Matthew5689
Member
Couldn't agree more with this. If the 1Lxxs were consistently 6-8/9 cars it would be less of an issue but off peak they're definitely not and that's made worse with regular failures and subsequent short forms of late
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
SWR timetable refresh - consultation in Autumn 2026
- Thread starter chrisp37
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
devon_belle
Member
I think the only viable station for skipping by SWR is Boxhill & Westhumble, saving a couple of minutes only. Having 1tph of each Southern and SWR calling would make the most sense, like it was pre-covid. Ashtead and Leatherhead have far too much demand for SWR trains compared to the slow Southern train.
If Southern is returned to pre-covid timetable (regrettably unlikely in my view) then the service may be more attractive and Ashtead could be skipped by SWR, provided there's a good connection at Epsom. But I still doubt it's worth it. Unfortunately for Southern, SWR seems to be the GBR poster child of the area, so we will be waiting even longer for any attention!
I don't see the value in skip stopping Boxhill. It is an increasingly important leisure destination, and a driver of discretionary off peak / weekend demand. Even with the current poor service it manages 150K passengers a year, and passenger volumes are up 27% vs pre covid. A simple clockface timetable, reasonably frequent service, and consistent stopping pattern is arguably far more useful for "average" passengers.
Stations like Longcross and Sunnymeads have a better service than Boxhill from SWR, yet have less usage. It would be better if both stations just saw an hourly service, there’s no need for 2tph
Goldfish62
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 14 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 13,116
I certainly agree about Longcross, especially as it has no service after around 21:00. It's an odd one - when trains are running slightly late towards Reading stations much busier than Longcross are routinely skipped, but never Longcross itself.
devon_belle
Member
I tend to agree. But the service from Dorking is very slow compared to similar towns at comparable distances from London. The Dorking MP is campaigning quite hard for an express service, which will almost certainly never happen (more chance on the Southern line in my view), so saving 2-3 mins by skipping Boxhill may be a boon which the powers at be offer.
He is the MP for Boxhill & Westhumble as well though.
This has changed recently, I’ve seen them cancel the longcross stop and others but keep Ascot, Bracknell and Wokingham in, which makes a lot more sense.
devon_belle
Member
And Holmwood, but no peep about Saturday evening or Sunday services, or peak extras returning, or speeding up journey times!
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 34,227
It seemed adequate at the time the hourly service started, but I guess they weren’t exactly planning on an embankment drying out so much.
Goldfish62
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 14 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 13,116
It's always Ascot, Bracknell and Wokingham that have been prioritised, sensibly of course. I was meaning Martins Heron, Winnersh, Winnersh Triangle and Earley, all of which are significantly busier than Longcross.
In the other direction Richmond, Clapham Junction and Vauxhall often get the chop, but not Longcross!
Yes l heard today speed restrictions again are to be imposed because of dried out trackbed like last year. Probably fewer services as well think they were halved last summer.
DelW
Established Member
- Joined
- 15 Jan 2015
- Messages
- 5,934
(My bold): except for morning and early afternoon hours when one of those trains terminates at Haslemere. And the two services that do get to Portsmouth arrive less than 15 minutes apart.
It seems to me to be the worst timetable on the line since the early days of Stagecoach SWT. At least their 3tph left Waterloo at 20/20/20 not at 15/15/30 too.
You can add Sunningdale to that list. Don't tell me, some time ago I was returning after a local walk and doing Sunningdale to Martins Heron. There was some sort of delay at Staines. So what do they do - skip Sunningdale. Martins Heron and the parishes but stop at Longcross! Of course on the departure board it just shows cancelled as you see it pass through non-stop. All those skipped stations have significant traffic and little in the way of alternatives to get you to your destination.
I think they have changed the skip-stopping policy recently for the Reading route, as I've seen Longcross removed more instead of the stations with better patronage. I think someone must have had a word with control...
Goldfish62
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 14 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 13,116
Fingers crossed!
I definitely agree that the Weymouths should not have any additional stops added, both on grounds of speed and capacity. In an ideal world, the solution would be to run a twice-hourly crack express* to Weymouth, with separate Poole-semi fasts running directly behind them picking up the calls at CLJ, Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester and Soton Airport. The revised pre-Covid proposal which saw the xx05 ex Waterloo divide at Southampton Central with the front portion running non-stop to Bournemouth and the rear portion picking up the local stations is the best I think you can get without any additional infrastructure upgrades or compromises to the Waterloo - Weymouth frequency. The only downside of that proposal was that New Milton, Christchurch and Pokesdown lost their direct trains to stations west of Poole, but I think that is one of those compromises you have to make to allow for a better express service to Southampton, Bournemouth, Poole and Weymouth.
Without any infrastructure upgrades or frequency increases, I think the best you can do to maximise capacity north of Winchester is reinstate the xx39 from Waterloo to Southampton Central (a must!), max out train lengths to 9 car on the Salisbury/Exeter services, and potentially make the CLJ, Woking and Basingstoke calls in the Weymouth services pick-up/set-down only to prevent these being filled up with short hoppers from Waterloo.
*I say crack express, but in today’s world, calls at Woking and Basingstoke at the very least would probably need to be maintained for demand and connectivity purposes.
Last edited:
Kite159
Veteran Member
What a lot of rubbish. Those 10 coach trains have plenty of space offpeak between Basingstoke & London, just because you want a slightly faster journey on a congested network.
Okay, that particular suggestion may have been a bit OTT, but the point remains that Woking to Basingstoke needs an increase in train capacity on what we have today. I’m sure that can be achieved for now by reintroducing the Waterloo to Southampton stopper and lengthening the West of England trains to 9 car all day. That gives 4tph of 8-9 car trains plus the 2 Basingstoke stoppers.
Making all Weymouth trains stop at both Woking and Basingstoke would not be very popular due to the increase in journey time from Dorset, unless a way can be found of speeding up the journey further down the line. The current arrangement of alternating between those two stations I think works fine, at least until infrastructure improvements allow more trains to run along the SWML.
Last edited:
vikingdriver
Member
- Joined
- 11 Mar 2010
- Messages
- 338
They can barely muster 2/3 carriages on the West of England services to Waterloo, let alone 9 throughout the day!
Kite159
Veteran Member
.
And what a waste of diesel having 9 coach trains all day long between Salisbury & Waterloo to cater for the demand between Basingstoke & Waterloo due to the 10 coach electric trains skip-stopping.
Stopping at both stations won't add much time, it's not like they are suggesting stopping the Weymouth trains at Fleet, Farnborough & Surbiton etc
And what a waste of diesel having 9 coach trains all day long between Salisbury & Waterloo to cater for the demand between Basingstoke & Waterloo due to the 10 coach electric trains skip-stopping.
When the Poole stoppers did run before Covid they didn't call at Woking. The current Woking to Basingstoke service is what is has been for many years.
SWRtrainfan
Member
No they called at Clapham and then Farnborough but it was pick up only there (as per all of SWT/SWR's other long distance services that called there).
Snow1964
Established Member
There is probably a strong case for completely reconfiguring the Somerset rounders (especially with Wellington, and potentially Cullompton and Somerton / Langport new stations).
Might be better as a C shaped loop from Reading or Basingstoke out via Salisbury, Yeovil, Exeter, Taunton, Westbury to Salisbury. That links properly (and I mean cross platform) to a fast London train. Proper use of the island platforms at Westbury or Salisbury on a passenger focused basis for ease of connection rather than starting from operational simplicity but enforcing a footbridge/subway change
So, the latest DfT figures include 2 Pompey Direct services and 1 Alton line service in the top 10 most crowded services yet SWR management deny there is a need to strengthen services. These services are booked 10x444, 10x444 and 12x450 so maximum formations.
Snow1964
Established Member
There is actually 4 (not 3) in top 10 most crowded. There is an evening train to Basingstoke too.
But there are 4 ways to look at fixing very busy trains,
1) lengthen it (not practical if already at max length)
2) use higher density stock (that won't go down well replacing 444s)
3) skip some busy pick up stops, forcing some to use different train
4) add alternative train few minutes before, because clearly popular time
I suspect the answer is some combination of 3 & 4 and is a question of is timetable maximised (all trains at full length in 15-30 minutes before) that could be alternative. It's also a case of maximising headway (upto a practical limit that allows firebreaks to cover problems)
So those busiest trains need an alternative that gets them to work by same time, or home not much later and need to look at that, just the busy trains in isolation.
Remember the 2017 tender award was announced as having 10,000 extra seats. There must have been a plan to fit them in. About the only change is the 442s have been replaced by similar number of 458/4 vehicles
Big Jumby 74
Established Member
My bold. A polite reminder that this is the exact same scenario that the previous SW incumbent was faced with on the Pompey direct, but got slated for trying to deal with the issue by increasing certain over crowded services to the true maximum of 12 car 450. One should be careful what one wishes for!
All valid points, but this was effectively the situation years ago.
That was achieved of course largely by the addition of an extra fleet type, 442 initially, then replaced by 458. Parts of the 2017 proposed timetable increase, were based around faster dwell times (701's with ABDO - Automatic braking, Driver Operated - doors) AFAIR, and also some other initiatives (the detail escapes me now) that seemingly was over ambitious?
The 2007 plan, including the removal of 442 and reinstatement of 458 (so essentially the same number of fleet types overall), represented an increase of over 14,000 additional seats, of which over 3,500 were on peak time services in to/out of Waterloo.
Snow1964
Established Member
Strangely the August 2017 Press release says rather more seats
Major improvements for passengers on the way as South Western Railway begins operations
www.southwesternrailway.com
Maybe that was based on introducing a revised timetable, but so far that has not been introduced, and only now are they consulting on it about 7 years late.
I think the easiest way to compare this is arrivals into Waterloo:
6am - 7am was 2 now 1
7am - 8am was 5 now 4
8am - 9am was 6 now 5
9am - 10am was 4 now 4
3 trains, 2,100+ seats less per morning just on the Pompey Direct.
It’s actually worse than that because previously 3 trains skipped Woking, now it’s just one, so pulling passengers onto Pompey Direct trains which previously used something different.
It’s also worth noting that the proposed timetable changes would have put an additional service into Waterloo between 0645-0715.
Same in the evening:
4pm - 5pm was 4 now 3
5pm - 6pm was 5 now 4
6pm - 7pm was 5 now 4
7pm - 8pm was 4 now 4
Again, another 3 services missing, again a further proposal for a 6th service in one hour. Previously 5 services skipped Woking, now just 3.
Part of the issue is that SWR are not clear as to what market each Pompey Direct service is trying to serve. Fast services and stopping services used to be quite defined, now too many are semi-fast.
Taking the inclusion of Godalming on every service. Fine when a service is carrying fresh air, but now services arrive already full, squeeze a few more on, then trundle off to Guildford and Woking to take extra passengers again.
It’s why one service each way used to be non-stop Haslemere-Waterloo, as it was full and partially standing on leaving Haslemere (not that I vote for its re-introduction).
I’m under no illusion that the Pompey Direct is special, this problem exists all over the network. My big concern is that by the time you introduce the 701/5s, bring the suburban service back to pre-Covid levels, you won’t have any spare stock to displace, say, a 8x450 off an Alton, Basingstoke or Haslemere service onto a longer distance service.
6am - 7am was 2 now 1
7am - 8am was 5 now 4
8am - 9am was 6 now 5
9am - 10am was 4 now 4
3 trains, 2,100+ seats less per morning just on the Pompey Direct.
It’s actually worse than that because previously 3 trains skipped Woking, now it’s just one, so pulling passengers onto Pompey Direct trains which previously used something different.
It’s also worth noting that the proposed timetable changes would have put an additional service into Waterloo between 0645-0715.
Same in the evening:
4pm - 5pm was 4 now 3
5pm - 6pm was 5 now 4
6pm - 7pm was 5 now 4
7pm - 8pm was 4 now 4
Again, another 3 services missing, again a further proposal for a 6th service in one hour. Previously 5 services skipped Woking, now just 3.
Part of the issue is that SWR are not clear as to what market each Pompey Direct service is trying to serve. Fast services and stopping services used to be quite defined, now too many are semi-fast.
Taking the inclusion of Godalming on every service. Fine when a service is carrying fresh air, but now services arrive already full, squeeze a few more on, then trundle off to Guildford and Woking to take extra passengers again.
It’s why one service each way used to be non-stop Haslemere-Waterloo, as it was full and partially standing on leaving Haslemere (not that I vote for its re-introduction).
I’m under no illusion that the Pompey Direct is special, this problem exists all over the network. My big concern is that by the time you introduce the 701/5s, bring the suburban service back to pre-Covid levels, you won’t have any spare stock to displace, say, a 8x450 off an Alton, Basingstoke or Haslemere service onto a longer distance service.