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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.
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tfw756rider
On Moderation
No, but they'll be entering service on Cambrian Coast Line services between Machynlleth and Pwllheli on Mon 19/10/26.
(next Monday)
BenBracken
Member
Someone mentioned earlier it would be a 48 hour introduction and the 158s would be gone, so does that mean next Wednesday is the last chance to ride one on the Cambrian? Or will they keep some ticking over as backup? We still get plenty of 153s and 150s in west Wales!
tfw756rider
On Moderation
The plan has since changed to 197s taking over only the Cambrian Coast Line between Machynlleth/Dovey Junction and Pwllheli on Mon 19/8/26,
so between Shrewsbury and Aberystwyth - via Machynlleth/Dovey Junction - will remain 158s for a bit until... we're still trying to find out when.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
+
The 48 hour introduction @BenBracken mentions would surely be Saturday 17th and Sunday 18th, not starting Wednesday - and for Machynlleth to Pwlleli only. That is if the switch over time is needed ?.
GaryNeville
On Moderation
Nobody knows yet. Whilst looking pretty solid, it could be jeoprdised yet. It relies on CAF getting the regular fleet fully repaired to release Cambrian 197's. they only need 3 per day for the cambrian coast line to go over, and even that is touch and go.
It is not. 2 197's will be taken to Pwllheli Sunday ready for Monday morning. Then 1 will come off depot at Machynlleth, the coast will then be self sustaining from there as they will terminate at machynlleth and work the next service back to Pwllheli.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Any 48-hour plan is old ("earlier" refers to weeks ago) - the current plan is, as you quoted me saying (first paragraph):
...but as you can see from the second paragraph, there's still something we're trying to find out!
I think it's pretty safe to say, considering that this is a TfW project, that it's not the last we'll see of the 158s on the Pwllheli line.
Things have improved marginally at TfW in the last few weeks. Apparently some 150's and 153's have been reinstated which helps. In addition some of the stored 197's are Spare and have not got faults. This is in stark contrast to a few weeks ago. Whilst some Valley line services have been cancelled all day due to Class 398 withdrawal, it has been a while since 197 operated diagrams have been cancelled all day. While short forming is still happening particularly after unit failures things are not as bad as they were. Time will tell if there are enough units for Pwllheli line but persuamably training trains at Machynlleth will no longer be needed.
Is there any engineering work planned on the Cambrian and/or any other TfW served routes in/out of Shrewsbury in the next few weeks? I ask because Realtime Trains appears to be showing many (in some cases all) of the through workings between Aberystwyth and Birmingham to be STPed to start/terminate at Shrewsbury instead of Birmingham between 24th Oct and mid-November. Are they trying to catch-up on the plan they announced earlier this year (which had the first 8 class 197 diagrams in service on the Cambrian in September, then stepping up to 12 Cambrian 197 diagrams in October (and starting hand back of the 158s to Angel) before reaching the full 18 class 197 diagrams (with 158s reduced to zero) in Feb 2027?
That doesn't seem to tie up with an FOI release from 2025 though, which showed all 24 TfW class 158s to be leased until 30/04/2027 (yes, I know two of them were subsequently written off due to the Talerddig collision), in which case TfW probably aren't under any obligation to release any 158s before April (although it is obviously prudent to start phasing them out ahead of time, rather than depending on a big bang switch to 197s), unless there is a sub-lease agreement in place to cascade some earlier?
At least 3-4 197's have been at Machynlleth/Pwllheli/Shrewsbury for training of Cambrian crews anyway. So having 3 for service and 2 spares isn't stretching the fleet too far. Mainline won't really be affected by these introductions as they aren't coming out of the pool of in service 197s.
It will mean those 3 158's freed up will concentrate of Birmingham capacity.
This week appears to have a 3 car 197 booked on Birmingham services., meaning that can go back to where it's supposed to be.
It will mean those 3 158's freed up will concentrate of Birmingham capacity.
This week appears to have a 3 car 197 booked on Birmingham services., meaning that can go back to where it's supposed to be.
I think its pretty clear and obvious to see that plans regularly change. Second guessing TFW's plans really isn't worth the time and energy.
Mainline421
Member
Possibly, but it's interesting how according to this thread possibilities vary from all 158s being gone from Aber services in weeks, to spring 2027.
Either way, I hope they stick around for a while. As 'regional' style trains designed for longer journeys, they're actually very well suited to the route from a passenger's perspective
Its all tied into the wider fleet cascades, getting 398s into service and 231s pnto the mainline. That will relieve the pressure on fleet availability.
If TFW had any sense they would at least keep some 158s, as even with the 197s where they need to be capacity on certain routes is still stretched and they are still seeing decent growth on the network.
Thanks
childwallblues
Established Member
2 cars trains on Liverpool to Llanduno services are leading to overcrowding.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
197036 is now on the Cambrian for the first time, the 17th (to my knowledge) 197 that has been on it.
Tue 13/10/26:
197035 Machynlleth new shed
197039 and 197036 Machynlleth old shed
197037 Pwllheli siding (thanks to someone I know)
These are the 17 197s I've seen on the Cambrian (the most recent things I've see them do on it):
Stabled at the Machynlleth depot complex 2026:
197036
TfW daytime testing/training 2025/2026:
197024/029/030/035/037/039
TfW night-time testing/training 2026:
197022/027
ROG/CAF night-time testing/ETCS mileage accumulation (2022+)2025/2026:
(197003+)025/032/038/040/041
ROG/CAF daytime testing/ETCS mileage accumulation 2024:
197031/033
Will be interesting to see if any of the remaining 4 of the 21 compatible 197s (197023/026/028/034) come on on Sun 18/10/26.
Tue 13/10/26:
197035 Machynlleth new shed
197039 and 197036 Machynlleth old shed
197037 Pwllheli siding (thanks to someone I know)
These are the 17 197s I've seen on the Cambrian (the most recent things I've see them do on it):
Stabled at the Machynlleth depot complex 2026:
197036
TfW daytime testing/training 2025/2026:
197024/029/030/035/037/039
TfW night-time testing/training 2026:
197022/027
ROG/CAF night-time testing/ETCS mileage accumulation (2022+)2025/2026:
(197003+)025/032/038/040/041
ROG/CAF daytime testing/ETCS mileage accumulation 2024:
197031/033
Will be interesting to see if any of the remaining 4 of the 21 compatible 197s (197023/026/028/034) come on on Sun 18/10/26.
BenBracken
Member
I can’t imagine TfW hanging onto 158s getting mouldy in Mach and other depots for long, just in case of a 197 failure, they will want to hand them back to the leasing company sharpish. Logically they could send them down to south and west Wales, shift on some of the remaining 150s and give passengers a more comfortable train to use on those diagrams, but I’m guessing there’s issues with driver tickets etc for them being expired?
Keeping any 158s at Mach also means retaining all operational and maintenance competences and their associated assessments in parallel with competence and assessments for 197s.
I guess there will also be specific parts and materials held at Mach?
So, no, I can’t see 158s staying longer than necessary.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Your right. But. Of course then Machynlleth is going to have to cope with a mixed fleet for many months I fear.
It will soon be obvious if problems are going to come home to roost....
Look at how Derby Etches Park is sinking under a mixed fleet of 222s and 810s).
Maybe, just maybe, there is somewhere else the 158s could be maintained. Then the problem will be when Machynlleth and Chester have to look after ALL 197s rather than some of the 197s being sidelined.
BenBracken
Member
It would be interesting to know what happened elsewhere on the TfW network after 197 introduction and if this gives any clues as to what happens next. They were a replacement for 175s on west Wales to Manchester services, which were gone by the time the 197s started and there was a messy interlude with 150s/153s, but what happened to the non-Cambrian 158s when 197s took over?
craigybagel
Established Member
- Joined
- 25 Oct 2012
- Messages
- 5,830
When the 197s start taking over the Cambrian services, the 158s will be moved out of Machnylleth to another location within the TfW network before they move on to another TOC. At least that is the current plan anyway.
BillStampy
Established Member
I'm sure the Maesteg, Ebbw Vale and Cheltenham routes wouldn't complain about having some nice trains for a while before we get our 231s
Just a suggestion
BenBracken
Member
Interesting that the Pwllheli line gets the new trains first over Aberystwyth. I’d always thought that branch carried more passengers and its status as a university town creates more demand?