Aslef threaten Scotrail strike over Driver sickie!

[HawkeyeTheNoo]

What the heck are ASLEF thinking about? No wonder there is so much anti union sentiment in this country when a strike is threatened over this!

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sco...ion-threaten-strike-over-football-sickie.html

A TRAIN driver who pulled a sickie to watch Rangers in Germany was rumbled when bosses rang him and heard a foreign ring tone.

Union bosses have threatened a strike after James Foster was demoted following his jaunt to Hamburg.
The 47-year-old had told bosses he was ill. But he was caught when ScotRail chiefs called him to check on his condition — and his mobile phone rang with a tone revealing he was abroad.
His employers asked him to come in to explain his absence, but he claimed he was too ill so would return the next day.
When he arrived at work bosses confronted him and he admitted he'd been at last November's friendly, which Rangers lost 2-1.
He was initially sacked, but after an appeal the dad-of-two was reinstated in a lower position — with his salary cut from £37,732 to £21,000. Bosses at train drivers union ASLEF have warned they could strike over his demotion. But last night their threat was slammed as an "over-reaction". Tory Transport spokesman Alex Johnstone said: "The employee is lucky to still have a job at all. The fact they are willing to strike is simply ludicrous."
Robert Samson, of consumer group Passenger Focus, added: "We urge all parties to find a solution."
ASLEF's Scottish secretary Kevin Lindsay said on Twitter members will meet next week to discuss the "draconian" punishment. Foster, who lives with wife Myra, 44, and kids Samantha, 23, and Martin, 18, in Bellshill, Lanarkshire, refused to comment. A ScotRail spokesman said: "It is an internal disciplinary matter". ASLEF refused to comment.

 

[Clip]

Cant view the link at work can you C&P it please?

 

[HawkeyeTheNoo]

TRAIN driver who pulled a sickie to watch Rangers in Germany was rumbled when bosses rang him and heard a foreign ring tone.
Union bosses have threatened a strike after James Foster was demoted following his jaunt to Hamburg.

The 47-year-old had told bosses he was ill. But he was caught when ScotRail chiefs called him to check on his condition — and his mobile phone rang with a tone revealing he was abroad.

His employers asked him to come in to explain his absence, but he claimed he was too ill so would return the next day.

When he arrived at work bosses confronted him and he admitted he'd been at last November's friendly, which Rangers lost 2-1.

He was initially sacked, but after an appeal the dad-of-two was reinstated in a lower position — with his salary cut from £37,732 to £21,000. Bosses at train drivers union ASLEF have warned they could strike over his demotion. But last night their threat was slammed as an "over-reaction". Tory Transport spokesman Alex Johnstone said: "The employee is lucky to still have a job at all. The fact they are willing to strike is simply ludicrous."

Robert Samson, of consumer group Passenger Focus, added: "We urge all parties to find a solution."

ASLEF's Scottish secretary Kevin Lindsay said on Twitter members will meet next week to discuss the "draconian" punishment. Foster, who lives with wife Myra, 44, and kids Samantha, 23, and Martin, 18, in Bellshill, Lanarkshire, refused to comment. A ScotRail spokesman said: "It is an internal disciplinary matter". ASLEF refused to comment

 

[Clip]

Hmm, blagging your ill when going away for a jaunt is classed as groos misconduct is it not and thus a sackable offence should all the facts bare this out. Im guessing him admitting it should be taken into account and thus demotion seems a fair result as he still has a job.

Its a tricky one all round really because as a company you are then setting the bar for what standards you allow your staff to adhere to - yours or theirs. And it will also set a precedent that should someone happen to do this again and get caught then this case will be what they will fall back on if they get sacked so SR in my view have made a rod for their own backs by not sticking with the sacking.

 

[CosherB]

Ludicrous to even consider going on strike when the company could have just sacked him (and probably should have, if only to set a precedent). The driver knew his 'sickie' was gross misconduct and therefore a sacking offence. On what possible grounds could a strike be justified?

More what you'd expect from the loony Bob Crow than ASLEF, though.

 

[Nym]

pretty much as above, pulled a sickie. Got caught, he's lucky to still have his job!

 

[LCC106]

Very lucky! Even if he had a previously unblemished record, the TOC would be in their right minds to argue a breakdown of trust. GM is GM in my book. However, there are employment indemnity firms out there who are very risk averse. I was once told by one that we couldn't dismiss a very senior member of staff who'd committed GM because she'd worked there too long. RIDICULOUS! As Clip says, a precedent has now been set to demote rather than dismiss.

 

[tbtc]

If that's true (bearing in mind the Sun isn't known for its fair handling of Union issues) then that's bonkers, the Union should be grown up enough to know which cases deserve their backing and which cases are clearly unjustifiable.

Amazed that FSR are keeping him in employment (and £21k is still a decent wage), tbh.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

This is the guy's twitter feed.

The offending tweet appears to be this one. Follow up tweets are here and here.

I wouldn't read much into The Sun's interpretation of events myself. There has been no call to ballot, and even the tweet which references that there might be a call can be dismissed as negotiations. Make your mind up when ASLEF put something out through official channels, rather than through one bloke who has 180 followers on Twitter, half of whom appear to be journalists who have followed him since this story broke hoping for another juicy quote.

 

[Ivo]

I don't know which I trust less, the newspaper or the union. Either way, this is ridiculous. Unless ASLEF can prove to an enormous degree that the facts are wrong (e.g. he is demoted to a £2 salary [not a typo]), then they need a reality check. Strike if there is no alternative on macro issues, not something petty like this - but even then they are unlikely to get any sympathy from me.

 

[Username]

As usual, there is slightly more to this story.

The staff member in question had apparently been granted lieu leave for the day in question and had made his plans accordingly.

Scotrail management then decided to unilaterally and without preamble, cancel all previously granted leave.

Why?

Scotrail drivers at that time had decided to withdraw from working overtime in protest of staffing levels. In short they felt the company relied too heavily on drivers working extra shifts to fulfil the rostered workload and they wanted the company to increase the complement of drivers to meet the demands of each depot. The company denied there was a problem so the simplest way to illustrate this reliance was for drivers to withdraw from working overtime.

The management response to this was to cancel all lieu leave despite the fact that an agreement exists which guarantees lieu leave for the first applicant(s) to apply (the exact number of guaranteed lieu days varies per depot and is based on complement size) .

So, having made his plans based on an agreement with the company, plans which involved being out of the country, the driver in question found himself looking at the decision of cancelling everything and swallowing the financial loss involved (flights, hotel etc) or "pulling a sickie" for the day.

In another instance, a driver had taken two lieu days to supplement a weeks annual leave. He was to be off or a week, come back to work for the Monday and Tuesday and then be rest day Wdenesday and Thursday so he took lieu leave for the Monday and Tuesday in order to have a longer uninterrupted break.
Whilst he was on annual leave his lieu days were cancelled without warning or notification so when he returned to work on the following Friday he learned that his lieu leave had been cancelled on the Monday and Tuesday and that he was being docked two days wages.

None of this may make a jot of difference to how people view the situation but at least people will be more aware of the circumstances.

 

[jopsuk]

That explanation, assuming it is true, rather makes more sense.

 

[Rhondda Rudie]

I agree that strike action in this case would be unjustified.However,the OP obviously moves in different circles to me as I don't sense a rise in anti union sentiment in this country.Indeed,opinion polls conducted in the run up to the recent public sector pension strike showed 61% backed the position of the unions despite a non stop propaganda blitz from the right wing press.

I also find it difficult to take seriously expressions of indignation from The Sun.The paper and its stablemates have committed a long list of disgraceful acts which make a train driver taking a sickie pale into insignificance.Just ask the people of Merseyside or Milly Dowler's parents.

 

[CosherB]

despite a non stop propaganda blitz from the right wing press.

That wasn't my perception! I was shouting at the telly at the constant flow of lefty bilge from the BBC!

 

[Rhondda Rudie]

That wasn't my perception! I was shouting at the telly at the constant flow of lefty bilge from the BBC!

Correct me if I'm wrong but the BBC is a broadcast organisation.I'm referring to the printed media.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As usual, there is slightly more to this story.

The staff member in question had apparently been granted lieu leave for the day in question and had made his plans accordingly.

Scotrail management then decided to unilaterally and without preamble, cancel all previously granted leave.

Why?

Scotrail drivers at that time had decided to withdraw from working overtime in protest of staffing levels. In short they felt the company relied too heavily on drivers working extra shifts to fulfil the rostered workload and they wanted the company to increase the complement of drivers to meet the demands of each depot. The company denied there was a problem so the simplest way to illustrate this reliance was for drivers to withdraw from working overtime.

The management response to this was to cancel all lieu leave despite the fact that an agreement exists which guarantees lieu leave for the first applicant(s) to apply (the exact number of guaranteed lieu days varies per depot and is based on complement size) .

So, having made his plans based on an agreement with the company, plans which involved being out of the country, the driver in question found himself looking at the decision of cancelling everything and swallowing the financial loss involved (flights, hotel etc) or "pulling a sickie" for the day.

In another instance, a driver had taken two lieu days to supplement a weeks annual leave. He was to be off or a week, come back to work for the Monday and Tuesday and then be rest day Wdenesday and Thursday so he took lieu leave for the Monday and Tuesday in order to have a longer uninterrupted break.
Whilst he was on annual leave his lieu days were cancelled without warning or notification so when he returned to work on the following Friday he learned that his lieu leave had been cancelled on the Monday and Tuesday and that he was being docked two days wages.

None of this may make a jot of difference to how people view the situation but at least people will be more aware of the circumstances.

Many thanks for that,a detailed account of what actually happened.Might have known The Sun wouldn't report the full story.

 

[CosherB]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the BBC is a broadcast organisation.I'm referring to the printed media.

The BBC isn't 'media' as well? Well blow me down!

It is a leftie (run by former arts graduates, so champagne socialists) organisation that is supposed to be a politically-neatural media organ.

The political leaning of the print media will depend on whether you read the Guardian or the Torygraph.

 

[Rhondda Rudie]

The BBC isn't 'media'? Well blow me down!

It is a leftie (run by former arts graduates, so champagne socialists) organisation that is supposed to be a politically-neatural media organ.

The political leaning of the print media will depend on whether you read the Guardian or the Torygraph.

Of course the BBC is "media",broadcast "media".

Your lack of attention to detail is somewhat worrying Captain.Hope you pay more attention when you're walking around your plane before departure.

 

[90019]

Your lack of attention to detail is somewhat worrying Captain.Hope you pay more attention when you're walking around your plane before departure.

Please kindly grow up, or take your bickering elsewhere.


As to the subject of the thread, I'm not sure about it, there seems to be faults on both sides. However, I think in this case, it's the employee that's more in the wrong.

 

[CosherB]

Of course the BBC is "media",broadcast "media".Your lack of attention to detail is somewhat worrying Captain.Hope you pay more attention when you're walking around your plane before departure.

You need have no worries on that score. Nothing will kill you faster than an aeroplane you take for granted. Detail is my middle name, which is why in 35 years of sometimes hairy flying I've never so much as scratched an aeroplane.

If I really did suffer lack of attention to detail, I wouldn't be here any more.

Media is media, RR. Print or broadcast.

 

[Clip]

I agree that strike action in this case would be unjustified.However,the OP obviously moves in different circles to me as I don't sense a rise in anti union sentiment in this country.Indeed,opinion polls conducted in the run up to the recent public sector pension strike showed 61% backed the position of the unions despite a non stop propaganda blitz from the right wing press.

I also find it difficult to take seriously expressions of indignation from The Sun.The paper and its stablemates have committed a long list of disgraceful acts which make a train driver taking a sickie pale into insignificance.Just ask the people of Merseyside or Milly Dowler's parents.

whatever any form of media and its staff have done bare no relation to this instance. This situation is regarding employment and contract law - nothing more nothing less. The explanation of more facts above make the picture a little bit clearer from both sides and if you think that the sun and its stablemates shouldnt report on this then why do the left sided media not report simliar with 'facts'.. also what opinion polls are these you talk about? Source please.


And with regards to the Milly Dowler situation it was revealed by both the Met and a follow up in the Guardian who broke that story that this was indeed a false accusation against the NOTW in that the met never said they had deleted them and it was more probable the Mobile providers system automatically deleting them after a certain period of time.

 

[SS4]

As usual, there is slightly more to this story.

The staff member in question had apparently been granted lieu leave for the day in question and had made his plans accordingly.

Scotrail management then decided to unilaterally and without preamble, cancel all previously granted leave.

Why?

Scotrail drivers at that time had decided to withdraw from working overtime in protest of staffing levels. In short they felt the company relied too heavily on drivers working extra shifts to fulfil the rostered workload and they wanted the company to increase the complement of drivers to meet the demands of each depot. The company denied there was a problem so the simplest way to illustrate this reliance was for drivers to withdraw from working overtime.

The management response to this was to cancel all lieu leave despite the fact that an agreement exists which guarantees lieu leave for the first applicant(s) to apply (the exact number of guaranteed lieu days varies per depot and is based on complement size) .

So, having made his plans based on an agreement with the company, plans which involved being out of the country, the driver in question found himself looking at the decision of cancelling everything and swallowing the financial loss involved (flights, hotel etc) or "pulling a sickie" for the day.

In another instance, a driver had taken two lieu days to supplement a weeks annual leave. He was to be off or a week, come back to work for the Monday and Tuesday and then be rest day Wdenesday and Thursday so he took lieu leave for the Monday and Tuesday in order to have a longer uninterrupted break.
Whilst he was on annual leave his lieu days were cancelled without warning or notification so when he returned to work on the following Friday he learned that his lieu leave had been cancelled on the Monday and Tuesday and that he was being docked two days wages.

None of this may make a jot of difference to how people view the situation but at least people will be more aware of the circumstances.

If the sun was known for being reputable then why do I trust the poster I've quoted more? It could well be selection bias I admit but the Sun disgraces the star of the same name!

This post makes an awful lot of sense and strange how it's not been reported. You'd think the ubiquitous left-wing media would be all over it :roll:

 

[jopsuk]

it was more probable the Mobile providers system automatically deleting them after a certain period of time.

Except that it appears that a number deleted at once, some before the usual auto-delete time...

 

[Legzr1]

Nice to see the usual suspects jumping in with cries of 'loony leftism' before the facts become apparent (thanks to the poster for putting people in the picture)

Good show.

I don't understand why members on here seem so damned keen to jump in without thinking that perhaps The Sun doesn't get everything right :roll:

How nice of FSR to cancel all leave at the drop of a hat.


Generally,Aslef don't go diving in without reason.

 

[CarterUSM]

The story was in the Scottish Daily Mail yesterday also.

 

[SS4]

The story was in the Scottish Daily Mail yesterday also.

Presumably with the same accusations of the loony left defending the indefensible

 

[CarterUSM]

Presumably with the same accusations of the loony left defending the indefensible

Yeah, pretty much! There's an avenue to go down before a ballot is called, and as Username points out, this really isn't such a black and white situation here. We'll see what happens in a week or so.

 

[CosherB]

Presumably with the same accusations of the loony left defending the indefensible

Well, they do have 'previous'.

 

[E16 Cyclist]

I'm struggling to see how this is gross misconduct, all this person seems to have done is what thousands of people do everyday and take a sickie (and i'm sure none of those would be expected to take a £20,000 drop in salary) whether thats right or not is a different arguement.

Surely common sense should have prevailed here, had the driver been given a warning either formal or otherwise it would have allowed the company to maintain discipline and wouldn't have given aslef much to complain about but by being heavy handed the company have created this situation.

 

[GB]

I'm struggling to see how this is gross misconduct, all this person seems to have done is what thousands of people do everyday and take a sickie (and i'm sure none of those would be expected to take a £20,000 drop in salary) whether thats right or not is a different arguement.

Sick leave is ment to be for sick people, simple really in that regard. Abusing the system is gross misconduct and grounds for dismissal in most companies.

However since the other side has been posted I have to say I would do the exact same thing in this drivers situation if I had paid out my own money.

 

[Jock]

Ludicrous to even consider going on strike when the company could have just sacked him (and probably should have, if only to set a precedent). The driver knew his 'sickie' was gross misconduct and therefore a sacking offence. On what possible grounds could a strike be justified?

More what you'd expect from the loony Bob Crow than ASLEF, though.

Oh I did wonder how long it would take for someone to mention Bob Crow in a thread that is completely unrelated to the man himself or the union he represents... 6 posts must be a record