2 Car Units - How many actually operate regularly as a two car train?

[Poppysdad]

Would anyone have any indication as to how often a train service operates using a single 2 car unit , i.e not 2 x 2 cars coupled together

 

[ainsworth74]

You may want to narrow your enquiry as that's going to a fearsomely long list. Vast swathes of Northern, decent chunks of TfW and ScotRail, parts of EMR, etc etc would all meet your criteria.

 

[pdeaves]

You may want to narrow your enquiry as that's going to a fearsomely long list. Vast swathes of Northern, decent chunks of TfW and ScotRail, parts of EMR, etc etc would all meet your criteria.

Also many GWR branches.

Original poster: do you have a specific line in mind? Do you mean regular schedule 2-car or likelihood of a 2 turning up when it would ordinarily be a 4-car?

 

[100andthirty]

And sometimes on Chiltern

 

[Deepgreen]

Wimbledon to West Croydon and Victoria to London Bridge (South London line) are two that were fairly local to me that spring to mind. There will be a large number of others.

 

[100andthirty]

Wimbledon to West Croydon and Victoria to London Bridge (South London line) are two that were fairly local to me that spring to mind. There will be a large number of others.

To be fair, neither of these have run for a considerable time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Mar 2022 ==

I'll add Bedford-Bletchley and the Ryde Pierhead-Shanklin

 

[Poppysdad]

Many thanks for all of your comments, what I am interested in 2 car units which are regularly scheduled to operate as a 2 car train. Whilst there are a large number of two car units it has been indicated to me recently that the majority of these operate as a 4 car train comprising of 2 x 2 car units.

I know all of the 2 car classes by Franchise/operator but I am interested in an indication as to how many many of these are scheduled to operate as only a 2 car train. I am only after an indication or feeling eg 10%, 25% etc

I am probably not explaining myself very well and I know that it will vary between operators but if an operator has 75 x 2 car sets an indication as to how many eg 25% are only scheduled or routinely operate as a single 2 car set

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Previously Strood-Maidstone West-Paddock Wood and Sittingbourne-Sheerness which have seen 2, 3 and 4-car units. Also, Lymington branch

 

[MattRat]

It can be hard to tell what is an intentional 2 car train and what was meant to be a 2 x 2 car unit. I've seen Lime Street to Manchester Victoria operated more as a 2 car 150 than a 2 x 2 car unit, even though 2 x 2 is meant to be the default. And it's always rammed. What makes it even worse is 3 car 195s also operate the route, so passengers have to gamble whether the journey will be bearable or not. Get it sorted Northern!

 

[Geeves]

It can be hard to tell what is an intentional 2 car train and what was meant to be a 2 x 2 car unit. I've seen Lime Street to Manchester Victoria operated more as a 2 car 150 than a 2 x 2 car unit, even though 2 x 2 is meant to be the default. And it's always rammed. What makes it even worse is 3 car 195s also operate the route, so passengers have to gamble whether the journey will be bearable or not. Get it sorted Northern!

Are you not thinking of the Lime St to Oxford Road MattRat? The few services that run from Lime St to Victoria in the peaks are either 6 or 4 cars.

Preston to Colne and Preston to Ormskirk are generally two cars these days, better than the one of the past.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

SWR have recently got rid of their 2-car Class 456 units (originally built to replace 2-car slam door EPBs on South London line services) but most of these worked to strengthen Class 455 formations to 10-car

 

[LowLevel]

Nearly all East Midlands Railway Regional services with the exception of a handful for stock movements, summertime Nottingham - Skegness and Nottingham - Liverpool are booked for 2 coach 15x or 170.

 

[MattRat]

Are you not thinking of the Lime St to Oxford Road MattRat? The few services that run from Lime St to Victoria in the peaks are either 6 or 4 cars.

Oxford Road, sorry. I'm like Gordon when he went to London. Too many stations.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

And I've just remembered, Ashford-Brighton (via Hastings and Eastbourne) were worked by 2-car 171's for a number of years despite severe overcrowding. I think the service is cut back now to just Ashford-Hastings but not sure if worked by 2-car or 4-car 171s as haven't been down that way for ages

 

[mmh]

Many thanks for all of your comments, what I am interested in 2 car units which are regularly scheduled to operate as a 2 car train. Whilst there are a large number of two car units it has been indicated to me recently that the majority of these operate as a 4 car train comprising of 2 x 2 car units.

I know all of the 2 car classes by Franchise/operator but I am interested in an indication as to how many many of these are scheduled to operate as only a 2 car train. I am only after an indication or feeling eg 10%, 25% etc

I am probably not explaining myself very well and I know that it will vary between operators but if an operator has 75 x 2 car sets an indication as to how many eg 25% are only scheduled or routinely operate as a single 2 car set

The vast majority of TFW's services are single units and are scheduled to be. An easier question to answer might be which operators have 2 car units that they never use singly - e.g. I think SWR 456s only ever run attached to a 455, but they do also have 2 car 159s which do run singly. It feels incorrect that the majority of 2 car units are run in multiple - that might be true in certain areas but not across the country as a whole.

 

[wobman]

There's plenty of full and standing 2 car units running around on the tfw network, the passengers go into shock when they see 4 car units.

 

[Desiro123]

SWR operate 2 car 158s between Salisbury and Romsey

 

[Kite159]

And I've just remembered, Ashford-Brighton (via Hastings and Eastbourne) were worked by 2-car 171's for a number of years despite severe overcrowding. I think the service is cut back now to just Ashford-Hastings but not sure if worked by 2-car or 4-car 171s as haven't been down that way for ages

Cut back to Ashford to Eastbourne.

Meant to be 4 coach units, even if they don't fit at any station between Ore & Ashford

 

[Ken H]

majority of Leeds- Carlisle and Leeds-Morecambe are 2 car 158's

 

[ChrisC]

It’s also not just rural routes but also trains between major cities that are booked for 2 coach trains.
For example Leeds-Sheffield-Nottingham.

EMR are supposed to run 4 coach trains between Nottingham and Liverpool but 2 coach trains regularly turn up. 2 coach trains linking Nottingham-Sheffield-Manchester-Liverpool have regularly been running on Saturday mornings leaving passengers behind.

 

[bramling]

Cut back to Ashford to Eastbourne.

Meant to be 4 coach units, even if they don't fit at any station between Ore & Ashford

Is this now a permanent fixture? I was under the belief that 4 cars had appeared due to the coincidence between reduced Covid commuter demand on the Uckfield line and increased Covid leisure demand on the Ashford-Eastbourne line.

Presumably if there’s a return to the office accompanied by reduced U.K. holidays (both likely to happen this year) then Uckfield may well need its 4-cars back. Though on the credit side, presumably cutting back from Brighton to Eastbourne should have freed up at least one unit, perhaps two.

Certainly pre-Covid there was the odd 2-car on the Uckfield line, in particular the peak extra shuttles to/from Oxted.

 

[DelW]

SWR have recently got rid of their 2-car Class 456 units (originally built to replace 2-car slam door EPBs on South London line services) but most of these worked to strengthen Class 455 formations to 10-car

IIRC SWR's 456s were only allowed to operate in minimum 4-car formations, due to the risk of a 2-car set becoming gapped (all shoes out of contact with the third rail).

 

[brad465]

Previously Strood-Maidstone West-Paddock Wood and Sittingbourne-Sheerness which have seen 2, 3 and 4-car units. Also, Lymington branch

After the 466 derogration they no longer run 2 cars on those routes, although the Bromley North Branch had an extension for a year, but since Dec 2020 there are no 2 car operations on the Southeastern network. 3 car though is the norm on the branches used by 375/3s.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Way too many

Thread locked

 

[NSE]

I saw a single 158 at Clapham Junction running a Salisbury service. Looked so odd seeing just the two coaches

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Preston to Colne and Preston to Ormskirk are generally two cars these days, better than the one of the past.

When it briefly still ran post-153 withdrawal, Huddersfield to Castleford was similar- although historically it was often a 2-car Pacer. It was always single units of maximum 2 cars, other than when it ran as part of the "Grand Tour" from Wakefield to Selby.

Huddersfield to Sheffield is always single units, currently all 2-car. Apart from a daily late evening southbound run which includes a second unit locked out of use. In Pacer days it was a 3-car 144 more often than not, and will hopefully see 3-car 150s in the not too distant future. Those units will be formed of 1.5 2-car units, so are at least topic-adjacent!

 

[Watershed]

When it briefly still ran post-153 withdrawal, Huddersfield to Castleford was similar- although historically it was often a 2-car Pacer. It was always single units of maximum 2 cars, other than when it ran as part of the "Grand Tour" from Wakefield to Selby.

... that being down to the extremely short nature of Huddersfield platform 5. At 39m it is officially 1m shorter than a 150, but the driver's cab is allowed to 'hang' off the eastern end of the platform. Some very precise stopping is required on arrival!

With 150s being the shortest stock that Northern now operate, if the Huddersfield-Castleford services ever return they can be guaranteed to be formed of a single 150.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I saw a single 158 at Clapham Junction running a Salisbury service. Looked so odd seeing just the two coaches

Back in the day, Wales&West ran 2-car 158s from Waterloo to such varied destinations as Maesteg and Manchester Piccadilly. Was very odd seeing a little 2-car Regional Railways 158 at Clapham surrounded by Network South East behemoths of 8-cars minimum!

 

[Towers]

Back in the day, Wales&West ran 2-car 158s from Waterloo to such varied destinations as Maesteg and Manchester Piccadilly. Was very odd seeing a little 2-car Regional Railways 158 at Clapham surrounded by Network South East behemoths of 8-cars minimum!

Virgin ran solo 158s for a time on Portsmouth - Blackpool services!

 

[Kite159]

I saw a single 158 at Clapham Junction running a Salisbury service. Looked so odd seeing just the two coaches

Before Covid hit, the 18:47 Salisbury - Waterloo & 20:50 Waterloo - Salisbury services were booked a single 158. [Prior to the 20:50 existing the 158 would wait at Waterloo to attach with the 21:20 service towards Yeovil]