14th July, ECML shut at Huntingdon

[All Line Rover]

Day two of my ALR - and more compensation! (Two yesterday and two today!)

Which does not, of course, detract some the upsetting circumstances which surround this delay (and the one yesterday). Why do all of my delays have to be caused by suicides? Why can't we have some signal failures?!!!
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POST DELETED, after having decided that this is too off topic, and that I do not want to discuss mental health issues on a public forum.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Whether they decide to keep the life support machine on or turn it off is their decision."

If they are on life support, then there's no way they will be able to make their own decision unless they have agreed to a DNR before.

 

[All Line Rover]

If they are on life support, then there's no way they will be able to make their own decision unless they have agreed to a DNR before.

Of course I do not know the intricacies surrounding life support systems - this is just my opinion of what people in such situations should be able to do.

 

[class377man]

I think a few on here need to realise that someone who does somethng as desperate as sitting on a rail line 'till a train smashes them to bits isn't a rationally thinking person. Think of it as mental illness if you like - these people can not be judged in the same way you would judge a sane and untroubled person.

I agree entirely.

Not to take anything away from the obvious distress caused to the driver and any other witnesses.

 

[Bittern]

It's quite clear that people who actually think that these people who commit suicide on the railway are selfish because only do so because they did it on the railway, and as such, are quite selfish themselves. So your thoughts are with the train-crew? That's good, but what about the person involved? They're not exactly selfish if they wish to take their own life. They're troubled. Troubled so much that they don't feel that life is worth living anymore.

Now, I don't believe for one second that suicide is a way out. I agree that the train-crew don't deserve to have to deal with this, but I do know that sometimes, people's lives can throw so much in their path that it almost seems like there's no alternative. For this, I simply cannot judge the person who takes their own life. I absolutely refuse to label them as "selfish" because they chose to do it on the railway rather than jumping off a building or buying a gun, and quite frankly, the people that do label them as such need to open their eyes and see that the world is not a perfect place. Everyone goes through troubles, and some more than others. If you desperately want to stop suicides, then try volunteering at your local Samaritans office to provide a shoulder to cry on, or volunteer at ChildLine to listen to a young person in need.

That said, my thoughts are with the traincrew, the family of the victim and the victim themself.
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+1 MattE, I have very little time for someone who wants to endanger the lives of everyone on a train or around him because he feels like he has to end their own life!

And another thing that really needs to end! There are TWO genders, and members of both can take their own lives! Everyone, please realize this.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

In my opinion there is never a valid reason to end ones life prematurely . . .

Thank you for your opinion.
Quite clearly many people disagree and express their disagreement by doing exactly that; so its self-evidential that this opinion cannot be substantiated.

I'll stop now as this is quite off topic from "ECML problems!"

Good, it wasn't going anywhere. At least the ECML is - its moving again.

Resilience is one of the greatest weaknesses of our network, and with all the talk of minor improvements or radical new HS routes, we really must concentrate on meeting future capacity and resilience to adversity. Suicides do occur, they will continue to occur and they do so with a wide range of modes - the railways are just one of many.

[BTW Suicide hasn't been a crime for decades!]

 

[A-driver]

Busy day for this then. The up Brighton fast was non stop at clapham junction when I drive through at about 11 due to someone under a western on their down slow. Think it was a Waterloo-dorking train.

 

[es373]

I really think it would be a good idea for the admin team here to prohibit users from posting up fatalities.
Every time it gets into a rant and rave about "uuh i dont feel sorry blah blah".

Do you not think that maybe either familes/persons/whoever involved is on this forum?

Admins, please dont allow these type of posts.

 

[All Line Rover]

Post deleted.

 

[A0]

Now if only Ely-March-Peterborough was electrified, things would be a lot better.

Not electrifying an obvious diversionary route is extremely shortsighted.
Ah well ..... but that's the way we do things in Brtitain.

Electrifying a 'secondary' line simply to provide a fall-back doesn't make much sense. Apart from the capital cost of the infrastructure there's the ongoing maintenance etc.

The other services using this line would remain diesel powered, unless there was extensive onward electrificaiton (e.g. Ely - Norwich, Cambridge - Ipswich or Peterboro - Birmingham) which again, for secondary routes doesn't make sense.

Simply commenting sardonically that 'it's not the way we do things in Britain' ignores the fact that few, if any, countries go to the expense of electrifying all sorts of secondary routes just in case.

 

[Yorkswatcher]

Might have a other today the 06.40 leeds to london is stuck at new north gate do to smoke coming from toes the engine.

 

[wensley]

Might have a other today the 06.40 leeds to london is stuck at new north gate do to smoke coming from toes the engine.

The train is currently at a stand in the platforms at Newark whilst the problem is investigated.
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Now underway 28 late, loco has either had fault rectified or been deemed fit to continue

 

[sonorguy]

I'll rephrase what I said. There is no reason to end ones life prematurely - no matter what!

If someone wants to disagree, so be it, but that's very sad.

Speaking as a psychiatric professional, you're talking absolute rubbish. If, as has been pointed out to you, there were no reasons to end one's life prematurely then no-one would do it. The fact that a large number of people do (most of whom aren't known to pychiatric services at all), means that your statement is simply naive, and more to the point, plain wrong.

Sadly the actual reason why many people do (only a few leave notes, contrary to popular belief) is never known as they aren't around to ask. In those who do leave notes or letters many of the reasons are perceptions of an individual's situation that may not be accurate but this does not mean that they are any less powerful in terms of cognition and the actions that follow.

Many people that I've spoken to after suicide attempts, whether military people on operational tours or civilians in everyday life, are people that only a short while before would never have thought of suicide as an option. I hope that you are never in the position where these kind of thoughts are to the forefront of your mind but none of us know what the future holds. People like this (along with all the others involved be it train crew, emergency services or whoever) should expect a bit of empathy and understanding, not the ignorant ramblings of people who want to appear hard on the internet.

 

[Martin nx]

There always seems to be something against people who commit suicide on the railway.


None from me! I had one under me when on the railway in 77, bloke stood in front of me on the down fast in Sonning Cutting and I got him with a 47 an 12 on the back at 90mph and a full emerg brake app plus a lot of swearing and eyes closed. He finished up all over the drawbar and under the front bogie and I had to climb down and use the phone on the nearest signal and then turn round and walk back to the loco. Not nice and not a lot of sympathy I'm afraid.

 

[38Cto15E]

There seems an awful lot of these in recent months.

 

[stut]

Many people that I've spoken to after suicide attempts, whether military people on operational tours or civilians in everyday life, are people that only a short while before would never have thought of suicide as an option. I hope that you are never in the position where these kind of thoughts are to the forefront of your mind but none of us know what the future holds. People like this (along with all the others involved be it train crew, emergency services or whoever) should expect a bit of empathy and understanding, not the ignorant ramblings of people who want to appear hard on the internet.

That is my experience too.

A common theme seems to be the (wholly irrational) belief that their existence is causing such pain to others (specifically or generally) that suicide is the only option. Once they come to that realisation, it can be an almost euphoric release, and the planning and execution eerily calm and meticulous.

(Obviously, this is just a theme.)

Their act is therefore selfish, but their reasoning is not.

But you need to remember that it's irrational, and can't be explained by applying rational thought. Ever had a superstition, or been afraid of something that you know can't hurt you? Now magnify that, and apply it to something that affects your whole life...

 

[pendolino]

Day two of my ALR - and more compensation! (Two yesterday and two today!)

Which does not, of course, detract some the upsetting circumstances which surround this delay (and the one yesterday). Why do all of my delays have to be caused by suicides? Why can't we have some signal failures?!!!

Someone kills themself and you boast about how it'll get you compensation for the delay - with a smiley?? Good grief.

Whether they are mentally ill or not does not negate the fact that committing suicide (in whatever form) is a selfish act. It causes much distress to the person's relatives and friends, and in the case of committing suicide on the railway also causes varying degrees of distress to the driver.

There are plenty of mentally ill and/or depressed people about, but they do not all go and commit suicide, such as by jumping in front of a train.

People who commit suicide must have a very low opinion of the value of life, in contrast to the vast majority of people whether depressed or not (except: a. soldiers, b. suicide bombers, c. people who abuse alcohol and/or drugs, d. etc.).

In my opinion there is never a valid reason to end ones life prematurely, except in the case of severely ill people on life support machines who, if the life support machine was turned off, would die. Whether they decide to keep the life support machine on or turn it off is their decision.

I'll stop now as this is quite off topic from "ECML problems!"

While that may be your opinion, I don't think you have the slightest clue what you're talking about with regard to mental illness, so probably best you do stop, yes.

 

[DarloRich]

Whether they are mentally ill or not does not negate the fact that committing suicide (in whatever form) is a selfish act. It causes much distress to the person's relatives and friends, and in the case of committing suicide on the railway also causes varying degrees of distress to the driver.

There are plenty of mentally ill and/or depressed people about, but they do not all go and commit suicide, such as by jumping in front of a train.

People who commit suicide must have a very low opinion of the value of life, in contrast to the vast majority of people whether depressed or not (except: a. soldiers, b. suicide bombers, c. people who abuse alcohol and/or drugs, d. etc.).

In my opinion there is never a valid reason to end ones life prematurely, except in the case of severely ill people on life support machines who, if the life support machine was turned off, would die. Whether they decide to keep the life support machine on or turn it off is their decision.QUOTE]

I am afraid you, clearly, have no idea what you are talking about. I do have a bit of experience in this area(which i don’t really want to go into here and trust me here, I wish I DIDNT have this kind experience) and have kept silent on these types of posts before. BUT

This is the kind of attitude that prevents people from getting the help they need which might offer a chance to arrest the mental decline people go through before getting to the point of no return. But of course YOU will be ok because it is only the weak and/or selfish people that do this kind of thing. Not decent hard working people who just knuckle down and get on with things.

I really hope that mental health issues never touch you or your family or friends. I wonder if you have ever thought WHAT caused someone to sit on a railway line until they are hit by a train. I wonder if you have ever thought, could anyone have done anything to prevent this or help this person?

 

[sonorguy]

I am happy that I was delayed because I want to claim compensation - it's quite simple. It's not my fault or my problem that both delays were caused by suicides!



It is my opinion based on personal experience (more to come below), so I do know what I'm talking about with regard to mental illnesses.
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Thank you for making needless assumptions. In actual fact I do know what I'm talking about - from personal experience - as although I have never suffered from a mental illness myself it has touched family/friends of mine (I'm not being specific on a public forum).

The basic point I am making is that depression or a mental illness does not automatically mean suicidal thoughts. If someone does have suicidal thoughts, they are obviously mentally ill (which includes severe depression as it is a mental illness). Unfortunately, many people in these cases do not seek help. Even if family or friends seek help for them, they often ignore it or do not take needed medication (such as anti-depressants).

If someone feels that they cannot solve their problems except by killing themselves, then they are a "weak" person - there's no getting around that. If someone is experiencing a problem, someone else has almost certainly experienced the same problem - and has not gone and killed themselves. However, a "weak" person who has suicidal thoughts is probably "weak" mentally, especially if they don't seek help or take medication.

Like you, I will not elaborate further on my own personal experiences, as this is a railway forum (which is why I'm here) - not a mental health forum! I will not comment further on this subject, but I want to make clear that I do have personal experience with this! (To be honest, most people have, but don't want to talk about it).
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That is true. However, any further religious discussion should go in General Discussion - not in a thread about the ECML!

I have my own opinions on religion, but do not want to discuss it on a public forum to do with the railways. I am here to talk about the railways and all things with it - nothing else!

I'll say this again; I really do know what I'm talking about as it's my profession. You're talking absolute cobblers and I'd stop now as you're making yourself look stupid.

 

[All Line Rover]

I'll say this again; I really do know what I'm talking about as it's my profession. You're talking absolute cobblers and I'd stop now as you're making yourself look stupid.

Oh yes, I forgot - psychiatrists know everything, don't they! From my experience the majority of them are pathetic and completely unless.

I as said above, I will not discuss this matter any further as that is not the reason why I am here!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Oh yes, I forgot - psychiatrists know everything, don't they! From my experience the majority of them are pathetic and completely unless.

I as said above, I will not discuss this matter any further as that is not the reason why I am here!

Yes, because a teenager is likely to know more about it than someone who has gone through 6 years of medical training, and a further 2 or 3 to specialise in psychiatry!

 

[All Line Rover]

Yes, because a teenager is likely to know more about it than someone who has gone through 6 years of medical training, and a further 2 or 3 to specialise in psychiatry!

Someone who has had much personal experience of observing such issues is likely to know quite a lot about it, yes.

Psychiatrists rarely know the backgrounds surrounding peoples issues, which often means that their "advice" is not very helpful.

I suggest that we all shut up as this is going nowhere.

 

[christopher]

Could of sworn the topic title was; 14th July, ECML shut at Huntingdon :?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Anyhow, peeps have derailed my thread

Not only that, but brought it down to the lowest level of debate I recall on here for some time (uninformed opinions etc.).
Not your fault at all amcluesent, but its a great shame, as some of the matters involved have profound effects on individuals (from aquaintances to professionals) and on the running of the Railways to a timetabled plan. Just how the Railways (as a whole) address the recurring issues of suicides remains a great challenge to be handled both with sensitivity and robustness, at the same time as other agencies consider their own contributions in a similar manner.

There is still a lot of work to be done, on many fronts, but I take EC's announcement as a small glimmer of hope that a multi-agency approach may deliver benefits. Sadly, I doubt that some of the crucial agencies are minded to budge (I will include the DCMS and the Home Office and their equivalents in Scotland & Northern Ireland in my criticism. I also suspect that pressures on the NHS continue to push it towards a re-active rather than a pro-active stance to suicide and its contributory factors.)

Of course suicides impact on other industries too, but not with comparable impacts on high numbers of MoPs*; perhaps this is why the Railways merit the devising of additional strategies, and why there is so little experience to draw on from other industries to assist in finding the appropriate form of communicating a suicide to the passengers affected.

*MoP - Member of the Public

PS. As a matter of personal irony, I read Goethe's very relevant "The Sorrows of Young Werther" while travelling on the ECML!

 

[sonorguy]

Someone who has had much personal experience of observing such issues is likely to know quite a lot about it, yes.

Psychiatrists rarely know the backgrounds surrounding peoples issues, which often means that their "advice" is not very helpful.

I suggest that we all shut up as this is going nowhere.

You're showing your complete ignorance again. A person's background is the most important part of any assessment done on a person and can take up to many hours of listening to someone to fully extract if the patient has something like a personality disorder.

You know nothing at all about it, and this is very obvious by your idiotic postings. You don't have the choice to end the conversation.

You've tried to come across as knowledgeable when you aren't and now you've been caught out you're just making it up as you go along.

Edited to add: Apologies for this being diverted somewhat, but I'm not going to let idiotic and ignorant comments like ALR's go unchallenged

 

[All Line Rover]

You're showing your complete ignorance again. A person's background is the most important part of any assessment done on a person and can take up to many hours of listening to someone to fully extract if the patient has something like a personality disorder.

You know nothing at all about it, and this is very obvious by your idiotic postings. You don't have the choice to end the conversation.

You've tried to come across as knowledgeable when you aren't and now you've been caught out you're just making it up as you go along.

Edited to add: Apologies for this being diverted somewhat, but I'm not going to let idiotic and ignorant comments like ALR's go unchallenged

Oh dear! I don't care if you think I'm an idiot or not - that's my experience of psychiatrists and I'm not going to discuss it any further. If you want to argue some more then I suggest you go and register on a mental health forum! People do not visit this forum to read about such issues!

 

[Shandy]

He was a very troubled soul with a lot of problems and had held up traffic on the A14 a few weeks previous trying to jump off the bridge.