-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
1955 WCML electrification: what got dropped?
- Thread starter Revaulx
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Dr Hoo
Established Member
Blisworth-Northampton
Rugby-Leamington-Kenilworth-Berkeswell/Coventry-Nuneaton
Bescot-Dudley
Ipswich-Felixstowe
Ashford-Ore
The best map is the colour one in the System of Electric Traction report of June 1956 (the revised version of September 1960 had dropped Ashford-Ore).
Rugby-Leamington-Kenilworth-Berkeswell/Coventry-Nuneaton
Bescot-Dudley
Ipswich-Felixstowe
Ashford-Ore
The best map is the colour one in the System of Electric Traction report of June 1956 (the revised version of September 1960 had dropped Ashford-Ore).
Revaulx
Member
Thanks. Will try to locate it.
Sir Felix Pole
Established Member
The original 1955 Modernisation Plan for electrification was:-
KX-Doncaster-Leeds and 'possibly' York.
Euston - Birmingham - Crewe - Liverpool - Manchester,
Shenfield - Ipswich including Clacton, Harwich and Felixstowe.
Southern Region all 'main routes' east of Reading to Portsmouth.
London Tilbury & Southend.
L'pool St - Enfield - Chingford.
L'pool St - Hertford - Bishop's Stortford
KX / Moorgate - Hitchin - Letchworth (inc. Hertford Loop).
Glasgow suburban lines.
Source: 'Facts and Figures BR 1955'
So all achieved (eventually!) except Felixstowe.
KX-Doncaster-Leeds and 'possibly' York.
Euston - Birmingham - Crewe - Liverpool - Manchester,
Shenfield - Ipswich including Clacton, Harwich and Felixstowe.
Southern Region all 'main routes' east of Reading to Portsmouth.
London Tilbury & Southend.
L'pool St - Enfield - Chingford.
L'pool St - Hertford - Bishop's Stortford
KX / Moorgate - Hitchin - Letchworth (inc. Hertford Loop).
Glasgow suburban lines.
Source: 'Facts and Figures BR 1955'
So all achieved (eventually!) except Felixstowe.
Sad Sprinter
Established Member
Yes the Leeds services would have been operated by class 309s right?
If so, I wonder why they didn’t opt for 309s to be used on the West Coast too.
Dr Hoo
Established Member
Could you reference an official statement to the effect that Class 309s ( or a conceptual equivalent) were to be used to Leeds?
I thought that that claim was just uninformed enthusiast wibble.
Merle Haggard
Established Member
Might be worth mentioning that work started on Northampton - Blisworth electrification..
I recollect, but not certain, that a bridge was raised (under the Gayton - Milton road).
Definitely the uprights for O.L.E. and also colour light signals showing an aspect..
Some of it was already F.B. track but I think there was some relaying - later used by the D.C.E. Watford for track machine training which might support that memory.
It seemed more like a cut-back as the work progressed South and the budget was being exhausted. Northampton no1 to no 4 manual 'boxes retained (5 was closed). for the same reason, and the budget could only run to an 'Atcost' prefab cow shed for the new station
Alignment now used by the replacement A43, so that everyone can quickly get to Silverstone for the annual G.P.
I recollect, but not certain, that a bridge was raised (under the Gayton - Milton road).
Definitely the uprights for O.L.E. and also colour light signals showing an aspect..
Some of it was already F.B. track but I think there was some relaying - later used by the D.C.E. Watford for track machine training which might support that memory.
It seemed more like a cut-back as the work progressed South and the budget was being exhausted. Northampton no1 to no 4 manual 'boxes retained (5 was closed). for the same reason, and the budget could only run to an 'Atcost' prefab cow shed for the new station
Alignment now used by the replacement A43, so that everyone can quickly get to Silverstone for the annual G.P.
Sad Sprinter
Established Member
Nope, I can’t. I was hoping someone else could.
The only thing I have found is on the 309 preservation society website which states they were to be used on outer suburban services.
Dr Hoo
Established Member
Doesn’t sound like Leeds then.
Back in the 1950s nobody could have imagined anything beyond the Hitchin/Letchworth sort of area. Peterborough was still a sleepy fenland market town (city) in those days.
But something would have been needed for the intermediates from Hitchin to Peterborough (or at least Huntingdon) - 309s (or similar) out that far north does not require too much of a stretch of the imagination. It’s amazing that they managed to squeeze 70mph dmus in for as long as they did - though I suppose speeding up freight did even more for track capacity.
The Eastern Region wanted electrification for the long distance trains to/from Leeds and York, not for a stopping service to Peterborough.
In The Deltics a symposium Gerard Fiennes says that the Deltics "were to be a stopgap for ten years only", that is pending electrification.
Even though the ECML didn't get electrification, it did a lot of work removing bottlenecks and speed restrictions in order to get more out of the Deltics and then the HSTs.
At the time of the Modernisation Plan the ECML local service north of Hitchin was very sparse, though there was some commuter traffic at Baldock and Royston.
After the Arlesey and Sandy bottlenecks were dealt with there were 4 tracks between Hitchin and Huntingdon so the stopping DMUs only interfered with the long distance trains when shunting at both ends.
Dr Hoo
Established Member
To describe the local timetable north of Hitchin at the time as a 'service' barely dignifies the term.
Even in 1961 if you wanted to travel from London or Hitchin to St Neots, for example, a train left King's Cross at 0550, the next opportunity was at 1025 and after that the 1345. There were no local 'shuttles' to fill in.
The state-of-the-art train of choice for this type of route on the WCML was, of course, the AM4 (Class 304) that was happy to lumber, lurch and bounce along at an absolute maximum of 75mph. It was content to bumble away in loops from time to time, with its Westinghouse compressor bursting into life periodically to keep a handful of sleepy passengers awake at locations like Lichfield Trent Valley or in the middle of nowhere like Brinklow.
Utterly different times (and nothing like shorter distance traffic on the Great Eastern).
Last edited:
Whatever they wanted it for, it would have included covering local services.
And they would have been a common fleet with the trains to Hitchin and Letchworth. There was no traffic to speak of on the locals towards Peterborough to justify a separate fleet.
Bear in mind that Sandy, St Neots and Huntingdon were all London overspill towns that only expanded significantly from the mid 1960s onwards. At the time of the Modernisation plan they were small market towns.
Can you elaborate on what this publication was? A google search for "Facts and Figures BR 1955" doesn't bring anything up besides this thread.
Helvellyn
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 Aug 2009
- Messages
- 2,572
I'm surprised a WCML version of the 309s (Mark 2 style bodywork) didn't emerge alongside the 310s rather than a fleet of Mark 2s for everything mid/long distance. But it was a very different world back then.
Given the fact that electrification was done in stages and bi-modes weren’t on the agenda, loco-haulage was the only option. Emus for West Midlands fast services might have been ok once the wires got all the way - but why add add more variety?
Sad Sprinter
Established Member
I have thought about this before. 309s could have been used instead of LHCS and then dragged away from the wires surely?
43096
On Moderation
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 18,778
They’d have needed some form of heating provided and there wasn’t exactly a lot of air brake/electric heat locos back then!
Why bother - you need LHCS, run round /release facilities etc for longer distance services anyway. Wasn’t it also the case that the 309s were notorious rough-riders initially?
Sad Sprinter
Established Member
Actually, it was this post made by yours-truly in 2019 on Alternate History Forums which mentions on page 3 from a BTC document, that London to Leeds services would have been run by multiple units. I believe I got the idea for using class 309s on Leeds services from another thread on that forum at the time.
East Coast Electrics-An Alternative British Railway
East Coast Electrics-An Alternative British Railway An artists illustration of a class 81 electric loco, presumably at London Kings Cross awaiting departure for Leeds. Yes, this is my third timeline on the go. I just can't help myself. If your wondering what has become of Thatcher...
www.alternatehistory.com
Although still no Ashford - Ore (which was originally included).
There was a prominent BR official painting of the "new railway", set at Grantham, with an AL1-type hauling an express, and a 309-type running the other way. Both sets of rolling stock in maroon. Maybe someone can find it on the web.
I have never heard it said that the 309s were in any way rough riders, they were fitted with the best bogies available at the time, (Commonwealth), and they also had special wheel profiles that reduced hunting at speed. What some may remember was that tyhe GEML was not the smoothest of lines and the AM9s would easily reach faster speeds than any other of the line's services in the '60s.
Sad Sprinter
Established Member
Yes, that was the source I used as inspiration for my 1950s East Coast electrification alternate history thread. In the thread I linked in my previous posts another user used a BTC report that explicitly said London to Leeds services would be operated by multiple units
Sir Felix Pole
Established Member
Yep, that's it. I inherited it from my grandfather - it was distributed to local companies by the goods agent I think.
P W B Semmens "Electrifying the East Coast Route" (pub 1991) refers to a BR ER and NER "Report on the Modernisation and Electrification of the East Coast Main Line between King's Cross and Newcastle and Certain Associated Lines" of June 1959, also a 1957 BTC Electrification Committee Report. From which he states that express EMUs (i.e. 309 type) would be used for at least some services - including to Leeds and Bradford; and also quotes some details of the proposed timetable.
I think he wrote an article for Modern Railways at that time (c1990) on the late 1950s' proposals, which had a map showing what was then proposed - which (IIRC) included to Sheffield (which would been seved from KX, not St Pancras), also for (for freight to Colwick).
It was different sort of railway then! One difference was the amount of regional autonomy, which is why the ER (and NER) could opt for express EMUs, while the LMR chose to make everything loco hauled.
I think he wrote an article for Modern Railways at that time (c1990) on the late 1950s' proposals, which had a map showing what was then proposed - which (IIRC) included to Sheffield (which would been seved from KX, not St Pancras), also for (for freight to Colwick).
It was different sort of railway then! One difference was the amount of regional autonomy, which is why the ER (and NER) could opt for express EMUs, while the LMR chose to make everything loco hauled.
Dr Hoo
Established Member
If you read Terry Gorvish's official British Railways 1948-1973 : A Business History it becomes painfully obvious that there were loads of very dodgy 'official' documents bouncing around that included some very poorly developed, incomplete, flimsy and frankly 'guesswork' Business Cases behind many supposed Projects. These tended to gloss over awkward bits such as conversion to electric train heating, alterations to stations and costs of disruption during the inevitably lengthy construction programmes; let alone more financial implications such as interest, discounting, rates of return and so on.
After much to-ing and fro-ing between the BTC and the Ministry, various Select Committees and the Stedeford Committee it wasn't until Ernest Marples was at last able to formally give the 'full' WCML scheme the go ahead on 30 January 1961. The first shovels had gone into the ground at the start of 1957 and the first electric runs on the Styal line were in 1958. The inaugural locomotive-hauled train from Manchester Piccadilly to Crewe had finally run in October 1960, I believe, but this was really only preliminary and experimental work before the full scheme.
The idea that there was any serious or detailed 'parallel' ECML electrification scheme being developed in line with the WCML is completely laughable, let alone specific rolling stock design choices.
It is, however, fair to say that the initial EMU requirements for the WCML scheme (AM4s) were developed alongside the Eastern Region schemes for the LTS and 'Chenford' groups (and, indeed, the Glasgow 'Blue Train' AM3s). This was for a common platform with 6.25kV/25kV capability, 75mph top speed and multiple control arrangements, etc.. This was obviously helpful for the supply industry. This did not include later the Clacton AM9 units
The regional boards reported directly to the British Transport Commission.
The Eastern Region were operating the local Colchester-Clacton service on 25kV from March 1959.
The Eastern Region had intended that the GN suburban electrification would follow on from the Chenford scheme, and a lot of planning had been done. This is clearly evident in the way that the Victoria line was constructed at Highbury and Islington and Finsbury Park.
- Status