1992 stock Refurbishment?

[Nym]

ahhh so it changed again then.
Way back when I was in the loop HOPL was broken off from CLIP so it looks like it’s happened again again…
CLIP is exceedingly delayed for it to be intergrated and then broken out from a Programme Lift twice!!!

 

[Wolfie]

The 'programme lift' for 2024 and 2025 refers to the intermediate (not sure of the exact term) overhaul that was to have been integrated with and delivered by the CLIP project. This is the next overhaul after HOPL (which had been finished before COVID and as you say was not delivered by the CLIP project). It was the pandemic delay to CLIP which meant that this specific programme lift had to be separated from the modification works, rather than the pre-pandemic delay...

I wasn't really intending to detail the exact internal boundaries between the different departments or projects and their staff - most of which have changed (or at least changed names) since the previous HOPL programme - though CLIP is still CLIP.

Sounds like Petronius Arbiter (reputedly) at his finest....

 

[notverydeep]

Sounds like Petronius Arbiter (reputedly) at his finest....

 

[xtmw]

Bit late but the refurbishment train won't be in service for the rest of the month.

 

[Recessio]

Are there any updates on this? Is refurbishment progressing on more trains, or has it been paused?

 

[Dstock7080]

Paused, second train not expected out from Acton until August at the earliest, first train still running on Central.

 

[Recessio]

Paused, second train not expected out from Acton until August at the earliest, first train still running on Central.

Thanks for the update

 

[kacper]

Are there any updates on this? Is refurbishment progressing on more trains, or has it been paused?

Currently refurbed unit Will be out again on the last Monday of July

 

[Russel]

What is the reason behind it being paused?

 

[LUYMun]

I’m quite late in posting this, but a FOI request to TfL declassifies the timetable notice on the current CLIP train diagram, which has been running on weekdays since 28 May and will run until 9 August, taking on two round trips between Ruislip Gardens and Hainault via Woodford. I gathered this info from the CLondoner92 website, linked here: https://clondoner92.blogspot.com/2024/06/tfl-publishes-timetable-notice-for.html?m=1

Screenshot of the timetable notice:

 

[xtmw]

Currently refurbed unit Will be out again on the last Monday of July

Actually it's hoped to be running on the penultimate week of July, however it's not confirmed as any run of the CLIP train is subject to change

 

[Geogregor]

What is the reason behind it being paused?

Total ineptitude of people running the program?

 

[Goldfish62]

Total ineptitude of people running the program?

It's almost as if it's being run by SWR.

 

[notverydeep]

What is the reason behind it being paused?

At least in part due to the Door Overhaul / Programmed lifts work being given priority and using some of the same resources.

 

[357]

Total ineptitude of people running the program?

Or of those giving the specification and decisions to those running the program?

 

[Geogregor]

Or of those giving the specification and decisions to those running the program?

For the general travelling public such differentiation is actually irrelevant. Let's call all of them "people running the show"

 

[bakerstreet]

Probably going to become the usual now until full refurb but the worst central line car I’ve been in for quite some time.
Graffiti over driver’s door and wall partition.
Scratched windows
Various other vandalism.
Very reminiscent of my memories of the 1980s.
Not blaming TfL for this – why spend money when the trains are about to be refurbished.
But there are some frustrating people around who find this a good use of their time.
It’s also possible that the spray paint or markers used are stolen too.

 

[Chriso]

I use it daily and the trains are been run in to the ground. Most are held together with tape

 

[setdown]

Not blaming TfL for this – why spend money when the trains are about to be refurbished

because Every Journey Matters?

 

[bluegoblin7]

Probably going to become the usual now until full refurb but the worst central line car I’ve been in for quite some time.
Graffiti over driver’s door and wall partition.
Scratched windows
Various other vandalism.
Very reminiscent of my memories of the 1980s.
Not blaming TfL for this – why spend money when the trains are about to be refurbished.
But there are some frustrating people around who find this a good use of their time.
It’s also possible that the spray paint or markers used are stolen too.

Unfortunately by sharing the image here you’re giving the vandals exactly what they want: publicity. Your words said just as much as the picture did.

I agree TfL/LU are largely blameless, but for different reasons: the cutting of the operational grant has had significant impacts and proactive graffiti removal is one of them. It might be a cliche at this stage, but there is plenty of merit in “LU is the only urban railway in Europe to not receive state funding”, even if it’s not technically true. The fact that LU (despite the fact they are actually making a profit and subsidising the rest of TfL) are still having to find ways to make cuts probably says everything it needs to.

 

[JamesT]

I agree TfL/LU are largely blameless, but for different reasons: the cutting of the operational grant has had significant impacts and proactive graffiti removal is one of them. It might be a cliche at this stage, but there is plenty of merit in “LU is the only urban railway in Europe to not receive state funding”, even if it’s not technically true. The fact that LU (despite the fact they are actually making a profit and subsidising the rest of TfL) are still having to find ways to make cuts probably says everything it needs to.

The grant from central government was replaced by business rates retention going to TfL. If they’re cutting things despite receiving more money, what are they actually spending it on?

 

[Nym]

The grant from central government was replaced by business rates retention going to TfL. If they’re cutting things despite receiving more money, what are they actually spending it on?

Rebranding a load of overground stations…?
Project Managers?

 

[Recessio]

Rebranding a load of overground stations…?
Project Managers?

The overground rebranding cost is £6 million. https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-ar...e-log/foi-overground-line-rebranding-mar-2024

This represents less than 1% of the £700 million value of the cut to TfL's grant. https://www.london.gov.uk/tfl/tfl-funding-settlement-another-short-term-sticking-plaster

Or, just over 1% of the £500 million cost of the Central Line Improvement Programme.

Therefore, I don't think refreshing the station signage on the overground stations (some of which has probably been in situ for the entire 17 years of Overground) is a direct cause of situations such as delays to the CLIP, or a cutback on non-essential maintenance like graffiti repair.

The fact is the massive cuts to TfL's budgets, and the more restrictive access to investment funding from the Treasury (for e.g. New fleets and heavy refurbishments such as the CLIP) are the major causes.

Also, I'm sure that if TfL did repair graffiti on a unit that was about to be stripped out and refurbed anyway, someone would come along and decry the waste of money

 

[JamesT]

The overground rebranding cost is £6 million. https://www.london.gov.uk/who-we-ar...e-log/foi-overground-line-rebranding-mar-2024

This represents less than 1% of the £700 million value of the cut to TfL's grant. https://www.london.gov.uk/tfl/tfl-funding-settlement-another-short-term-sticking-plaster

Or, just over 1% of the £500 million cost of the Central Line Improvement Programme.

Therefore, I don't think refreshing the station signage on the overground stations (some of which has probably been in situ for the entire 17 years of Overground) is a direct cause of situations such as delays to the CLIP, or a cutback on non-essential maintenance like graffiti repair.

The fact is the massive cuts to TfL's budgets, and the more restrictive access to investment funding from the Treasury (for e.g. New fleets and heavy refurbishments such as the CLIP) are the major causes.

Also, I'm sure that if TfL did repair graffiti on a unit that was about to be stripped out and refurbed anyway, someone would come along and decry the waste of money

Yes, they no longer have the £700m grant, but instead they’re getting even more from the rates retention https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...t-funding-to-upgrade-londons-transport-system

TfL now benefits from around £2 billion every year in retained business rates following a measure in the 2021 Spending Review

 

[Chriso]

As a daily commuter on the Central line I have found the entire refurbishment a joke and am still yet to see the first one. Whoever is in charge needs a major career change

 

[Crithylum]

Saw a 92 stock poking out of Ealing Common depot today. From a distance it looked much better externally than the in service trains at Ealing Broadway. Also the ‘shark teeth’ (as I like to call it) stickers were on the doors. Unsure about what actual work has been done on this train.

 

[bluegoblin7]

This is one of the CLIP trains (I forget the nominal numbering) and has been out and about on the South Ealing test track recently.

 

[danielnez1]

I use it daily and the trains are been run in to the ground. Most are held together with tape

From my experience since the 00s, they have always been in a state of disrepute in one way or another. My guess is that they were produced during a transitional period of manufacturing for BREL/ABB (moving to final assembly), a new bodyshell design etc. IMHO in many ways the whole fleet acted as a prototype for future fleets (and perhaps Metro-Cammell would have been a better builder given their established experience with final assembly practices). That is all moot now I guess.

 

[xtmw]

This is one of the CLIP trains (I forget the nominal numbering) and has been out and about on the South Ealing test track recently.

001,054,076&201 if I'm not mistaken

 

[branny_rail465]

From my experience since the 00s, they have always been in a state of disrepute in one way or another. My guess is that they were produced during a transitional period of manufacturing for BREL/ABB (moving to final assembly), a new bodyshell design etc. IMHO in many ways the whole fleet acted as a prototype for future fleets (and perhaps Metro-Cammell would have been a better builder given their established experience with final assembly practices). That is all moot now I guess.

I Cant remember why, but I think the bad state of the Juniper trains introduction, was a final nail in the coffin for Metro Cammel, or am i wrong?