They absolutely were not!
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Guess that the limited slack means a slow pace is inevitable if a decent level of service is to be maintained.
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1992 stock Refurbishment?
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Sad Sprinter
Established Member
Yes they were. Their frontage looked better and the interior worked. Now there’s that unsightly mishmash between blue and red which looks untidy.
It has to be said, the interior, even with the Barman moquette, does scream early 90s, there is no hiding their age!
Sad Sprinter
Established Member
Yeah that’s it, I love the early 90s aesthetic of the Central Line.
MichaelJWP15
Member
My 12 year-old son is a massive London Underground fan, knows all the history and the stock, and every time we get the Central Line he asks if we can wait until a refurbished 92 stock comes along. I always say that could take a very long time and this conversation confirms it! 
I think you'll be in the minority on that one!
No I like it as well, although I was born in the early-mid 90s, the interior looks a bit 80s to me in some ways, for example the obviously off-white plastic colours, but the exterior looks 90s futuristic.
Yes, 1992 stock is based on 1986 experimental stock (specifically the Green Prototype) which was designed in 1985
Rode my first refurbished train today, sat in carriage 93504. The seats definitely look much better than the original moquette, and the motors, at least to my ears, have a definite 2009 stock vibe. The interior destination dot matrix is much needed, but I noticed a significant amount of the top part of the curved windows has been used up.
Exterior-wise, the train looked identical to unrefurbished stock, with the singular exception of the different font used for the destination dot matrix.
Exterior-wise, the train looked identical to unrefurbished stock, with the singular exception of the different font used for the destination dot matrix.
That's intentional isn't it, to try to control the temperature when the sun comes out?
Cheesepuff
New Member
I don't think so, the connectors for the dot matrix are at the top of the display so it has to be mounted further down the window. If they were at the ends of the display it could have been mounted higher up.
bluegoblin7
Established Member
Presumably 93504 is a typo for 93054, as the former isn't a 'valid' 92TS number. 93054 is, of course, part of CLIP Train 3, the first to enter service.
Nym
Established Member
The displays have to be at a height as defined by the RVAR (Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations) and other regulations. In additon to there not really being a wiring route across the window. So it's highly unlikely that the displays could have otherwise been mounted higher.
The use of the space of the advertising panels was investigated by the CLIP (Central Line Improvement Programme) team during the inception and early stages of the projects, bit was rejected for several reasons. Height certainly did not help at the time compared with stealing some window space.
Right so it was said refurbishing the current stock on the central line would be cheaper than replacing the stock. Now according to Wikipedia 160m of the 500m budget has been spent. But don’t they have a good 80 odd trains to go so wouldn’t that exceed even the cost of the 2024TS order. Or have I missed something?
A fair amount of the upfront costs will have been spent on the research & preparation which is per-project, not per-vehicle.
notverydeep
Member
- Joined
- 9 Feb 2014
- Messages
- 1,176
Indeed, plus a new fleet would also have required a very large investment in depot upgrades, infrastructure modifications and training, in addition to the base cost of the constructing the trains.
Apparently CLIP Train 1 (91111+93446+93222+91263), the third train to return to service made its passenger debut on Friday 19th September between Hainault and Woodford. These vehicles had been out of service since 2018.
Ah, my mistake, thanks for pointing that out!
I also happened to take a refurbished unit the other day (I don't record numbers so I wouldn't know which one).
A much better experience overall. It also felt cooler than other units with much better airflow. Have they improved/upgraded the fans? There was a noticeable airflow coming out from behind the seating.
A much better experience overall. It also felt cooler than other units with much better airflow. Have they improved/upgraded the fans? There was a noticeable airflow coming out from behind the seating.
Perhaps just cleaned-out ducts...
Snow1964
Established Member
Ahead of next weeks TfL Board committee meeting the agenda papers have some interesting snippets
Per section 3.2 (b) over next 15-20 years Central line signalling will get changed to communication based
The full agenda papers link
Per section 3.2 (b) over next 15-20 years Central line signalling will get changed to communication based
The full agenda papers link
bramling
Veteran Member
Ahead of next weeks TfL Board committee meeting the agenda papers have some interesting snippets
Per section 3.2 (b) over next 15-20 years Central line signalling will get changed to communication based
The full agenda papers link
I’d say that’s quite aspirational, given there’s no funding for Piccadilly resignalling, let alone Central.
Nym
Established Member
Two ways one could take that.
1) Yes it is aspirational, because that's a TfL board meeting.
2) Westinghouse Brake and Signal Co (Invensys, Siemens) and Bombardier (Alstom) signalling equipment for the 1992TS and Central Line is in short supply and becoming challenging to procure.
But, as a sub-option to this, a lot of the Central Line was and probably has now been moved to Westrace interlocking, so if this is true then it is either;
A) A misunderstanding in TfL and "Communications Based" means migrating the existing means of protection from the "14 code" track circuits to DTG-R, which is compatible with the interlocking, points, signal positioning, lights on sticks etc. or;
B) Very aspirational that they want to get even deeper into bed with Thales on the S60 equipment for a line with literally no direct interfaces (currently) to any other line. (Yes, I know about Ruislip, but it's via an signalled section of the depot).
Right makes sense. Understood
Just spotted a post on Reddit about the 92 kit stock refurbishments, this comment about a previous refurb doesn't seem right to me, so any of the 92 stock have transverse seating? I can't recall ever seeing any.
"1992/9: 4 Cars, 15 Units, Converted from 1992/2 In 2006, Longitudnal and Transverse Seats, Standard Cab, Refurbished Interior, PIS Screens, DC Motors"
"1992/9: 4 Cars, 15 Units, Converted from 1992/2 In 2006, Longitudnal and Transverse Seats, Standard Cab, Refurbished Interior, PIS Screens, DC Motors"
bluegoblin7
Established Member
That will refer to the W&C 92TS which received an overhaul in 2006 as part of the like upgrade.
That said, most of it is a complete work of fiction.
That said, most of it is a complete work of fiction.
leytongabriel
Member
- Joined
- 27 Jan 2013
- Messages
- 639
First ride on a refurbished unit and dissapointing to see just the moquette renewed not the worn seat pads.
So the moquette is sagging loose over the worn compressed pads and passenger comfort seems to be the lowest priority again.
So the moquette is sagging loose over the worn compressed pads and passenger comfort seems to be the lowest priority again.
Honestly, I have no words. It's the most shambolic refurb I've seen across the board and surely ... ever?
Anyone remember the district line refurbishment and how amazing and transformative that was?
They didn’t replace the motors though. I wonder how expensive that is?