159102 & 158763

[43096]

Both vehicles are damaged, particularly at the inner ends.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I’m just still surprised the spare body shell at Long Marston hasn’t been rebuilt yet, surely the remains of the written off vehicles would provide enough parts to “build” a new vehicle, than rebuild a potentially structurally damaged vehicle.

For unit in their twilight years, which 158s are it’s rarely worth the expense of basically fitting out a brand new vehicle. By the time that is completed there will potentially be the first 158s off lease.

 

[D365]

For unit in their twilight years, which 158s are it’s rarely worth the expense of basically fitting out a brand new vehicle. By the time that is completed there will potentially be the first 158s off lease.

Bingo. If GWR or SWR need more units, will the TfW 158s be available soon?

 

[43096]

For unit in their twilight years, which 158s are it’s rarely worth the expense of basically fitting out a brand new vehicle. By the time that is completed there will potentially be the first 158s off lease.

Then add in the current cost pressure on the railway and there is a benefit to writing these sets off. SWR don’t need the 159 (Bristol trains finished) for a start. The TOCs save leasing and maintenance costs, and the insurers will resolve Porterbrook’s position re lost revenue and asset value.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Bingo. If GWR or SWR need more units, will the TfW 158s be available soon?

Of course they’ll have to modify them so that the ERTMS software doesn’t cause issues.

 

[physics34]

Bit of a dumb dumb here...are these the units involved in the collision last year?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Bit of a dumb dumb here...are these the units involved in the collision last year?

Yes

 

[150249]

I personally do see the 158s and 150s lasting quite a long time in service. Especially the gwr examples.

 

[507020]

or perhaps the ability to augment one of Northern's 400hp sets to 3-car to see off one of the prototype 'Sprinters'

It’s the 155s that need to go before 150001 and 150002, which are both pleasant units.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I personally do see the 158s and 150s lasting quite a long time in service. Especially the gwr examples.

Regardless by the time a unit could be rebuilt other operators will have started dispensing with 15x rolling stock and it’ll be available for lease.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jul 2022 ==

Of course they’ll have to modify them so that the ERTMS software doesn’t cause issues.

That isn’t as difficult as it sounds, remember TfW class 158s run all over their network where ERTMS isn’t used such as by Holyhead drivers on semaphore signal routes. They also couple with 150s which don’t have the software fitted.

 

[D365]

Of course they’ll have to modify them so that the ERTMS software doesn’t cause issues.

The hardware would just be isolated; the Ansaldo installation won’t compatible with new ETCS installations such as GW and ECML.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jul 2022 ==

That isn’t as difficult as it sounds, remember TfW class 158s run all over their network where ERTMS isn’t used such as by Holyhead drivers on semaphore signal routes. They also couple with 150s which don’t have the software fitted.

When not operating on an ETCS route, the unit remains under NTC (National Train Control i.e. AWS/TPWS) authority.

 

[northernbelle]

I personally do see the 158s and 150s lasting quite a long time in service. Especially the gwr examples.

I think the next priority will be to replace the 150s - GWR and TfW have plans in progress for the generation of trains that will replace them. The oldest units are approaching 40 years old and while the refurbished examples really are decent trains, spare parts obsolescence is a growing consideration. The only thing that might slow down replacement of 150s at GWR (and indeed 158s at Scotrail) is the higher priority of withdrawing expensive HSTs.

If I had to bet my gran on it, in years to come Northern will end up being the single concentration of the remaining 150s, living out their lives pending replacement by politically-motivated north electrification, with the other TOCs having replaced their 150s with new or cascaded stock.

 

[150249]

I think the next priority will be to replace the 150s - GWR and TfW have plans in progress for the generation of trains that will replace them. The oldest units are approaching 40 years old and while the refurbished examples really are decent trains, spare parts obsolescence is a growing consideration. The only thing that might slow down replacement of 150s at GWR (and indeed 158s at Scotrail) is the higher priority of withdrawing expensive HSTs.

If I had to bet my gran on it, in years to come Northern will end up being the single concentration of the remaining 150s, living out their lives pending replacement by politically-motivated north electrification, with the other TOCs having replaced their 150s with new or cascaded stock.

Surely the 150s and 158s are perfect candidates for preservation?

 

[northernbelle]

Surely the 150s and 158s are perfect candidates for preservation?

Quite possibly - I was referring to their main line careers.

 

[150249]

Quite possibly - I was referring to their main line careers.

I thought I'd think out of the box.

 

[DanNCL]

Of course they’ll have to modify them so that the ERTMS software doesn’t cause issues.

That isn’t as difficult as it sounds, remember TfW class 158s run all over their network where ERTMS isn’t used such as by Holyhead drivers on semaphore signal routes. They also couple with 150s which don’t have the software fitted.

The issue isn't the software itself, but rather that the modifications to fit the units with ETCS left them with cabs completely different to those on other 158s, and therefore require additional traction training even for drivers who already sign 158s.

 

[D365]

The issue isn't the software itself, but rather that the modifications to fit the units with ETCS left them with cabs completely different to those on other 158s, and therefore require additional traction training even for drivers who already sign 158s.

This will be the case for every ex-BR vehicle when fitted with ETCS.

 

[Sm5]

Surely the 150s and 158s are perfect candidates for preservation?

Indeed after Sprinters, its going to be a hard road for preservation to acquire and use… what use is a Pendolino, Voyager, Adelante etc ? Maybe Turbostars, after that the clock may well stop ticking when it comes to active preservation of ex-passenger stock.

 

[DanNCL]

This will be the case for every ex-BR vehicle when fitted with ETCS.

And indeed on many post-privatisation types too.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Surely the 150s and 158s are perfect candidates for preservation?

Yes,when all the Pacers have fallen into disrepair . Trouble is a couple of each will suffice,you don’t want to flood preserved lines with the things.

 

[150249]

Yes,when all the Pacers have fallen into disrepair . Trouble is a couple of each will suffice,you don’t want to flood preserved lines with the things.

Indeed, have any gotten into a state of disrepair yet?

 

[Ashley Hill]

Indeed, have any gotten into a state of disrepair yet?

Give it time……

 

[meld3]

Indeed, have any gotten into a state of disrepair yet?

They started in disrepair....

 

[150249]

They started in disrepair....

Fair enough. Chances are that a 142 will break tomorrow

 

[Ashley Hill]

Fair enough. Chances are that a 142 will break tomorrow

It’s not that they’ll break tomorrow but that they’ll fall out of favour when spine friendly sprinters get preserved.

 

[delt1c]

Though in the case of a single driving car, there's not much you can do with it other than creating a hybrid 3-car set. Outside of another incident happening which damages a different 158/159 vehicle beyond repair, there probably won't be a need for it.

Look at the history of the 310’s. Won’t say to much but worth researching

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Look at the history of the 310’s. Won’t say to much but worth researching

BR had to make do and mend much of the time, as I alluded to in an earlier post. Hence some of the elaborate reconfigurations that vehicles underwent when required. Even into the privatised era there were things like that 455 that had a "new" vehicle created from a class 210 car after a cement mixer fell on the original.
But with the 158s being the age they are, and with plenty of intact ones coming available in the next few years, there probably isn't any need to do anything with the least damaged car from Salisbury. Not least with SWR still running a reduced service.

If the collision had been less severe and left all the vehicles just needing a bit of T-cut and polish, that would have happened by now.

 

[Davester50]

Wasn't there a spare shell for these kinds of mishaps?
I guess once past a certain age it's not cost effective to re-shell just the one car.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Wasn't there a spare shell for these kinds of mishaps?
I guess once past a certain age it's not cost effective to re-shell just the one car.

Indeed by the time it would be fitted out there’s units of the same class due off lease….

 

[Davester50]

Indeed by the time it would be fitted out there’s units of the same class due off lease….

Thought so!
Presuming it's the same LeaseCo that owns the soon to be off lease trains as the ones that were damaged?