.

[WesternLancer]

Yes, it was a magic, special coloured Oyster card which inexplicably required no money at all to top up (!!) and provided unlimited free travel "for some time". What a terrific find. Getting caught the first time you use it? Okay, maybe unlucky. But after "some time", and repeated use where it would become obvious this card was magically free to use? Not a believable defence whatsoever. Even stealing someone's regular Oyster card and using the credit on it until it runs out is an offence.

We can't help people if they insist on using defences which don't pass the smell test. Anyone reading the letter the OP suggests is just going to roll their eyes and pass it into the prosecutions file.

TfL mostly plump for bylaw offences for ease of process and almost never settle out of court without expensive legal assistance. I really beg the OP not to deny the obvious and cause the prosecutors to dwell on the facts - that he stole the pass, used it, had good cause to know he shouldn't be using it, and evaded fares, - and tempt them into convicting him of a recordable offence as opposed to a non-recordable one. I would not even be mentioning the pass at all. Simply state "I was caught without a valid ticket for which I apologise" or along those lines.

All perfectly good and pertinent points (and the OP should take care to consider your last para, and think about the good suggestion you make in it), but in the great scheme of things the OP has to decide how honest they wish to be and if they believe TfL will believe their story or not.

But on another level it does not matter. The pertinent point is summed up in post #2

I think given the amount of time it would take to get to court, if you do not plan to live/stay for a long time, you could ignore it and head home without worry. I can't see them sending a helicopter to Mexico to arrest you and bring you back!

The OP will very likely have left the UK before anything much happens - so it seems to me that any effort to prosecute by TfL will be a waste of their efforts as they will not see any money from it, nor will the court. And I can't imagine that TfL have any interest one way or the other if the OP is refused a visa for future travel/study/employment in the UK.

So long as TfL have satisfied themselves that the OP is not a UK citizen and is not here long term, surely the best outcome for them is to get some money (any money) in respect of the misused ticket? The best chance of that is to agree a settlement isn't it?

Most people on this forum do not have the option to leave the country and ignore the court ruling, but in the case outlined there is a reasonable prospect of being able to do that, or so it seems to me.

However, if the OP has the serious intention of seeking to apply for long term visa to stay in the UK - and is worried about the consequences of this ticket misuse on such a visa application - they maybe should consider seeking the help of a solicitor to deal with this matter.

 

[juanfederer]

Hi everyone!

Thanks so much to all for your nice, kind and useful responses!

This is my last post before I send my letter to Tfl.

What are your final thoughts and suggestions on what should I do or write in the letter.

Really appreciate your help!

U.K. people you are very nice I have to say!!!

 

[transportphoto]

What are your final thoughts and suggestions on what should I do or write in the letter.

My personal thoughts in summary for you: do not lie. To use an analogy, you are in a very deep hole - it is not wise to keep digging.

 

[randyrippley]

I'd be interested to know if any other cards were "found" at the same time. My experience is most people keep cards together in wallets. If one gets lost or stolen, they all do.

 

[westcoaster]

Something I have not seen mentioned yet.

Is the nominees card a different colour to a standard oyster, and does it not clearly state it is a nominee card and restrictions apply.

I know if I found one intrigue would take over and I'd Google it.

 

[357]

Something I have not seen mentioned yet.

Is the nominees card a different colour to a standard oyster, and does it not clearly state it is a nominee card and restrictions apply.

I know if I found one intrigue would take over and I'd Google it.

Yes, it's green (for rail staff, bus staff are different I believe) - and has a photo card with name a picture on there - along with "staff nominee"

 

[mmh]

I am not sure for how long I’ll stay here still

That, as you'll well know, is the actual issue here.

 

[Dstock7080]

Yes, it's green (for rail staff, bus staff are different I believe) - and has a photo card with name a picture on there - along with "staff nominee"

Bus Operator Nominee passes are grey in colour with the dark blue edge, and clearly state that name on the front.
The Oyster card doesn’t carry a photo or name on it.

 

[357]

Taken from https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/requ...taff guide 01 May 09.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi everyone!

Thanks so much to all for your nice, kind and useful responses!

This is my last post before I send my letter to Tfl.

What are your final thoughts and suggestions on what should I do or write in the letter.

Really appreciate your help!

U.K. people you are very nice I have to say!!!

I presume you have seen my suggested edits to your posted version of the letter. I don't have more to add.

 

[matt_world2004]

One thing potentially going in the ops favour is they may settle out of court due to the difficulties enforcing justice against a foreign resident.

But there would be no payment plan and a high cost £1000+?

 

[AlterEgo]

One thing potentially going in the ops favour is they may settle out of court due to the difficulties enforcing justice against a foreign resident.

But there would be no payment plan and a high cost £1000+?

They won't get the money back anyway, so easier just to prosecute. This gives them an enforceable court order if the OP stays here, or returns, or tries to leave after conviction having defaulted on the fine and/or compensation order.

 

[30907]

Re the letter: I would suggest cutting most of this paragraph, as shown.

I am not from this Country, as shown in my ID. I’m from a small town in Morelos ( México) who’s just visiting the U.K as a tourist. I want1 to make this clear in order to state that my knowledge about how things work in London is reduced to what a tourist in the country could know.

The second sentence will cut no ice.
As others have said, a tourist with a modest amount of English could guess what a Bus Operator was even if they didn't understand the word nominee; one with even less would expect to pay for public transport.

 

[Haywain]

Re the letter: I would suggest cutting most of this paragraph, as shown.

The second sentence will cut no ice.
As others have said, a tourist with a modest amount of English could guess what a Bus Operator was even if they didn't understand the word nominee; one with even less would expect to pay for public transport.

I agree. Having found such a pass in the park, why would "a tourist" even think it might work to give free travel?

 

[Tetchytyke]

One thing potentially going in the ops favour is they may settle out of court due to the difficulties enforcing justice against a foreign resident.

If anything, the opposite is true. There's no point going for a money judgment which can't be enforced and won't be paid. Best to go for prosecution should the OP decide he's not a tourist after all and decides to stay.

 

[WesternLancer]

I assume TfL have a relatively tried and tested process for their approach to ticket offences committed by non UK residents as it must happen fairly regularly in a large city like London with a lot of international short and longer stay visitors. I would expect that to weigh up the prospects of getting the money with or without court action etc.

Question is - does anyone know what that process is?

 

[AlterEgo]

Re the letter: I would suggest cutting most of this paragraph, as shown.

The second sentence will cut no ice.
As others have said, a tourist with a modest amount of English could guess what a Bus Operator was even if they didn't understand the word nominee; one with even less would expect to pay for public transport.

i would advise cutting out all the talk of nominee passes etc etc altogether.

Just admit to not having a valid ticket, mention nothing about the pass you were caught with.

 

[juanfederer]

i would advise cutting out all the talk of nominee passes etc etc altogether.

Just admit to not having a valid ticket, mention nothing about the pass you were caught with.

I’ll send my letter tomorrow morning, wouldn’t you think that’d be considered as if I were trying to fool them around?

 

[Snow1964]

I agree. Having found such a pass in the park, why would "a tourist" even think it might work to give free travel?

There are some cities around the world that offer free travel, on some routes if not all.

The earlier debate about the colour of the ticket, was a bit misguided, if you reverse it and look at it as if a tourist in Mexico, would a UK citizen know the colours of the tickets in Mexico.

Regarding words printed on it, again how many Brits would understand any of following : Candidata, candidato, empleada, companero if one of these appeared on a rail pass

There remains the question of why a working ticket was avaliable to be found, and why the receiver is in trouble rather than the person who abandoned their ticket

 

[Titfield]

There remains the question of why a working ticket was avaliable to be found, and why the receiver is in trouble rather than the person who abandoned their ticket

a) items of value including debit and credit cards, oyster cards, cash are lost by their owners. This is a common occurrence as evidenced by the huge quantity of lost property handed in to the TfL lost property office, the police and others.
b) the "receiver" (interesting choice of word) is in trouble for unauthorised use not because they "found" it.
c) the "person who abandoned it" (again an interesting choice of word) may well be "in trouble" for its loss.

We do not know all the circumstances of this occurrence but we do know, because the OP has said as much, that the OP used it when not authorised or entitled to do so.

 

[Haywain]

would a UK citizen know the colours of the tickets in Mexico.

Would a UK citizen think that travel had suddenly become free in Mexico because they found something in a park? No.

 

[Tom B]

Regarding words printed on it, again how many Brits would understand any of following : Candidata, candidato, empleada, companero if one of these appeared on a rail pass

I can certainly say I wouldn't.

But Google would...

 

[TomCrame]

First time logging in here for many years, but I couldn't help make a few observations on this:
1. The letter includes a Police and Criminal Evidence Act caution. There's only one way this is heading and that's prosecution.
2. In response to Snow1964's comment in post #28, the investigation is almost certainly going to be in contact with the rightful holder of the pass, and their spouse/partner/household member who is employed may well be subject to disciplinary action if found to be knowingly involved.
3. The OP has given TfL an address that he no longer lives at (post #9) - this will potentially be viewed as an aggravating factor if it comes to light.

He would be wise to take legal advice.

 

[WesternLancer]

He would be wise to take legal advice.

Or maybe just leave the UK and forget about it....(post #2)

 

[6Gman]

Do we know whether this was a pass for a staff member or for a family member?

From the use of "nominee" I presume it's the latter - so spouse, partner, child etc.

And is it the case that such passes have a photo on them?

 

[matt_world2004]

Do we know whether this was a pass for a staff member or for a family member?

From the use of "nominee" I presume it's the latter - so spouse, partner, child etc.

And is it the case that such passes have a photo on them?

The photo is on a separate card that bares the oyster card number . No photo is on the oyster card itself

 

[357]

Do we know whether this was a pass for a staff member or for a family member?

From the use of "nominee" I presume it's the latter - so spouse, partner, child etc.

And is it the case that such passes have a photo on them?

They are separate - upthread I posted a image of the type of cards concerned

 

[AlterEgo]

There are some cities around the world that offer free travel, on some routes if not all.

You cannot be serious with your unhelpful post. Sure, London has free travel (!!) - how many people arriving here think London has free travel? How many people use the system many times and think it's free, with its numerous gates, ticket machines, and contactless credit card operation? What?

The earlier debate about the colour of the ticket, was a bit misguided, if you reverse it and look at it as if a tourist in Mexico, would a UK citizen know the colours of the tickets in Mexico.

No.

Regarding words printed on it, again how many Brits would understand any of following : Candidata, candidato, empleada, companero if one of these appeared on a rail pass

I reckon if I found one and then stole it and used it for magically free travel I would look up what those meant.

Do you reckon the OP, who has near-perfect English, has no idea what was written on the pass? No curiosity at all? Especially when it appeared to dispense unlimited free travel? Give over.

There remains the question of why a working ticket was avaliable to be found, and why the receiver is in trouble rather than the person who abandoned their ticket

It's because someone dropped their staff nominee pass by accident, isn't it? You reckon finding a staff nominee pass and stealing it and then using it for a while for free travel is some sort of excusable activity? Unserious, unhelpful post.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Apr 2022 ==

Would a UK citizen think that travel had suddenly become free in Mexico because they found something in a park? No.

Well, quite.

The levels people will stoop to in order to defend obviously dishonest behaviour (the theft by finding and repeated use of a pass no reasonable person could think they were entitled to, in order to evade fares) and subsequent deflect from any helpful advice posted is insane.

 

[TomCrame]

Or maybe just leave the UK and forget about it....(post #2)

Well, yes, that is an option - but might have unforseen consequences should he ever wish to return to the UK.

 

[AlterEgo]

Well, yes, that is an option - but might have unforseen consequences should he ever wish to return to the UK.

He will almost certainly be convicted and it will have consequences if he stays, too, because he needs to regularise his presence with a visa (which we cannot advise on).

Top tip: Don't commit crimes in foreign countries and be whiter than white all the time.