FCC/Southern/Southeastern, Franchise Merger

[Bedpan]

The irony is that the existing Thameslink route used to be run by GoVia, and so was Southern so it would have made sense to merge them then.

What I would do in future is farm off some of the Southern routes not associated with Thameslink to South Eastern, rename South Eastern as Southern (as it was once all part of the BR Southern Region). This might make South Eastern too big, so I would then bring back the WAGN franchise (or at least the West Anglia part) and merge that with the North Kent services currently run by South Eastern to form a new franchise, which would be known as West Anglia North Kent. Passengers living in that area could then be known as West Anglia North Kenters or for short, .......

 

[mister-sparky]

The irony is that the existing Thameslink route used to be run by GoVia, and so was Southern so it would have made sense to merge them then.

What I would do in future is farm off some of the Southern routes not associated with Thameslink to South Eastern, rename South Eastern as Southern (as it was once all part of the BR Southern Region). This might make South Eastern too big, so I would then bring back the WAGN franchise (or at least the West Anglia part) and merge that with the North Kent services currently run by South Eastern to form a new franchise, which would be known as West Anglia North Kent. Passengers living in that area could then be known as West Anglia North Kenters or for short, .......

with a gap with nxea and c2c in the middle? no.

 

[jon0844]

I suggest re-reading!

 

[mister-sparky]

I suggest re-reading!

between the west anglia routes, and the north kent routes are routes by nxea and c2c....

 

[Bedpan]

Maybe read it again in the morning then.

 

[ert47]

What I would do in future is farm off some of the Southern routes not associated with Thameslink to South Eastern, rename South Eastern as Southern (as it was once all part of the BR Southern Region). This might make South Eastern too big, so I would then bring back the WAGN franchise (or at least the West Anglia part) and merge that with the North Kent services currently run by South Eastern to form a new franchise, which would be known as West Anglia North Kent. Passengers living in that area could then be known as West Anglia North Kenters or for short, .......

I can't.

 

[Aictos]

The irony is that the existing Thameslink route used to be run by GoVia, and so was Southern so it would have made sense to merge them then.

What I would do in future is farm off some of the Southern routes not associated with Thameslink to South Eastern, rename South Eastern as Southern (as it was once all part of the BR Southern Region). This might make South Eastern too big, so I would then bring back the WAGN franchise (or at least the West Anglia part) and merge that with the North Kent services currently run by South Eastern to form a new franchise, which would be known as West Anglia North Kent. Passengers living in that area could then be known as West Anglia North Kenters or for short, .......

I like that, West Anglia North Kent.....

 

[jopsuk]

The irony is that the existing Thameslink route used to be run by GoVia, and so was Southern so it would have made sense to merge them then.

What I would do in future is farm off some of the Southern routes not associated with Thameslink to South Eastern, rename South Eastern as Southern (as it was once all part of the BR Southern Region). This might make South Eastern too big, so I would then bring back the WAGN franchise (or at least the West Anglia part) and merge that with the North Kent services currently run by South Eastern to form a new franchise, which would be known as West Anglia North Kent. Passengers living in that area could then be known as West Anglia North Kenters or for short, .......

Frankly, this is a terrible idea. I'd go as far to say that it is a load of toss...

 

[tbtc]

Since "Capital Connect" is a bit of a meaningless name (sure, it "connects" with the "capital", but to/from where?), as is "C2C" (and "Silverlink" in the past), I wouldn't be surprised if the newly named franchise has no relevance to the precise geographic boundaries..

 

[DXMachina]

Since "Capital Connect" is a bit of a meaningless name (sure, it "connects" with the "capital", but to/from where?), as is "C2C" (and "Silverlink" in the past), I wouldn't be surprised if the newly named franchise has no relevance to the precise geographic boundaries..

"Network Southeast" ?

 

[thameslink2000]

'Southern' would be an appropriate name for the new franchise, because the trains would be serving Southern England.

 

[RobShipway]

I think Meridian is actually a good name, and it's precisely because of ITV Meridian (which isn't defunct by the way); people will associate the name with the region.

(Interesting trivia: Meridian Broadcasting claimed they took their name not from the Prime Meridian, but from the Latin word for southern meridionalis—from which we also get the French term Midi.)

It is also down to the fact that the Meridian line goes through Sussex as well, in fact to be more precise it goes through the Middle of Peacehaven, which is about 7 miles to the east of Brighton. Unfortunately it does not have any train station though.......

But Peacehaven does have the Meridian Shopping Centre, I wonder why it was called that............

Sorry for the precise reply above, but it is the town I grew up in as a child.

 

[OxtedL]

The Meridian ploughs straight through Oxted. About 3 minutes walk from the station.

Just saying.

 

[Chris125]

According to the clarifications given to bidders, its seems a final decision over whether Kings Cross/Moorgate services remain part of Thameslink has yet to be taken...

Q. Can you confirm that the Thameslink franchise will retain all current Great Northern services operated by First Capital Connect, including those that ‘remain domestic to the East Coast Main Line’ (i.e. those that originate/terminate at Kings Cross and Moorgate)

A. This has not been finally decided. However, for the purposes of this PQQ you can assume that the future franchise will retain all current GN services.

Regarding IEP...

...potential providers can assume that such a fleet will be available for these routes and/or propose their own preferred rolling stock solutions

Chris

 

[Schnellzug]

Since "Capital Connect" is a bit of a meaningless name (sure, it "connects" with the "capital", but to/from where?), as is "C2C" (and "Silverlink" in the past),

That was always a silly name. Should have been Coronation, obviously.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Regarding IEP...

...potential providers can assume that such a fleet will be available for these routes and/or propose their own preferred rolling stock solutions

Chris

The latter is interesting. So potential bidders might not have to have it foisted onto them, then? So woudl they be (radical concept) free to choose the number of coaches that they think would be suitable?!

 

[Aictos]

'Southern' would be an appropriate name for the new franchise, because the trains would be serving Southern England.

Not really especially as you've forgotten that these services will be serving East Anglia and the Midlands so calling the company Southern is a bit pointless.

Using your same theory, because these services are serving the Anglia and Midland regions, shouldn't they just call the company Midland?

Since "Capital Connect" is a bit of a meaningless name (sure, it "connects" with the "capital", but to/from where?), as is "C2C" (and "Silverlink" in the past), I wouldn't be surprised if the newly named franchise has no relevance to the precise geographic boundaries..

I disagree, I like the name as it invokes the spirit of getting to the capital from anywhere direct on the Midland, East Coast and Brighton Mainlines.

However if First only won the Great Northern parts of the former WAGN franchise then First Great Northern would have suffice

 

[deltic]

That doesn't come into consideration at all.

As I've said, the bids are blind. The DfT will pick for instance "bid C" as being the best, without knowing it's been submitted by First or whomever.

Bids are not blind. It would be pretty obvious who has submitted every bid even if their name was not plastered all over them.

You can't demonstrate how you have achieved excellence in service or reductions in costs of operations without quoting examples. The names of key staff have also to be submitted.

 

[transmanche]

Not really especially as you've forgotten that these services will be serving East Anglia and the Midlands so calling the company Southern is a bit pointless.

As Southern already operate to Milton Keynes; why not Bedford, Peterborough and Kings Lynn too?

I disagree, I like the name as it invokes the spirit of getting to the capital from anywhere direct on the Midland, East Coast and Brighton Mainlines.

I've never liked the name Capital Connect. (Didn't WAGN use 'Capital Connect' name for inner suburban services back in their early days, much like 'Cambridge Cruiser'?) And First Capital Connect is just a mouthful.

 

[Martin1982]

Not really especially as you've forgotten that these services will be serving East Anglia and the Midlands so calling the company Southern is a bit pointless.

Using your same theory, because these services are serving the Anglia and Midland regions, shouldn't they just call the company Midland?

(Tongue firmly in cheek here) How about calling the new franchise London, Midland & Southern?
(if London Midland didn't already exist that is )

 

[ert47]

I disagree, I like the name as it invokes the spirit of getting to the capital from anywhere direct on the Midland, East Coast and Brighton Mainlines.

Might as well call them something to do with connections... Like Connex or something...

To be honest, the name should stay Southern as the majority of the service will be south of the Thames due to the number of metro/coastway routes.

 

[tbtc]

I disagree, I like the name as it invokes the spirit of getting to the capital from anywhere direct on the Midland, East Coast and Brighton Mainlines

But you could call any TOC serving London "Capita Connect" - it could be FGW or NXEA or EMT or any of them - it's a nonsense name without the context of *where* it connects the Capital with.

Something like London Midland is a great name, because it's fairly obvious where that TOC runs trains.

 

[Aictos]

But you could call any TOC serving London "Capita Connect" - it could be FGW or NXEA or EMT or any of them - it's a nonsense name without the context of *where* it connects the Capital with.

Something like London Midland is a great name, because it's fairly obvious where that TOC runs trains.

So you would have the FCC franchise change it's name to Great Northern as it's then obvious the GN trains serve just the Great Northern and keep the Thameslink name for Thameslink services?

That's just DAfT!

 

[tbtc]

So you would have the FCC franchise change it's name to Great Northern as it's then obvious the GN trains serve just the Great Northern and keep the Thameslink name for Thameslink services?

That's just DAfT!

People generally understand that Thameslink means the route from Kings Cross to Blackfriars through central London (where the stations were named Thameslink).

Whereas "Capital Connect" could be the name for half the TOCs in the UK...

 

[ert47]

People generally understand that Thameslink means the route from Kings Cross to Blackfriars through central London (where the stations were named Thameslink).

Whereas "Capital Connect" could be the name for half the TOCs in the UK...

But then (with the exception of Southern) FCC is the only TOC that provides through services in London, so Capital Connect kinda makes sense when applied to Thameslink

 

[tsr]

But then (with the exception of Southern) FCC is the only TOC that provides through services in London, so Capital Connect kinda makes sense when applied to Thameslink

One could also argue that since London Underground services are only about 40% underground and connect the capital's facilities and population rather well, they may as well be called "Capital Connect"... except that LU is neither a TOC nor a trading name of one.