Continuing signal failures in Thameslink Core

[Furrball]

Once again today:

signalling problems between Farringdon and Kentish Town all lines blocked. Delays up to 45 mins or revised at short notice. More info soon

This seems to becoming nearly a daily occurrence now (ok, not quite that frequent but I bet it feels like it for the passengers!)

 

[elementalpat]

Things just got worse now. No trains between Farrington and Kentish Town. Seems like a crazy amount of times this section (supposedly with new signals) has failed now.

Wonder what the management are doing in terms sorting these issues out.

 

[tsr]

IIRC, some of the first of these major problems happened when some points were removed and the engineers put something electrical - related to the signalling - back into position after the works had been completed, which promptly went wrong. I have no idea if it's related. Fortunately I do not need to use FCC's services today.

EDIT: Now someone's had a multi-vehicle accident on the M1 Northbound near J9, anyone trying to get a coach or medium-distance taxi is also well and truly messed up! Not a good day to try to get to Luton Airport from the south, methinks!

 

[ushawk]

https://p.twimg.com/AjTHbh7CAAENbap.png

Picture posted on Twitter of the crowds outside Farringdon station, must be a big problem to suspend everything through the Thameslink, looking at NRE it does look as if FCC have sorted out a lot of ticket acceptance, which is good.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
EDIT - Just looked at the FCC Twitter, that are saying it is a "UK Network Power Fault", so im assuming power has been lost to all signals. Southern Twitter also said earlier that trains wont run through the Thameslink core for the rest of the day too.

 

[Jnismith]

Having used THameslink for many a year, the last couple of months have been particularly bad (though not as bad as during last year's driver shortage).

Farringdon is now an absolute nightmare, the platforms are too narrow and the access from platform to platform is awful.

So god help us all when 24 trains per hour go through not to mention it being an interchange for crossrail. Any breakdown or signal problem will back up the whole of London.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

No signal aspects at St Pancras - didnt look good so reluctantly went via Luton on the 1800 EMT (God Bless them) - a scratch Bedford - W Hampstead all stations got me back to St Albans. Not good news in the peak (again) - lets hope its sorted by the morning. Stock displacement going to be severe - the Bedford - Medway / Ashford trains were pined southbound and no doubt "re-used or berthed".

Couldent happen at a worst time - just after 1700 hrs.

 

[tsr]

Terrible timing indeed. Everything through that bit of the core will probably be cancelled until tomorrow morning's start of service (at least), I should think, judging by the current advice. Southern's Twitter feed also confirms it is a power failure.

 

[causton]

looking at NRE it does look as if FCC have sorted out a lot of ticket acceptance, which is good.

FCC have failures so often they don't even 'sort out' ticket acceptance any more - they have a standard plan which they use every time there is disruption and each operator will immediately accept tickets it seems - wonder if there even has to be delays before people get let into these alternative routes as the amount of thameslink disruption is so high! :P

 

[tsr]

FCC have failures so often they don't even 'sort out' ticket acceptance any more - they have a standard plan which they use every time there is disruption and each operator will immediately accept tickets it seems - wonder if there even has to be delays before people get let into these alternative routes as the amount of thameslink disruption is so high! :P

It's interesting that the plan shows the NDL as a valid alternative route between Guildford and Redhill. That's logical, but it doesn't show up in the text they use on NRE and FCC's site: there's no mention of FGW.

 

[causton]

Indeed - that's weird as that area's... not... quite... FCC

I presume that is included because if FCC is screwed Southern will have knock-on effects

 

[ushawk]

I believe the 18.06 Victoria to Seaford/Hastings was delayed by just under 20 minutes, started being delayed at East Croydon then it started getting more delayed along the mainline, delay reason was congestion caused by earlier delays so im assuming it may of been a delayed FCC that caused this.

 

[tsr]

...if FCC is screwed Southern will have knock-on effects

Quite. Apart from a few more serious exceptions, there were minor delays this evening as trains waited for platforms at East Croydon (ECR), but for most Southern passengers, I understand there was nothing too noticeable.

 

[Class377/5]

It's interesting that the plan shows the NDL as a valid alternative route between Guildford and Redhill. That's logical, but it doesn't show up in the text they use on NRE and FCC's site: there's no mention of FGW.

Routes choosen is based on staff asking the other TOC. FGW ticket acceptance can be arranged but it's not on the man list.

FCC have failures so often they don't even 'sort out' ticket acceptance any more - they have a standard plan which they use every time there is disruption and each operator will immediately accept tickets it seems - wonder if there even has to be delays before people get let into these alternative routes as the amount of thameslink disruption is so high! :P

The's a deal being made to speed up ticket acceptance that was started last year. Idea behind it is there is going to be problems and this way it's trigger quicker means less overall delays to the passenger as they can access alternate routes faster.

https://p.twimg.com/AjTHbh7CAAENbap.png

Picture posted on Twitter of the crowds outside Farringdon station, must be a big problem to suspend everything through the Thameslink, looking at NRE it does look as if FCC have sorted out a lot of ticket acceptance, which is good.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
EDIT - Just looked at the FCC Twitter, that are saying it is a "UK Network Power Fault", so im assuming power has been lost to all signals. Southern Twitter also said earlier that trains wont run through the Thameslink core for the rest of the day too.

Basically the National Grid overloaded the signalling system and blew the signals out. Big job to fix it all. Note that the problem is unrelated to the recent problems, but doesn't look good.

 

[Furrball]

Having used THameslink for many a year, the last couple of months have been particularly bad (though not as bad as during last year's driver shortage).

Farringdon is now an absolute nightmare, the platforms are too narrow and the access from platform to platform is awful.

So god help us all when 24 trains per hour go through not to mention it being an interchange for crossrail. Any breakdown or signal problem will back up the whole of London.

Probably a whole thread could be done on the new Farringdon!! Certainly at present whilst the 'old' exit bridge is still being worked on 6 carriages (or 10 if it is a 12 car) of passengers have to trek back north to get across to the TfL platforms.

 

[Bedpan]

It's interesting that the plan shows the NDL as a valid alternative route between Guildford and Redhill. That's logical, but it doesn't show up in the text they use on NRE and FCC's site: there's no mention of FGW.

Equally odd that you can't use the East London Line/North London Line to get round to West Hampstead. That's the route I took (from Croydon with a London Travelcard) last time I was stuck in disruption - slow but hassle free.

FCC will never ever learn re communications though. Why say "Signal problems at Farringdon" and "No trains between Farringdon and Kentish Town"? If I was commuter travelling south from Farringdon, I might go there on the assumption that trains were starting there, cue extra people in the crowd in the photograph. Equally, till I was reading this thread I was clueless as to why trains from the north were not running into St Pancras and reversing there. Ah, no signals there, but that was something they were keeping secret.

 

[ushawk]

NRE was saying "No Trains between Kentish Town and City Thameslink" (though when i looked at the LDB earlier, everything from City Thameslink was also cancelled). It also looked like some were running into STP, but perhaps there wasnt enough platform space so thats why they were turned at West Hampstead/Kentish Town. EMT were fine so it was/would of been possible to get into STP.

And London Overground were accepting FCC tickets today as well.

 

[Jnismith]

Many short trains this morning. Should be fun.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Many short trains this morning. Should be fun.

An understatement .....problems in the Bedford area causing delays to 45 southbound , when you lose a 12 car on the 0802 SAC - Brighton , it doesnt take much to gauge the impact on whatever semi- fast and slow trains that were running.

Heroic overcrowding , and much bad tempers.

 

[tsr]

I'll be using Southern later, thank goodness... there are still residual delays with FCC even though the problem at Bedford has disappeared from NRE. Have a look at the Gatwick Airport LDB if you want the evidence!

 

[David Sinnett]

The run in from Bedford was fine this morning...on the 7.58 which was about 10 late at City Thameslink. More or less normal though the previous Elephant was still at Bedford and the 7.55 EMT was about 20 late so many more pax on the 7.58.
Last night was a different story as the train on platform 1 at City was reportedly going soutbound and all pax going north were told to use the underground. I set off walking for Farringdon but many people didn't know how to get there. At Farr, I got the tube to ST. P and waited 20 for the EMT yet there were announcements that FCC trains were running but were all stops. I assume they originated at St. P.
Two questions if I may...
At the EMT barriers, the announcement was that FCC tickets only to Luton, Luton Airport and Bedford would be hounored. A few people walked away groaning yet once on the train it was clear people were planning on going to Luton and hoping to get back to Harpenden or on to Leagrave etc. Presumably, if their tickets had been checked they'd have been charged extra?

Each day I walk from Fenchurch area to the FCC trains at City. At times when they are disrupted and tickets are being accepted by LU, can I take the tube from Aldgate to St P or would I be charged? It's a pain walking to City to find there's no service.

 

[tsr]

The run in from Bedford was fine this morning...on the 7.58 which was about 10 late at City Thameslink. More or less normal though the previous Elephant was still at Bedford and the 7.55 EMT was about 20 late so many more pax on the 7.58.
Last night was a different story as the train on platform 1 at City was reportedly going soutbound and all pax going north were told to use the underground. I set off walking for Farringdon but many people didn't know how to get there. At Farr, I got the tube to ST. P and waited 20 for the EMT yet there were announcements that FCC trains were running but were all stops. I assume they originated at St. P.
Two questions if I may...
At the EMT barriers, the announcement was that FCC tickets only to Luton, Luton Airport and Bedford would be hounored. A few people walked away groaning yet once on the train it was clear people were planning on going to Luton and hoping to get back to Harpenden or on to Leagrave etc. Presumably, if their tickets had been checked they'd have been charged extra?

Each day I walk from Fenchurch area to the FCC trains at City. At times when they are disrupted and tickets are being accepted by LU, can I take the tube from Aldgate to St P or would I be charged? It's a pain walking to City to find there's no service.

EMT started accepting tickets that would mean people would have to double-back about half way through the disruption period, according to FCC's Twitter advice. I wouldn't have tried it, personally, but then I was not in that situation anyway.

If LU are accepting tickets by "any reasonable route", as they normally do when the TL Core goes down, I can't see why you wouldn't be able to use that route. I'll look it up on the alternative routes map if I can find it, since it has a special section about which LU services are permitted for use by TL pax. EDIT: I just looked it up on the map, and you can. See http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/maps/divroutes/FCC%20TL%20alternative%20routes.pdf.

 

[Bedpan]

Its hard to know what to do sometimes. Logically, if you are at St Pancras and there are no northbound FCC trains from there, the easiest way to get home to Harpenden is to travel to Luton or Luton Airport Parkway and either catch a train back or if there aren't any, get somebody to pick you up by car if you can. On the other hand, I can see that EMT and their passengers won't want their trains packed out with passengers ftravelling to Harpenden and St Albans.

In the "good" old days, of course, additional stops would have been likely to have been arranged so there wouldn't have been so much of a problem.

I had a similar problem after the QPR v MKDons game last night - having bought a cheaper "via West Hampstead" ticket I caught the 22.27 from Shepherds Bush to Willesden Junction, with a view to catching the 22.46 from there to West Hampstead. Then heard the 22.46 had broken down at Acton Central, and after half an hour or so we were advised to "take an alternative route" as there would be no eastbound trains for a considerable period.

Frankly I hadn't a clue what to do, in the end I caught a Bakerloo Line train from Willesden Junc to Baker Street and then Jubilee Line from there to West Hampstead underground, arriving back in Harpenden 53 minutes laetr than planned.

The question is, could I have made my way to St Pancras and caught a train home from there, or would I have been asked to buy an additional ticket covering St Pancras to West Hampstead Thameslink or worse, been charged a penalty fare if I had got on the train without one? (Frankly I wasn't prepared to take the risk which was why I took the route that I did).

Incidentally I have never claimed under delay repay, but could I do so on this occasion despite the fact that the delay in arriving home was attributable to London Overground rather than FCC?

 

[Class377/5]

Its hard to know what to do sometimes. Logically, if you are at St Pancras and there are no northbound FCC trains from there, the easiest way to get home to Harpenden is to travel to Luton or Luton Airport Parkway and either catch a train back or if there aren't any, get somebody to pick you up by car if you can. On the other hand, I can see that EMT and their passengers won't want their trains packed out with passengers ftravelling to Harpenden and St Albans.

In the "good" old days, of course, additional stops would have been likely to have been arranged so there wouldn't have been so much of a problem.

I had a similar problem after the QPR v MKDons game last night - having bought a cheaper "via West Hampstead" ticket I caught the 22.27 from Shepherds Bush to Willesden Junction, with a view to catching the 22.46 from there to West Hampstead. Then heard the 22.46 had broken down at Acton Central, and after half an hour or so we were advised to "take an alternative route" as there would be no eastbound trains for a considerable period.

Frankly I hadn't a clue what to do, in the end I caught a Bakerloo Line train from Willesden Junc to Baker Street and then Jubilee Line from there to West Hampstead underground, arriving back in Harpenden 53 minutes laetr than planned.

The question is, could I have made my way to St Pancras and caught a train home from there, or would I have been asked to buy an additional ticket covering St Pancras to West Hampstead Thameslink or worse, been charged a penalty fare if I had got on the train without one? (Frankly I wasn't prepared to take the risk which was why I took the route that I did).

Incidentally I have never claimed under delay repay, but could I do so on this occasion despite the fact that the delay in arriving home was attributable to London Overground rather than FCC?

No way could FCC delay repay would be applied in this issue. It's LO issue.

As for the ticket, not so sure but it should have been valid as LUL was passing tickets due to the problems earlier.

 

[Bedpan]

No way could FCC delay repay would be applied in this issue. It's LO issue.

As for the ticket, not so sure but it should have been valid as LUL was passing tickets due to the problems earlier.

Cheers, having never bothered to make a claim, (which I probably won't in this case either) I wasn't sure if you should claim from the ticket retailer, or from the company who was responsible for the delay (by which I mean the TOC whose train was delayed).

So, hypothetically, if I am travelling home from say Lewes and I decide to change at Gatwick onto an FCC train, and there is a delay originating at, say, Balcome, then I claim from Southern, but if I instead change to FCC at Haywards Heath, then I would claim from them. Is that right?

Sorry that this is a bit off topic, I was originally making the point that its sometimes difficult to know what you are and are not allowed to do when things go pear shaped, its a pity that all TOC's don't provide a map of alternative routes like FCC (although I think that they ought to point out on the map that the 366 from Hatfield and WGC to Luton only riuns once an hour with no evening service),

 

[Minstral25]

No way could FCC delay repay would be applied in this issue. It's LO issue.

As for the ticket, not so sure but it should have been valid as LUL was passing tickets due to the problems earlier.

That's an interesting issue - having a "Southern" London Terminals ticket because that is my only ticket and then catching FCC train daily - when it is delayed an hour recently stuck on the train around Crystal Palace and I make a claim (although Southern services were running). Do I make it to Southern or FCC?

I'm still waiting for my claim since before Xmas and I have had no response.

Roll on the single franchise, run by Southern of course

 

[hairyhandedfool]

When a ticket is sold for use on another TOC, the seller is an agent for that TOC. So your claims for compensation should always go to the TOC providing the service, not the seller of the ticket.

 

[Nym]

Raises an intresting question for myself actually...

Since if I end up working in London theres every chance I will move to St Albans...

Whats the rules regarding a St Albans Central - Thameslink season being valid via Watford Junction on the Abbey Flyer, with or without disruption.

 

[Class377/5]

London Overground delay repay

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/refunds/overgroundrefund/default.asp

Cheers, having never bothered to make a claim, (which I probably won't in this case either) I wasn't sure if you should claim from the ticket retailer, or from the company who was responsible for the delay (by which I mean the TOC whose train was delayed).

So, hypothetically, if I am travelling home from say Lewes and I decide to change at Gatwick onto an FCC train, and there is a delay originating at, say, Balcome, then I claim from Southern, but if I instead change to FCC at Haywards Heath, then I would claim from them. Is that right?

Sorry that this is a bit off topic, I was originally making the point that its sometimes difficult to know what you are and are not allowed to do when things go pear shaped, its a pity that all TOC's don't provide a map of alternative routes like FCC (although I think that they ought to point out on the map that the 366 from Hatfield and WGC to Luton only riuns once an hour with no evening service),

To be fair it is complex and few staff on the ground are told about it. Inter mixing services between other operators is can be hard to work out who you apply for. FCC is currently very pro-active internally on making sure the alternate routes are known and easily give out in times of disprution.

You apply to the TOC who delayed you. Basically the TOC who causes the delay pays delay money to other TOC which then refund you using this. It's all part of the delay attribution.

That's an interesting issue - having a "Southern" London Terminals ticket because that is my only ticket and then catching FCC train daily - when it is delayed an hour recently stuck on the train around Crystal Palace and I make a claim (although Southern services were running). Do I make it to Southern or FCC?

I'm still waiting for my claim since before Xmas and I have had no response.

Roll on the single franchise, run by Southern of course

There's something on the website about an IT fault not emailing confirmation.

Is your ticket Southern only? Or from the Southern region?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Whats the rules regarding a St Albans Central - Thameslink season being valid via Watford Junction on the Abbey Flyer, with or without disruption.

The routing points for St Albans are West Hampstead Group, Bedford and Watford Junction. Both West Hampstead Group and Watford Junction would pass the fares check rule for journeys to London. So via Watford Junction should be fine at any time, unless there is an easement to forbid it ofcourse.

 

[Bedpan]

Thanks very much, Class 377/5, excellent. In fact, as you sent me the form, I thought I might as well fill it in, but having done so I ended up making a complaint to London Overground about it!!!

Here is what I said:-

"I have just made a delay repay claim following a delay at Willesden Junction at 22.46 on17.1.12 when I was travelling from Shepherds Bush to Harpenden.

There were a multitude of problems concerning the design of the form and the restrictions to answering the questions.

Firstly it would not allow me to insert the ticket number in full (the form only allowed 14 digits and my ticket number is 15 digits, (16 with a space) and secondly it would not allow me to insert "Harpenden" as my destination station. As a result I was forced to enter West Hampstead (I chose this as it was a "via West Hampstead" ticket and I was changing from LO to FCC at West Hampstead/West Hampstead Thameslink). I was then forced to tick a declaration box saying the information I had provided was correct, when clearly it wasn't, as I was travelling to Harpenden!!

Further, nowhere did the form ask my ticket type (it was the return portion of an Off Peak Day Return, whether I have a railcard (I have a senior railcard) or the cost (it was £9.50 for the return journey, with the railcard discount), Oddly, it did ask the class; I did not know that LO trains had anything other than Standard Class accommodation.

It may be of course that you can find all of this information from the ticket number (although I only entered the second part (10 digits) as there was not room to put the first part in, but I there was no narrative to this effect.

I could have scanned the ticket and sent a copy to you, along with my ticket for the football match I went to in order to prove I was travelling at that time, but there was no facility to do this, I was again surprised, as it seems to me that any old Tom Dick or Harry holding a Travelcard could allege that they were travelling along a section of route where delays were at the time in question; presumably you are not over bothered about this".