Aslef threaten Scotrail strike over Driver sickie!

[9K43]

If Scot Rail want a fight with ASLEF, they will come off the worst.
Same railway bully boy tac tics, that came in when bus drivers came managers after railway privatisation.No driver no train, no train no money.
Scot Rail will have to learn , you do not mess with ASLEF.
That comes from 30 years of service, with drivers.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

If Scot Rail want a fight with ASLEF, they will come off the worst.
Same railway bully boy tac tics, that came in when bus drivers came managers after railway privatisation.No driver no train, no train no money.
Scot Rail will have to learn , you do not mess with ASLEF.
That comes from 30 years of service, with drivers.

I am a Union man, always will be regardless of what people say..

HOWEVER

ASLE&F will shaft every other grade to gain a few pence more, yes they are there for the drivers but they do tend to forget that Drivers are only 1 part of a very large system, the more ASLE&F push for what they want (even more than the RMT on most occasions) the more the government and TOC's/FOC's will look at automated systems, it won't affect this generation (like myself) but it will the next. I do not begrudge anyone who is willing to fight for what they feel is fair (on this everyone has differing opinions) but if ASLE&F actually worked with other unions more, more would be benefitted and alot less hostility between the unions would make everything alot better (IMHO of course).

 

[michael769]

Aslef have announced a strike ballot: http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/131915/aslef_to_ballot_scots_over_demoted_driver/

 

[phil8715]

TRAIN driver who pulled a sickie to watch Rangers in Germany was rumbled when bosses rang him and heard a foreign ring tone.
Union bosses have threatened a strike after James Foster was demoted following his jaunt to Hamburg.

The 47-year-old had told bosses he was ill. But he was caught when ScotRail chiefs called him to check on his condition — and his mobile phone rang with a tone revealing he was abroad.

His employers asked him to come in to explain his absence, but he claimed he was too ill so would return the next day.

When he arrived at work bosses confronted him and he admitted he'd been at last November's friendly, which Rangers lost 2-1.

He was initially sacked, but after an appeal the dad-of-two was reinstated in a lower position — with his salary cut from £37,732 to £21,000. Bosses at train drivers union ASLEF have warned they could strike over his demotion. But last night their threat was slammed as an "over-reaction". Tory Transport spokesman Alex Johnstone said: "The employee is lucky to still have a job at all. The fact they are willing to strike is simply ludicrous."

Robert Samson, of consumer group Passenger Focus, added: "We urge all parties to find a solution."

ASLEF's Scottish secretary Kevin Lindsay said on Twitter members will meet next week to discuss the "draconian" punishment. Foster, who lives with wife Myra, 44, and kids Samantha, 23, and Martin, 18, in Bellshill, Lanarkshire, refused to comment. A ScotRail spokesman said: "It is an internal disciplinary matter". ASLEF refused to comment

I would sack him just because he's a Rangers fan! Seriously it a was a bit harsh sacking him.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[GB]

That statement is pretty much a load of bollox imo:roll:

 

[michael769]

I would sack him just because he's a Rangers fan! Seriously it a was a bit harsh sacking him.

We wasn't sacked.

 

[CosherB]

Aslef have announced a strike ballot: http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/131915/aslef_to_ballot_scots_over_demoted_driver/

That's ludicrous! The Sun was right after all!

 

[Nym]

I'm struggling to see how this is gross misconduct

Have you ever actually read an employment contract, it's defrauding the company, and is usually classed explicitly as gross midconduct.

 

[michael769]

Have you ever actually read an employment contract, it's defrauding the company, and is usually classed explicitly as gross midconduct.

I know lots of people do it and get away with it but....

Most employers would dismiss on the spot if they get enough evidence. And many would be involving the police.

 

[ainsworth74]

I can see why the driver did it and I can sympathise with him for doing it (heaven alone knows I'd be tempted to do the same) but he took sick leave when he wasn't sick so I think Scotrail have been pretty reasonable by keeping him on at all rather than just sacking him. As for ASLEF actually balloting for strike action seems like a massive overreaction, they guy was (assuming all the facts that have been presented are true) was guilty of misconduct and has been punished accordingly (and perhaps lightly as well).

 

[michael769]

I wonder if this is a little bit of sabre rattling. You know get a strike ballot to up the ante and encourage Scotrail to negotiate.

Seriously if ASLEF go out on this the press and politicians will crucify them. It does not matter what the true story is all commuters and the public will believe is that ASLEF and by extension all train drivers are supporting committing fraud and getting away with it. And ASLEF's statement I am afraid simply plays into that perception.

Unfortunately win or lose this will only cause long term damage to train drivers in a climate where there is growing appetite in Westminster to further attack union's ability to represent their members interests.

 

[313103]

More what you'd expect from the loony Bob Crow than ASLEF, though.

I was wondering how many messges would be put on before Bob Crow was mentioned. Only 5 not bad going Captain. Amazing how he gets blamed for everything.

 

[CosherB]

Actually, if ASLEF do go ahead with this, it could be a good thing. They can only lose such an obviously illogical stance and it could be the beginning of the end of the last bastion of destructive (to UK) excessive union power.

The only surprise is I thought it'd be Crow's ludicous RMT that would be the one to bring this paerticular house of cards tumbling down.

 

[Nonsense]

Aslef have announced a strike ballot: http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/131915/aslef_to_ballot_scots_over_demoted_driver/

And behind every private penny held in the railways, and by every paying passenger left standing in the cold, the question will be asked: "Can't these damned things drive themselves already"?

Necessity, as they say, is the mother of invention.

 

[ainsworth74]

Amazing how he gets blamed for everything.

I don't see anyone blaming him for this?

 

[CosherB]

And behind every private penny held in the railways, and by every paying passenger left standing in the cold, the question will be asked: "Can't these damned things drive themselves already"?

Necessity, as they say, is the mother of invention.

Spot on! Trains have to be the easiest transport system to automate - it's pretty much done already on HS lines. It WILL happen anyway, but sooner (maybe very soon) rather than later if this sort of nonsense persists.

 

[313103]

I don't see anyone blaming him for this?

Ok. I will admit that Captain Speaking didnt say as per the Queens English that Bob Crow is to blame. But i read more into Captain Speaking's message.

To say 'More of what i would expect from the loony Bob Crow then ASLEF though' and 'The only surprise is that id thought it would be Crow's ludicrous RMT that would be the one to bring this particular house of cards from tumbling down' is not blaming him, well i dont know what is?

Perhaps you would like to explain what these two comments actually mean then?

 

[BestWestern]

If we are to assume that the facts outlined in the earlier detailed post are correct, then those who feel that this man's actions were deserving of a sacking would do well to reconsider their position. You have applied for and been granted leave, a basic entitlement of most people's employment, not a luxury. You have made plans, bought tickets and spent a substantial sum of your own money on a foreign trip. You are then informed that your employer has decided - for reasons which are reportedly nothing more than spiteful tit-for-tat - that your leave has been cancelled, and you are now expected to lose everything that you have spent without any form of compensation, and come to work clean shaven and with a smile.... I don't think so!!

I would expect anybody with a backbone and an ounce of self respect to stand their ground in such a situation, I know I certainly would. This guy might have done better to have simply advised his employer that they were out of order, he would be sticking with his plans, and any disciplinary action following would result in him seeing them in court. As it was, the chances are that he probably didn't want to rock the boat, and took the easy option. Whichever, his employer were totally out of order and it was their actions which ultimately led to the situation, and the union have them bang to rights - assuming, once again, that the circumstances detailed are indeed correct. If that is the case, SR have dug a sizeable hole and they know better than to have done that. I would imagine this man will be back on the footplate rather soon.

 

[ainsworth74]

To say 'More of what i would expect from the loony Bob Crow then ASLEF though' and 'The only surprise is that id thought it would be Crow's ludicrous RMT that would be the one to bring this particular house of cards from tumbling down' is not blaming him, well i dont know what is?

Perhaps you would like to explain what these two comments actually mean then?

Well the first comment seems to mean what it says on the tin, that this sort of thing is more what you would expect from the RMT rather than ASLEF.

As for the second comment it's not my place to put words in Captain Speakings mouth.

 

[BestWestern]

Spot on! Trains have to be the easiest transport system to automate - it's pretty much done already on HS lines. It WILL happen anyway, but sooner (maybe very soon) rather than later if this sort of nonsense persists.

As we seem to have the usual, rather depressing CS attempts at winding up everybody else, on the subject of automation might I suggest that a train has considerably greater input by the guy up front than you will find in most commercial aeroplanes, and therefore perhaps we ought to be putting pilots out of a job first? Just think how much air fares could go down if every flight didn't carry six figures-worth of stripe-wearing prestige in the cockpit....

 

[michael769]

If we are to assume that the facts outlined in the earlier detailed post are correct,

If true he was created shamefully and where was his union when it happened? Perhaps if ASLEF had represented him and other affected by that behaviour at the time, they would have had a chance of having the moral high ground. Now they have set themselves up (and by extension their members) to be demonised in the press, and to provide ammunition for those elements of the current government who would like to see unions utterly destroyed.

And if it is true why is ASLEF not pointing that out in their statement? Surely they would not stand by and see the guy being painted as a lazy fraudster, if there was more to it?

Right or wrong they are handling it poorly - almost as if they actually want to destroy their members futures by accelerating the road towards driver less trains.

 

[Nonsense]

As we seem to have the usual, rather depressing CS attempts at winding up everybody else, on the subject of automation might I suggest that a train has considerably greater input by the guy up front than you will find in most commercial aeroplanes, and therefore perhaps we ought to be putting pilots out of a job first? Just think how much air fares could go down if every flight didn't carry six figures-worth of stripe-wearing prestige in the cockpit....

Difference being that a plane won't just roll to a halt and await assistance if something fails. Regardless, there are plenty of examples around the world to demonstrate that the barrier to planes without pilots, and trains without drivers, isn't technological.

 

[BestWestern]

Difference being that a plane won't just roll to a halt and await assistance if something fails. Regardless, there are plenty of examples around the world to demonstrate that the barrier to planes without pilots, and trains without drivers, isn't technological.

That's a very good point, whatever happens it'll be many years yet.

To the wider agrument here, I agree that there are many situations when unions have acted with the preverbial sledgehammer to wallop a peanut, but in this case - if things are as presented earlier - they are spot on. What has been reported is an appalling abuse of a company's workforce and totally unaccpetable.

 

[GB]

Spot on! Trains have to be the easiest transport system to automate.

Really? I'm not aware of any technology that can cope with the level of urban train services and if it was so easy why hasn't it been done?

A closed system like DLR or HS1 is one thing, the rest of the network is another thing entirely and I think what you have said is almost laughable coming from someone in an industry where automation runs supreme.

 

[BestWestern]

Really? I'm not aware of any technology that can cope with the level of urban train services and if it was so easy why hasn't it been done?

A closed system like DLR or HS1 is one thing, the rest of the network is another thing entirely and I think what you have said is almost laughable coming from someone in an industry where automation runs supreme.

Seconded.

 

[SS4]

There are many who think that because they aren't represented then nobody should be represented. These people would do well to remember that the Labour party was formed by the unions to give them the power to override management's drive for profit over the welfare of their workers. To reiterate, to get their voice heard they had to do it by going over management's heads.

This guy has a statutory right to annual leave and I'd imagine his case would be pretty solid, moreso if his contract of employment stated that days off in lieu could not be rescinded. But why let workers' rights get in the way of a good rant? :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Really? I'm not aware of any technology that can cope with the level of urban train services and if it was so easy why hasn't it been done?

A closed system like DLR or HS1 is one thing, the rest of the network is another thing entirely and I think what you have said is almost laughable coming from someone in an industry where automation runs supreme.

Thirded

 

[khib70]

If we are to assume that the facts outlined in the earlier detailed post are correct, then those who feel that this man's actions were deserving of a sacking would do well to reconsider their position. You have applied for and been granted leave, a basic entitlement of most people's employment, not a luxury. You have made plans, bought tickets and spent a substantial sum of your own money on a foreign trip. You are then informed that your employer has decided - for reasons which are reportedly nothing more than spiteful tit-for-tat - that your leave has been cancelled, and you are now expected to lose everything that you have spent without any form of compensation, and come to work clean shaven and with a smile.... I don't think so!!

I would expect anybody with a backbone and an ounce of self respect to stand their ground in such a situation, I know I certainly would. This guy might have done better to have simply advised his employer that they were out of order, he would be sticking with his plans, and any disciplinary action following would result in him seeing them in court. As it was, the chances are that he probably didn't want to rock the boat, and took the easy option. Whichever, his employer were totally out of order and it was their actions which ultimately led to the situation, and the union have them bang to rights - assuming, once again, that the circumstances detailed are indeed correct. If that is the case, SR have dug a sizeable hole and they know better than to have done that. I would imagine this man will be back on the footplate rather soon.

Whatever the circumstances regarding this individual's entitlement to leave, the basic facts are:

-He was rostered to work on a particular day
-He failed to appear and told his employer he was sick
-He wasn't
-He was disciplined, and sanctioned but not dismissed
- ASLEF think this justifies shutting down the railway system in Scotland

I would have expected to hear about this ludicrous scenario on a weekly basis circa 1979. In this day and age it's just another illustration of the RMT and ASLEF as the Jurassic face of industrial relations

 

[boing_uk]

Unfortunately, in law, the driver has still breached his contract and committed gross misconduct - and thus should have been dealt with by the due process. There is a legal right to annual leave; there isn't as yet a right to when it can be taken.

The correct legal remedy, if the lieu days had been booked as such, would have been to make a claim against his travel insurance with the cancellation of the leave given in writing to support the claim.

The other legal remedy would have been to complain in writing about the cancellation and of course make use of the Unions legal representation to claim back any losses incurred, if such losses were not covered by insurance.

While it may seem "morally right" to have done what they did, it was not the correct legal way of doing it and in taking the course of action they did, opened themselves up to gross misconduct and the penalties attached to that.

Sorry, but the fellow is lucky to still have the job they have.

 

[michael769]

What I still don't understand is why if employees were treated like that about lieu days did ASLEF not take action on that.

I find it hard to believe that they would stand by and allow that to happen.

 

[BestWestern]

Unfortunately, in law, the driver has still breached his contract and committed gross misconduct - and thus should have been dealt with by the due process.

The correct legal remedy, if the lieu days had been booked as such, would have been to make a claim against his travel insurance with the cancellation of the leave given in writing to support the claim.

The other legal remedy would have been to complain in writing about the cancellation and of course make use of the Unions legal representation to claim back any losses incurred, if such losses were not covered by insurance.

While it may seem "morally right" to have done what they did, it was not the correct legal way of doing it and in taking the course of action they did, opened themselves up to gross misconduct and the penalties attached to that.

Sorry, but the fellow is lucky to still have the job they have.

So, in your view, it is perfectly reasonable and totally acceptable for your employer to royally stitch you up, acting with absolutely no consideration whatsever toward it's workforce in order to point score in an ongoing dispute of it's own making - and you as the employee have a moral duty to do things the 'correct' way, having to claim from insurance policies and explore potentially long and arduous legal avenues, and swallowing the utter contempt shown by your employer who still expect your loyalty and faithful service despite you having been shat on from a great height?!

Remind me never to visit your planet!