1st Generation units as crowd busters?

[RichmondCommu]

I had a trip from Risboro to Aylesbury on the 121 some time ago ,it was not a pleaseant experience compared to a usual unit.

Exactly, great for the rail enthusiast but horrible for everyone else. In an ideal world a Class 153 would be cascaded to operate this line.

 

[bronzeonion]

Exactly, great for the rail enthusiast but horrible for everyone else. In an ideal world a Class 153 would be cascaded to operate this line.

I think passengers would prefer a 121 over a naff 153 especially with the refurbishment provided by Chiltern.

 

[RichmondCommu]

I think passengers would prefer a 121 over a naff 153 especially with the refurbishment provided by Chiltern.

I'm sorry but there's only so much that a refurbishment can give you. Sound insulation and ride quality is so much better in a Class 153. The only complaints with Class 153's are that they are not long enough for the routes that they run on. This is not a problem with the Aylesbury shuttle. The modern railway is not a place for museum pieces.

 

[Penmorfa]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. One of the basic principles of our railway is that you only have one train in a section at a time. The Aylesbury - Princes Risborough branch is used by the 121, by freight and by through services between London - High Wycombe and Aylesbury. It is a single line but there are multiple (well, two) signal sections within that single line. There is no reason whatsoever why you couldnt have the bubble and a 66 pulling wagons from the waste factory on the branch line at the same time.

As I understand it, because of crash worthiness (or lack of) an old DMU can only be used on a section of track where there is no chance of it coming into contact with another train. I'm not familiar with that line so it could well be the case that another train could follow the DMU, provided the DMU could be locked in at Princes Risborough or could proceed empty to the sidings at the Aylesbury end.

 

[Clip]

As I understand it, because of crash worthiness (or lack of) an old DMU can only be used on a section of track where there is no chance of it coming into contact with another train. I'm not familiar with that line so it could well be the case that another train could follow the DMU, provided the DMU could be locked in at Princes Risborough or could proceed empty to the sidings at the Aylesbury end.

It uses the bay at Risborough anyway and plat 1 at Aylesbury anyway so it gets out the way quick enough at each end to facilitate another following it.

 

[bronzeonion]

I'm sorry but there's only so much that a refurbishment can give you. Sound insulation and ride quality is so much better in a Class 153. The only complaints with Class 153's are that they are not long enough for the routes that they run on. This is not a problem with the Aylesbury shuttle. The modern railway is not a place for museum pieces.

For starters the windows are too high, interiors built with cheap looking/feeling plastics, bodywork bowing in the middles, cab too small on one end and tbh the sound insulation is hardly something to admire

 

[RPM]

As I understand it, because of crash worthiness (or lack of) an old DMU can only be used on a section of track where there is no chance of it coming into contact with another train. I'm not familiar with that line so it could well be the case that another train could follow the DMU, provided the DMU could be locked in at Princes Risborough or could proceed empty to the sidings at the Aylesbury end.

The only rules regarding the 121s on the branch is that they may only use platform 1 at Aylesbury and the bay platform at Princes Risborough in normal passenger service. (They can use platforms 2 and 3 at Aylesbury when working to and from Quainton Road). Other than that there are no requirements for them to be locked in or segregated from other trains over and above the normal signalling procedures. As Cherry Picker said, there is no reason why a freight train could not follow a bubble car over the branch (it is splt into two sections by a signal at Little Kimble). Likewise a bubble car can enter platform 1 at Aylesbury even when it is already occupied by a unit under the normal permissive working/calling on arrangements.

As regards the passenger environment on the 121s, yes they are noticably old fashioned compared to more modern stock but as far as I am aware Chiltern receive very few complaints about this. In fact some of the regular (non-enthusiast) commuters appreciate their quirkiness and actually seem quite fond of the bubble cars.

Incidentally, this coming April will mark the 10th anniversary of 121020's reactivation into passenger service. How time flies!

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Why couldn't they just rebuild existing Wright StreetCars to Pacer style trains as a cheap replacement

 

[ChilternHenry]

Exactly, great for the rail enthusiast but horrible for everyone else. In an ideal world a Class 153 would be cascaded to operate this line.

As a regular user of that line to get to college, if a 153 turned up instead of a 121, i'd be tempted to raise it to the ground. The 121 doesn't have many reliability issues (afaik) and is actually VERY comfy. And that aside, considering a lot of the time a 2 car 165 operates the shuttle, aside from a 142, i could not think of a unit i'd least like to see turn up on that line.

 

[RobShipway]

As a regular user of that line to get to college, if a 153 turned up instead of a 121, i'd be tempted to raise it to the ground. The 121 doesn't have many reliability issues (afaik) and is actually VERY comfy. And that aside, considering a lot of the time a 2 car 165 operates the shuttle, aside from a 142, i could not think of a unit i'd least like to see turn up on that line.

So what if the 121 got replaced with a two car 172?

 

[RichmondCommu]

As a regular user of that line to get to college, if a 153 turned up instead of a 121, i'd be tempted to raise it to the ground. The 121 doesn't have many reliability issues (afaik) and is actually VERY comfy. And that aside, considering a lot of the time a 2 car 165 operates the shuttle, aside from a 142, i could not think of a unit i'd least like to see turn up on that line.

Ok good luck with destroying the Class 121 Henry So you're not bothered about its lack of crash worthyness or the need to messy about trying to open the doors. Or the lack of sound insulation. Or all the rattles. You are a clearly a TOC's dream customer.
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For starters the windows are too high, interiors built with cheap looking/feeling plastics, bodywork bowing in the middles, cab too small on one end and tbh the sound insulation is hardly something to admire

In all fairness I don't think customers are too bothered about the cab's being too small. Unless of course they are forced to stand in them. I accept that the Class 153's have capacity problems but then so do the Class 121's!

 

[Chris125]

As I understand it, because of crash worthiness (or lack of) an old DMU can only be used on a section of track where there is no chance of it coming into contact with another train. I'm not familiar with that line so it could well be the case that another train could follow the DMU, provided the DMU could be locked in at Princes Risborough or could proceed empty to the sidings at the Aylesbury end.

I'm happy to be corrected but apparently 121's are not of mk1 carriage construction so aren't bound by the restrictions to that type.

Chris

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Incidentally, this coming April will mark the 10th anniversary of 121020's reactivation into passenger service. How time flies!

You have no idea how old that comment just made me feel.

 

[Clip]

Ok good luck with destroying the Class 121 Henry So you're not bothered about its lack of crash worthyness or the need to messy about trying to open the doors. Or the lack of sound insulation. Or all the rattles. You are a clearly a TOC's dream customer.

!

Id say its easier to poen the doors on a 121 then it is to leane out the window and open them on a 125 getting yourself all dirty in the process

 

[ChilternHenry]

So what if the 121 got replaced with a two car 172?

now that I wouldn't mind, especially if it were of the London midland variety, I find they look rather snazzy! As for crash worthiness I'd say if a 121 and 153 were to crash, you wouldn't stand much chance in either, especially with a saggy roof 153, they look positively scary

 

[NSEFAN]

now that I wouldn't mind, especially if it were of the London midland variety, I find they look rather snazzy! As for crash worthiness I'd say if a 121 and 153 were to crash, you wouldn't stand much chance in either, especially with a saggy roof 153, they look positively scary

Speaking of sag, I believe that after 2019 (when the new DDA rules come into force), the 153s have the option of being scrapped, as many of them are suffering from a sag in the body shape which would be too expensive to fix. How true is this?

Also, how would the 121s be affected by this new rule? They currently always operate with a guard who can assist passengers with mobility issues, so would they be made exempt or replaced for convenience?

 

[D365]

Speaking of sag, I believe that after 2019 (when the new DDA rules come into force), the 153s have the option of being scrapped, as many of them are suffering from a sag in the body shape which would be too expensive to fix. How true is this?

The sag is true, has been discussed before. 153s, or indeed anything else, has the option of being scrapped anytime (depending on lease/terms). However, we are in short supply of rolling stock...

Also, how would the 121s be affected by this new rule?

Don't suppose grandfather rights would help if it doesn't for anything else?

 

[WarrenTManager]

One problem with the Lymington line is its one long bend and straight and it causes uneven wheel wear. No problem with the 15x as they rotate them to even the punishment out. Dedicate something to the line especially something a bit non-standard and its a bit of an issue sadly...

 

[RAGNARØKR]

I'm sorry but there's only so much that a refurbishment can give you. Sound insulation and ride quality is so much better in a Class 153. The only complaints with Class 153's are that they are not long enough for the routes that they run on. This is not a problem with the Aylesbury shuttle. The modern railway is not a place for museum pieces.

The tramways here operate perfectly well with a fleet including vehicles dating back to the 1960s, which many would regard as museum pieces. The last attempt to replace them, in 2005, foundered on the unreliability of the new Ansaldo trams which cannot operate reliably north of the Alps. Real museum trams are also used in regular service sometimes when there is a shortage of vehicles - eg they were running on the day of the Gay Pride carnival when the tramway system was divided into two halves. There is a hydro plant near here which still has its century old generators. If a piece of machinery will do the job required, its age is irrelevant. There are also lessons for contemporary designers. The most comfortable train seat I have ever sat in is in a North London Railway carriage built in the 1860s and running on the Isle of Wight steam railway.

 

[MK Tom]

Sorry but while we're talking about this, does anyone know what's happened to the Chiltern bubbles? My Aylesbury contact hasn't seen them in service since the timetable change.

I would also point out that the Risborough branch will not be segregated after 2017.

I've often wondered why 117s/101s and so on haven't been Chilternised for lines like the Marston Vale or Sudbury or so on. I've also wondered why Chiltern bought 121034 when they have two route-learning bubbles they could easily have used.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I think two of them are on road learning duty at the moment. EMT have one for the Nottingham station blockade, Chiltern are using the other to train drivers who have ECS movements to Crewe. Dont quote me though.

 

[RPM]

Sorry but while we're talking about this, does anyone know what's happened to the Chiltern bubbles? My Aylesbury contact hasn't seen them in service since the timetable change.

I would also point out that the Risborough branch will not be segregated after 2017.

I've often wondered why 117s/101s and so on haven't been Chilternised for lines like the Marston Vale or Sudbury or so on. I've also wondered why Chiltern bought 121034 when they have two route-learning bubbles they could easily have used.

Bubbles have been in normal service since the timetable change, barring the occasional failure. The evening diagram only consists of one return working now though.

Chiltern only have one route learning bubble car and they didn't return that to passenger use because they need it for....route learning.

And as I and Cherry Picker keep trying to point out, the Risborough branch is not segregated now. :roll:

 

[AlexS]

I don't believe class 101 units are permitted to be used anymore - as 'lightweight' sets their crashworthiness has certainly been called into question when the idea has been considered in the past.