£3 Bus fare cap extended to 2027

[DDB]

I suspect it is a rural vs city problem. I suspect in most citys a return or all day product is already below £6 probably on a mostly or entirely commercial basis. (I assume the vast majority of passengers make more than one journey a day as they need to get back to where they srarted).
Rural bus services which are always going to struggle more for passengers and cost more to run are the ones where the £3 cap still represents a significant saving and a necessary subsidy. The question is, is this the best way to provide the needed subsidy?

 

[stevieinselby]

But if other operators are keeping the £3 fare cap, what's different about Preston? Unless they are simply the first to make an announcement.

Different operators might find that the economies of the rebate are different – but I suspect that the biggest factor will be the risk of passengers putting two fingers up if the fares go back to a commercial level. If they can have a commercial flat rate of £3.50 then that isn't going to upset passengers too much – like when Safeguard decided to ignore the £2 cap, but their maximum single fare was only £2.50 anyway – it's unlikely that going back to a commercial fare would lose them many passengers. But if operators on longer rural routes pulled out of the cap then they are putting their fare income at greater jeopardy. How many fare-paying passengers would still use Yorkshire Coastliner at probably getting on for £20 return, now that everyone has got used to them being less than a third of the price?

 

[Mark L]

How many fare-paying passengers would still use Yorkshire Coastliner at probably getting on for £20 return, now that everyone has got used to them being less than a third of the price?

That’s the $64,000 question. The lack of an exit strategy from the £2 (now £3) fare cap has always been a concern and there still doesn’t seem to be a plan beyond seeking to kick the can ever further down the alley.

The increase in costs in recent years means that uncapped fares are almost certainly going to be significantly higher than those in place before the cap was introduced.

If it gets a further “temporary” extension beyond March 2027 that will put its demise perilously close to the next general election. Whilst the vast majority of the population probably doesn’t give two hoots about buses (and of course the fare cap is irrelevant to voters outside England) there are a large number of seats currently held by Labour that are very marginal which may influence what happens next.

 

[Starmill]

Some Coastliner return fares (as in period returns, a day return being ever so slightly cheaper) were over £30 before the cap grants started.

Is it not the case that the Central Government has poured vast sums of money into the coffers of Greater Manchester in an attempt to keep Andy Burnham in post as Greater Manchester Mayor and well away from a certain high political role in Westminster?

Vast sums of money is massively stretching it.

Whatever you want to call it, unless we're actually serious about public transport and buses in particular, of which time and time again we've seen the UK is far from serious, I can't see it being viable long term.

It's perfectly viable in London because it reached a minimum efficient scale there. The bus is cheap, well used and accessible to nearly everyone. Manchester is miles behind, but of everywhere in England has the best chances of catching up. It probably won't do though.

 

[Llandudno]

Different operators might find that the economies of the rebate are different – but I suspect that the biggest factor will be the risk of passengers putting two fingers up if the fares go back to a commercial level. If they can have a commercial flat rate of £3.50 then that isn't going to upset passengers too much – like when Safeguard decided to ignore the £2 cap, but their maximum single fare was only £2.50 anyway – it's unlikely that going back to a commercial fare would lose them many passengers. But if operators on longer rural routes pulled out of the cap then they are putting their fare income at greater jeopardy. How many fare-paying passengers would still use Yorkshire Coastliner at probably getting on for £20 return, now that everyone has got used to them being less than a third of the price?

Get rid of the fare cap and you would probably only get Concessionary pass holders travelling any great distance on routes like the Yorkshire Coastliner…

 

[mangad]

Is it not the case that the Central Government has poured vast sums of money into the coffers of Greater Manchester in an attempt to keep Andy Burnham in post as Greater Manchester Mayor and well away from a certain high political role in Westminster?

It's at this point we should all remember that Bus Franchising came about under the previous Conservative administration, and in Greater Manchester franchising was well underway before Labour took power in Westminster. Money has flowed from Central Government to authorities across the UK from both the current and previous administrations. And never forget that Greater Manchester's £2 fare came in before the national £2 scheme.

As for Andy Burnham, I think we only need to look at his electoral history in the post where he won by a massive margin on both his elections. He is not someone who needs propping up. His competitors have been miles behind since day one.

Whilst I don't know the ins and outs of funding for Greater Manchester specifically, I think it's a massive stretch to say the Bee Network is being propped up by the current central government trying to keep Andy Burnham out of the way. What we have seen instead is governments from two different parties investing in public transport.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Dec 2025 ==

Whatever you want to call it, unless we're actually serious about public transport and buses in particular, of which time and time again we've seen the UK is far from serious, I can't see it being viable long term.

We have buses in Greater Manchester that are regularly nowhere near full. If you doubled the number of passengers on said buses many would still have room. Lower fares are a way to get those buses fuller. This isn't a unique thing. There are many examples in commerce where if you lower the price you sell more and end up making more money.

Putting up fares in Greater Manchester certainly won't increase passenger levels. And is unlikely to help revenue. Lower fares have a lot more chance of doing so.

 

[Russel]

We have buses in Greater Manchester that are regularly nowhere near full. If you doubled the number of passengers on said buses many would still have room. Lower fares are a way to get those buses fuller. This isn't a unique thing. There are many examples in commerce where if you lower the price you sell more and end up making more money.

Putting up fares in Greater Manchester certainly won't increase passenger levels. And is unlikely to help revenue. Lower fares have a lot more chance of doing so.

Are your buses that, as you say, are no where near full, filling up though?

If it isn't leading to a significant increase in passengers, all it is achieving is providing existing customers with artificially low fares, which I don't object to, public transport should be affordable, but I'd question the long term sustainability of it...

Fare caps and subsidised bus fares in generally I fully support, but, as I've already said in previous posts, the UK hasn't been serious about bus services for a long time, despite the soundbites from successive governments on how they are supporting local bus services, the year on year overall reduction in services and passenger number would suggest otherwise. Note I'm talking about bus use on a national scale here.

 

[Starmill]

Are your buses that, as you say, are no where near full, filling up though?

If it isn't leading to a significant increase in passengers, all it is achieving is providing existing customers with artificially low fares, which I don't object to, public transport should be affordable, but I'd question the long term sustainability of it...

Fare caps and subsidised bus fares in generally I fully support, but, as I've already said in previous posts, the UK hasn't been serious about bus services for a long time, despite the soundbites from successive governments on how they are supporting local bus services, the year on year overall reduction in services and passenger number would suggest otherwise. Note I'm talking about bus use on a national scale here.

Given it has been the long term practice in London it doesn't seem at all difficult to justify in the context of a large city. Arguably a £2 flat fare is too high. Yes, in outlying towns and villages not close to a major city, obviously this is a challenge and can't possibly be achieved without some long term commitment to subsidy money.

 

[Russel]

Given it has been the long term practice in London it doesn't seem at all difficult to justify in the context of a large city. Arguably a £2 flat fare is too high. Yes, in outlying towns and villages not close to a major city, obviously this is a challenge and can't possibly be achieved without some long term commitment to subsidy money.

London is very different to Manchester though, or anywhere else in the UK, much lower car ownership for a start.

 

[Starmill]

London is very different to Manchester though, or anywhere else in the UK, much lower car ownership for a start.

Which is why precisely the same approach would be unlikely to work, and isn't being tried.

 

[Russel]

Which is why precisely the same approach would be unlikely to work, and isn't being tried.

I didn't say it was!

 

[Kite159]

Is there many routes in Preston which both Preston Bus & another operator (ie Stagecoach) compete with each other?

If so it will be interesting to see if passengers wise on to turn down the Preston Bus for the competitor running a few minutes later to save money.

 

[stevieinselby]

We have buses in Greater Manchester that are regularly nowhere near full. If you doubled the number of passengers on said buses many would still have room. Lower fares are a way to get those buses fuller. This isn't a unique thing. There are many examples in commerce where if you lower the price you sell more and end up making more money.

The question there is what proportion of buses are that lightly used. If many services are well used then lowering fares to increase ridership will overload those routes – it's unlikely that you would be able to selectively lower fares only on the services that are carrying a lot of fresh air.

 

[mangad]

Is there many routes in Preston which both Preston Bus & another operator (ie Stagecoach) compete with each other?

If so it will be interesting to see if passengers wise on to turn down the Preston Bus for the competitor running a few minutes later to save money.

Apropos to nothing but between Hayfield and New Mills, both Derbyshire , two bus routes run. One is the Bee Network (the 358), the other run by High Peak (61).

Bee Network have their £2 flat fare which applies even outside of Greater Manchester. High Peak's fare on their service? Yup, £2.

They have no susbsidy to do so. But they have matched their competitor's fare. Probably wisely.

 

[LancasterRed]

Is there many routes in Preston which both Preston Bus & another operator (ie Stagecoach) compete with each other?

If so it will be interesting to see if passengers wise on to turn down the Preston Bus for the competitor running a few minutes later to save money.

Most routes Preston Bus run have a Stagecoach, Vision or Archway service that goes up against them.

Services 40, 41, 45, 46, 61, 68, 74 and 125 are generally faster on higher quality buses too. Preston Bus' 19, 19A and 48 have unique offerings but have reliability issues and in the case of the 48 only runs once an hour. The two big wins they have are the 23 and 35 being very frequent but they usually run full and standing as a result.