marshlinker
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It won't have in winter!
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UK switching to electric vehicles discussion
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thejuggler
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We had two original smarts. they had tiny 22 litre fuel tanks, but good for 200-250 miles (50-60mpg). 'Recharging' took a few minutes at a petrol station. No need for an EV with those figures.
250 miles of petrol at 60mpg - £33
250 miles of electricity at 5m/kWh* - £13.15, and recharge while you are doing something else, eg sleeping.
* at standard price cap rate of 26.3p / kWh. My guess is that a Smart #2 will do rather better than 5m/kWh.
Indeed, the point i was making was around a winter long distance journey, and that for that sort of car that would be unusual and so would be ideal for a lot of people.
Especially given that it's not uncommon for people to stick to about 15 journeys of over 50 miles a year.
My rate is currently 6.6p per kWh for car charging. Max 6 hours at that rate using smart charger, which would be overkill for the battery in the Smart. I could charge from 0% each night and still be finished before the time limit was reached.
And conversely in UK summer conditions the range will be even higher. The UK has an increasingly mild climate and urban areas are typically even warmer. The cost of using a small EV for urban commuting in the UK would be tiny if home charging, and even if you are public charging would be cheaper than any comparable petrol or diesel because you will be significantly exceeding the quoted range/miles per kWh. You cannot do that with an ICE in an urban context.
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marshlinker
Member
How much premium are you paying on your day rate to get your 6.6p?
I would suggest it depends on if that's on a fixed tariff.
I pay 3.8p per kWh off peak, day rate is 27.8p whilst the current price cap is 26.32p.
I used abot 366kWh off peak of which 68kWh was home and 121kWh peak of which 113kWh was home.
As such (ignoring my EV use) my average kWh rate as around 19p, whilst all useage was around 11p per kWh.
My standing rate is also about 10p a day less than the current price cap rate.
That was fixed in the days before the US started striking Iran (just through dumb luck, I'm not in the great and glorious leaders inner circle - so had no pre warning of what was due to come).
36.18p (standing charge 51.67p per day) - and this is fixed until 29 September 2027.
But I have a home battery, so run off the off-peak rate all day.
And with the way Octopus works, if I plug the car in every day and it decides to use cheap electricity in the daytime, it takes the electricity from the grid then and charges the 6.6p rate (as well as making all household usage the same 6.6p rate - which I don't benefit from because I'm running off the battery).
Harpers Tate
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A better question might be:
What is your net/average rate using a split tariff vs a flat one?
For example, in the last full month before I got my own Solar/Battery, my effective rate for electricity was under 15p/unit over 24 hours x 1 month, compared to the flat rate at the time of around 23p. Bear in mind: not all domestic use occurs in the daytime, and for some, it's also feasible to shift some day consumption into the off-peak period; we used to run our dishwasher, washing machine and dryer overnight whenever we could.
If you get a decent size battery (and batteries are way cheaper now with Fogstar being one brand that's very good value) then you can charge from the off peak rate to go all day when without solar panels.
Obviously if you can get solar then all the better and the tariff does require having an EV and smart charging it at least once per month.
Obviously if you can get solar then all the better and the tariff does require having an EV and smart charging it at least once per month.
Which requires A/C another drain on the battery
marshlinker
Member
Whilst I acknowledge that (and i manage 76 Kwp of Solar plus a little battery storage over 3 sites for my heritage railway) Its not really a representative running cost of an EV in my opinion.
Which is why I used the standard capped rate. As every electricity consumer has access to that, acceptign that not every car driver will find it easy to put electricity at that rate into their car.
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Only if there is a big difference in outside temperature versus required inside temperature. Which, heatwaves excluded, most of the time there isn’t as, as I said previously, we live in a country with a mild (not super hot or super cold) climate.
Harpers Tate
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.....whereas using a/c in a conventional vehicle makes no difference. Except that it does - quite dramatically. (The same is not true of heating; that does indeed have no material effect on consumption in an ICE).
birchesgreen
Established Member
Yes i have AC in my ICE car but seldom use it as its too annoying.
The UK is rapidly approaching a Mediterranean climate, - yesterday there was a meteorologist saying that we will have 'Warm Wet Winters, Hot Dry Summers' which I firmly remember from my Geography O levels. Sounds good but of course, the wet bit can be seriously so, just look at the regular flood in the Med coast areas in France and Spain.
Snow1964
Veteran Member
I just leave it on all year, demists in winter.
I will manually boost fan speed or put on screen, but never touch the a/c button. Although my most recent 3 cars (including current EV) have dual zone climate control so can just leave it in auto mode.
And if left ticking over, never needs sanitiser, or a/c service (lucrative for dealers) and doesn't ever seem to leak as seals don't dry out. Had cars upto 9 years old and never needed regassing either. I figure a few pence on fuel each day is better than a £100-150 regas bill
It's negligible after the initial cool down. I say in my Tesla on a conference call in blazing sun over 30C outside for 90 minutes and used less than 2% of the battery.
SWT_USER
Member
I am being nosey, but curious how you are benefitting from NOT having an EV tariff? Is it a case of not doing enough miles or being able to shift household use to off peak times?
I've just run my numbers from January to June and my net rate per kWh is 18.14p per kWh, so significantly under the price cap and any other fixes, even factoring in the higher day rate. I will miss my 3.49p off peak rate when my current deal ends in December!
Don’t do enough miles, the house is occupied all day every day, and Mrs BR refuses to countenance having washer / dryer / dishwasher on overnight.
I'd suggest seriously looking into a home battery.
Fogstar will do a 16.1kWh battery with inverter for about £2600 (excluding fitting). That's probably sufficient for most homes (we have just 13.5kWh at the moment).
I can't vouch for the company but they're definitely gaining ground by being way more affordable than something from, say, Tesla or Sigenergy.
I have Fox ESS and you can buy cube batteries to add more storage literally by stacking a new one on the pile (in 5kWh blocks).
If you then get a EV tariff, you can charge the batteries during the night and run at whatever night rate you can get - 6.6p for me (fixed until September 2027).
You only have to charge once per month to qualify for the intelligent tariff.
Yep I’m looking into that, as for various reasons full solar doesn’t work for us (although plug in is doable).
Snow1964
Veteran Member
Been looking at some statistics
Currently about 2.3m EVs in UK
EV numbers are going up by over 50,000 per month (454k sold in Jan-Sept), so will be over 2.4m EVs in UK by end of the year.
There are 124,738 public chargers at 48,298 locations
About 95,000 are upto 49 kW
14,387 are rapid (50-149 kW)
15,335 are ultra-rapid (150 or more kW)
Estimated there are now 1.6m home chargers (increasing by 25,000-30,000 per month) based on installation data
Suggests about 70% of EVs have access to home charging,
I guess other 30% use public or work chargers
For those interested in availability, Autotrader currently lists 32,034 electric cars, 26,380 used and 5598 that are brand new
Currently about 2.3m EVs in UK
EV numbers are going up by over 50,000 per month (454k sold in Jan-Sept), so will be over 2.4m EVs in UK by end of the year.
There are 124,738 public chargers at 48,298 locations
About 95,000 are upto 49 kW
14,387 are rapid (50-149 kW)
15,335 are ultra-rapid (150 or more kW)
Estimated there are now 1.6m home chargers (increasing by 25,000-30,000 per month) based on installation data
Suggests about 70% of EVs have access to home charging,
I guess other 30% use public or work chargers
For those interested in availability, Autotrader currently lists 32,034 electric cars, 26,380 used and 5598 that are brand new
Interested to know where you’re getting these figures from? Are they just retrofits or does it include new builds as well?
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I should have added that solar is something you (not you literally, as you just said) want to add too, but that may be harder and more expensive (taking into account scaffolding costs, labour etc).
The advantage of solar is less dependence on electricity that might get more expensive even at off peak times.
But I'd do a battery before solar every time. The only exception perhaps plug-in solar, which will be a lot easier for many people. Sadly right now it seems the prices promised (as charged in other countries) have not materialised yet. Seems early adopters are being fleeced.