s were always the wrong colour as white is long distance colour with red meaning metro/innersuburban routes..

 

[Feathers44]

The possible reason they might not have gone 'straight from white to red' is that it is now clear that they are only temporary on the inner suburban routes (i.e. those they are yet to actually appear on, cos they're late)...

I hand't realised their painting predated the livery scheme but this last bit did just occur to me.

Personally, I'd like to see a mix of new 7XXs and 455s on all the metro services but I confess that it's mainly because I'd like both types to run past my house on a regular basis. I guess I have 456s to look forward to one day...

 

[starrymarkb]

Looking at the comments on the Bournemouth Echo (which is reporting it for some reason) - the Commuters are not happy. Apparently the new trains will be late and horrible and won't clean station toilets (yes really)

 

[Class377/5]

Looking at the comments on the Bournemouth Echo (which is reporting it for some reason) - the Commuters are not happy. Apparently the new trains will be late and horrible and won't clean station toilets (yes really)

But they aren't going near Bournemouth? Some people just like to complain.

 

[Bantamzen]

Looking at the comments on the Bournemouth Echo (which is reporting it for some reason) - the Commuters are not happy. Apparently the new trains will be late and horrible and won't clean station toilets (yes really)

Right, that's decided then. Order the new stock for Northern & then the Bournemouth moaners get cascaded Pacers instead....

 

[SF-02]

Good news and they are needed there on SWT.

So the infrastructure was improved and thus more trains were ordered to make use of it. Makes sense, so isn't it about time SE got some new stock, and soon? Millions have been spent on infrastructure recently to take 12 cars and yet no new trains for years. At best a handful of 12 car trains from January but as SE are still running 4 (rare) and 6 cars (quite widely) at peak times who knows. Southeastern really do seem to be forgotton right now, with new stock orders all over for many other TOCs serving London commuters on overcrowded routes.

 

[jopsuk]

Southeastern will get quite a bit of stock in the great Thameslink shuffle I thought?

 

[ert47]

Looking at the comments on the Bournemouth Echo (which is reporting it for some reason) - the Commuters are not happy. Apparently the new trains will be late and horrible and won't clean station toilets (yes really)

Trains cleaning toilets? That I want to see.

 

[MCR247]

Southeastern will get quite a bit of stock in the great Thameslink shuffle I thought?

Yes it will get some 377/1s

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Looking at the comments on the Bournemouth Echo (which is reporting it for some reason) - the Commuters are not happy. Apparently the new trains will be late and horrible and won't clean station toilets (yes really)

Quote from a comment on the Echo site

as well as excessively loud, ear piercing bleepers that go off when the doors can be opened

I wonder if they realise that all trains will eventually have to have them.

The gangways if fitted could be a variant of the gangways used on the 380s

 

[asylumxl]

Hmm. Is there a general election coming up?

 

[ScotGG]

Southeastern will get quite a bit of stock in the great Thameslink shuffle I thought?

They do but only in 2018 after all the upheaval with London Bridge rebuilding and service alterations/cuts. Many other London commuter area TOC's are receiving stock well before 2018. There's this Desiro order for SW, plus the recent cascaded from Southern. Southern and FCC will be receiving a hell of a lot in the near future in addition to recent additions. The 387's will go to FGW by 2016. London Midland are getting more aren't they? London Overground is going up to 5 car very soon, and will be getting new stock for GA routes in west London when it takes over.

Much has just been spent on SE metro to take 12 car trains with a lack of trains to run them, overcrowding is getting worse and many services need to be lengthened, so 2018 seems a tad far away.

 

[swt_passenger]

Hmm. Is there a general election coming up?

With rolling stock orders taking four years or more to go from ITT to full delivery, ( e.g. this one issued Sept 2013 with deliveries until 'early 2018'), there's nearly always a general election coming up...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Any electric train delivered since 2004, has had to have a pan well so that if needed they can be transferred to AC routes and if the DC routes get changed to be AC, then the TOC has trains that can do the route after being supplied a pan.

Indeed, and just to be on the safe side, the ITT did specifically require them to be delivered as dual voltage units if the new build option was chosen.

(The ITT also allowed for the alternative of cascaded DC units.)

 

[Bigfoot]

Extra 10 coach trains means that Waterloo will need to be remodeled and p1-4 extended by 2018. A few interesting years of engineering works to take place then! I know this is already out to tender. Wonder when we will see any activity?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Does that mean 450s on some suburban services? Perhaps the Guildford via Cobham or Woking slows?

Pretty please - 450s on all services via Epsom.

 

[455driver]

450s on suburban routes are a right PITA because the doors take too long to open and closed, I would say you lose at least 20 seconds per station simply waiting for them, it doesnt sound much but it soon adds up when you are stopping 20 times a trip with only 3 minutes between stations.

Up to 45mph the 450 is no faster accelerating than a 455 so you cant make the lost time back either.

 

[Domh245]

Case about the 450s subbing into 455 routes. There was a 2x450 I saw at Wimbledon earlier - the 1940 to Dorking which was already 2 minutes down at Wimbledon with an on time departure from Waterloo. It ultimately was 7 minutes late when it arrived at Dorking

 

[swt_passenger]

Pretty please - 450s on all services via Epsom.

I wouldn't bank on it. Your route is supposed to be strengthened to ten car using 455s and 456s.

 

[fgwrich]

So a quick question related to the 458s - Now that we know they are going back to the routes where they started from, Will they still all retain their 75MPH max gearing or will that be changed again back to what was once before?

I am quite pleased about these though, already I can foresee the SWT Specification being better to the DfT Specced cousins running on Thameslink.

 

[455driver]

I think the max speed reduction consisted of a sticker in each cab saying 'max speed 75mph' and very little else, as far as I know they still have the same 100mph gearing they had when they were built.

 

[Driver@swt]

No, the 458/5s have been down graded to 75 due to re gearing (from memory) to give them more pull away power for the extra weight. 458/0s are max 90.

 

[455driver]

458/0s are only set at 48% power anyway so upping them to 60% would have done the same thing much cheaper especially if it was thought they would need to be modified to work at 90mph again in a few years.

The max speed of a 458/0 might be 90 but they are geared for 100!

 

[Class377/5]

They do but only in 2018 after all the upheaval with London Bridge rebuilding and service alterations/cuts. Many other London commuter area TOC's are receiving stock well before 2018. There's this Desiro order for SW, plus the recent cascaded from Southern. Southern and FCC will be receiving a hell of a lot in the near future in addition to recent additions. The 387's will go to FGW by 2016. London Midland are getting more aren't they? London Overground is going up to 5 car very soon, and will be getting new stock for GA routes in west London when it takes over.

Much has just been spent on SE metro to take 12 car trains with a lack of trains to run them, overcrowding is getting worse and many services need to be lengthened, so 2018 seems a tad far away.

Forgetting that SE received a capacity of around 20 units in 2009 when the 319s and 377/5s started working SE services.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Is that just going by the 'artists impression' in the press release, or some other info? I'd be very surprised if they don't go for a gangwayed version, primarily because there are still stations with SDO on the relevant routes to be operated.

That would seem sensible.

No, the 458/5s have been down graded to 75 due to re gearing (from memory) to give them more pull away power for the extra weight. 458/0s are max 90.

Lower geared.I have been told.Im sure they pull away better,less jolty and for a suburban based unit a lower gear would seem sensible for pulling away every two minutes.

 

[jopsuk]

Pretty please - 450s on all services via Epsom.

Epsom (and other SWML side inner suburbans) is something I do wonder about. In theory, the idea is for the 455s and 456s to work this until Crossrail 2 stock is introduced. I'm not convinced the old stock will last quite that long!

 

[Driver@swt]

458/0s are only set at 48% power anyway so upping them to 60% would have done the same thing much cheaper especially if it was thought they would need to be modified to work at 90mph again in a few years.

The max speed of a 458/0 might be 90 but they are geared for 100!

Yes but they have been re engineered as part of the 5 car programme, they now have a max of 75.

 

[JonathanH]

Yes but they have been re engineered as part of the 5 car programme, they now have a max of 75.

There isn't anywhere they could go faster than 75 (70 I think) they could go between Waterloo and Reading anyway so changing the gearing would be a waste of time.