1992 stock Refurbishment?

[Mikey C]

The refurbishment isn't focused on the cosmetic side; it's mainly aimed at replacing life expired equipment...

There are also significant interior changes though. Adding the new information screens (drastically reducing the window size) and the wheelchair space.

 

[xtmw]

Yes because that's now become a legal requirement as apart of the RVAR process. I do see your point and it is disappointing to see the interior beginning to show its age already, however I felt it was worth pointing that out. I believe reducing the window size is also to do with RVAR as displays can only be a certain height (happy to be corrected)

 

[bluegoblin7]

(drastically reducing the window size)

It isn't as 'drastic' as is being claimed, mainly just the curved section - 1992TS still have some of the largest windows of all deep tube stock. Indeed, it's actually a bonus, as the large windows do contribute to the heat issues of the line.

 

[Busman]

It isn't as 'drastic' as is being claimed, mainly just the curved section - 1992TS still have some of the largest windows of all deep tube stock. Indeed, it's actually a bonus, as the large windows do contribute to the heat issues of the line.

 

[Russel]

Is there a separate light refurbishment going on alongside the main program?

I've noticed a few 92 stock sets running around with new colour contrasting flooring, black at the doors, white in the seated area.

 

[Busman]

I have to say, fantastic work to all those involved completing such a great job refurbing the Central line trains.

Remember that laughable hoo har ceremony at Woodford showing us an half arsed train that had been 'deep cleaned' externally? Joke.

Where are the weird YouTubers calling this out?

Will they?

Of course they won't because they'll lose their free passes to such spectacular failed launches and won't get overly priced LT MUSEUM freebies.

What's happened to the DLR? Jokers.

TfL are a joke.

 

[Russel]

I have to say, fantastic work to all those involved completing such a great job refurbing the Central line trains.

Remember that laughable hoo har ceremony at Woodford showing us an half arsed train that had been 'deep cleaned' externally? Joke.

Where are the weird YouTubers calling this out?

Will they?

Of course they won't because they'll lose their free passes to such spectacular failed launches and won't get overly priced LT MUSEUM freebies.

What's happened to the DLR? Jokers.

TfL are a joke.

That's pretty poor, isn't all that exposed metalwork just asking for corrosion issues?

 

[thomalex]

I have to say, fantastic work to all those involved completing such a great job refurbing the Central line trains.

Remember that laughable hoo har ceremony at Woodford showing us an half arsed train that had been 'deep cleaned' externally? Joke.

Where are the weird YouTubers calling this out?

Will they?

Of course they won't because they'll lose their free passes to such spectacular failed launches and won't get overly priced LT MUSEUM freebies.

What's happened to the DLR? Jokers.

TfL are a joke.

Hang on, this is a refurbished unit!!?

Someone needs sacking

 

[Silent]

Isn’t the refurb mainly about new motors and dda compliance

 

[announcements]

Yes because that's now become a legal requirement as apart of the RVAR process. I do see your point and it is disappointing to see the interior beginning to show its age already, however I felt it was worth pointing that out. I believe reducing the window size is also to do with RVAR as displays can only be a certain height (happy to be corrected)

Odd because PIS displays are usually much higher up on bigger-size trains e.g. s stock, mainline trains etc. I still wonder why they couldn't have had them at the car ends a la the 1986 stock.

 

[NCT]

Pretty sure interior panel cosmetics isn't part of the CLIP scope.

 

[Nym]

Odd because PIS displays are usually much higher up on bigger-size trains e.g. s stock, mainline trains etc. I still wonder why they couldn't have had them at the car ends a la the 1986 stock.

No space and not visible enough to be RVAR compliant

 

[Russel]

Pretty sure interior panel cosmetics isn't part of the CLIP scope.

Well, it should be!

 

[rebmcr]

Well, it should be!

Ah yes, make it take even longer, with even more units out of service, and more shed space required for the additional workline.

 

[Russel]

Ah yes, make it take even longer, with even more units out of service, and more shed space required for the additional workline.

Okay, leave the exposed metalwork, allow corrosion to set in and then withdraw the train for repairs further down the line?

 

[Nym]

Okay, leave the exposed metalwork, allow corrosion to set in and then withdraw the train for repairs further down the line?

The body ends have been taped on for literally 10 years now. Lets have some context to the conditions of these units.

 

[xtmw]

There was one train with the saloon door controls taped onto the cab !

 

[Russel]

The body ends have been taped on for literally 10 years now. Lets have some context to the conditions of these units.

I know, but we shouldn't be normalizing low standards.

 

[GFE]

The 92 stock has always been renowned for problems with Aluminum deteriorating at edges and much money spent to address (Windows, car ends ) and the floors now being repaired in CLIP !

 

[NCT]

I know, but we shouldn't be normalizing low standards.

Not. Part. Of. The. Scope.

 

[Russel]

Not. Part. Of. The. Scope.

No, it should be part of routine maintenance.

 

[NCT]

No, it should be part of routine maintenance.

To be honest, I'm sympathetic.

To be unhelpfully purest, routine maintenance is 'outside of the topic of this thread'.

 

[Russel]

To be honest, I'm sympathetic.

To be unhelpfully purest, routine maintenance is 'outside of the topic of this thread'.

The fact that the interiors are being just about fully stripped back and the project won't cover the cost of the odd internal paint touch up stinks of penny pinching.

 

[Mikey C]

The fact that the interiors are being just about fully stripped back and the project won't cover the cost of the odd internal paint touch up stinks of penny pinching.

Especially when the refurbishment programmes in the 90s and 00s seemed so comprehensive.

 

[xtmw]

Is there a separate light refurbishment going on alongside the main program?

I've noticed a few 92 stock sets running around with new colour contrasting flooring, black at the doors, white in the seated area.

This is separate to CLIP and flooring modifications on some units dates back to 2021.

Also other programmes taking place. One example is the joystick in the cab being replaced with a button, yellow teeth being placed on doors etc.

 

[bramling]

The fact that the interiors are being just about fully stripped back and the project won't cover the cost of the odd internal paint touch up stinks of penny pinching.

This is the reality of things. A programme of remedial work on the 92 stock should have been done years ago, the issues with this stock have been ongoing for many years, virtually since new. The Chancery Lane derailment was 25 years ago, and issues were known before that.

Whilst it may be badged as an “improvement programme”, in reality the work being done is to keep the fleet afloat, in the absence of any replacement. Whilst a few opportunity works have been done, be under no illusion that virtually all the work on these trains is things that are *essential*, rather than nice to haves. In essence they’re doing the minimum to keep the fleet going, and thereby avoiding either a drastic decimation of the timetable (planned or unplanned) or having to close the line altogether.

Remember also the accessibility work was meant to have been completed by 2020, so that has well and truly ended up in long grass as well as reliability work.

Having said all that, I agree with your point. It does still smack as a half job.

 

[Russel]

This is the reality of things. A programme of remedial work on the 92 stock should have been done years ago, the issues with this stock have been ongoing for many years, virtually since new. The Chancery Lane derailment was 25 years ago, and issues were known before that.

Whilst it may be badged as an “improvement programme”, in reality the work being done is to keep the fleet afloat, in the absence of any replacement. Whilst a few opportunity works have been done, be under no illusion that virtually all the work on these trains is things that are *essential*, rather than nice to haves. In essence they’re doing the minimum to keep the fleet going, and thereby avoiding either a drastic decimation of the timetable (planned or unplanned) or having to close the line altogether.

Remember also the aessibility work was meant to have been completed by 2020, so that has well and truly ended up in long grass as well as reliability work.

Having said all that, I agree with your point. It does still smack as a half job.

Given the Bakerloo stock is 50 years old and there isn't yet an order placed to replace them, doing half a job on the 92 stock does seem a bit of a short-term decision with the jobs being missed now being kicked into the long grass...

 

[Recessio]

Given the Bakerloo stock is 50 years old and there isn't yet an order placed to replace them, doing half a job on the 92 stock does seem a bit of a short-term decision with the jobs being missed now being kicked into the long grass...

But also what else are they to do? If they can't even get the Bakerloo stock replaced, then a 92 replacement isn't happening soon enough - they have to do something to the 92s before the reliability falls off a cliff.

 

[Russel]

But also what else are they to do? If they can't even get the Bakerloo stock replaced, then a 92 replacement isn't happening soon enough - they have to do something to the 92s before the reliability falls off a cliff.

This is it though, if the 92 stock replacement it that far off, then a full refurbishment now would be better, looking at the long term.

Leaving pealing paint etc is just creating more work for later.

 

[Recessio]

This is it though, if the 92 stock replacement it that far off, then a full refurbishment now would be better, looking at the long term.

Leaving pealing paint etc is just creating more work for later.

Peeling paint doesn't prevent a train from running in the here and now; knackered motors flashing over and failure to meet RVAR will.

The main problem was the failure to get this wrapped up years ago and the glacial pace of CLIP works - now, TfL don't have the time (let alone the budget) to do a full refurb.