The Great Circular European Railway Challenge

[Glenmutchkin]

i
how hard can it be to get from the castle (big grey thing) to dozsy gyorgy ter (tram station) via those stairs

Is it possible to get out of the castle onto Palota ut or is there some massive difference in levels?

the romanian word for fire is incendiu, (acc google translate) but I was invited into a warmer room in some freezing pub in brasov with this lady declaring what is perhaps the most famous word in the english language which begins with f, and pointing to this door and smiling with a "and it will be nice and warm" face.

These anecdotes are going to get us moved into the xxx section if we are not careful. There might be children reading this. Somebody must be. We are getting about 300 views per day and it can't be just the 4 of us.

 

[Mark_Lester]

Is it possible to get out of the castle onto Palota ut or is there some massive difference in levels?

it's a massive drop, but there are stairs, you go down "a lift" so that sounds mechanical, then down a long flight of steps, then walk down gyorgy.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
there's a great market street. we will have multiple shopping assistants, at least stoy and two highly sophisticated (a lawyer and a tv producer) who would dearly love to do the whole trip but we'll see.

anyway, that can be a combined cultural and nutritional exercise, as well as all the walking I intend to do (stoy mentioned a 2 hour walking tour, no thanks).

we dont need to worry about the technicalities of the bag drop, restaurant and probable washing (if there's no shower on either the train there, or the train from, then we will deffo need a rinse in sofia).

we do need to work out the tram tour, I doubt our hosts use them a great deal.

there is a route up to a spot called rusko posoltstvo
from there it's not far from gara pioneer, which suggests it's a children's railway, if so it's probably a disused narrow gauge.

I'll work on
http://www.metro-tram-bus.info/maps/Sofia_tram_map
http://www.skgt-bg.com/izletni/KARTA_TM_NEWS.pdf
http://osm.org/go/x1DHYFg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourist_attractions_in_Sofia
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
back to budapest, and I think what I am proposing is walking down the left hand side of this as you look at it, which hardly looks like an unadopted path.

http://www.best-of-european-union.e.../national-szechenyi-library-budapest-hungary/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
better still, here's the "lift", i am now seriously intrigued

http://translate.google.com/transla...&channel=fs&gl=uk&biw=1024&bih=477&prmd=imvns

 

[Glenmutchkin]

back to budapest, and I think what I am proposing is walking down the left hand side of this as you look at it, which hardly looks like an unadopted path.

http://www.best-of-european-union.e.../national-szechenyi-library-budapest-hungary/

I saw the lift and a dotted red line on the map. Looking at that definitive source Wikipedia it reads like the castle is split up between various uses such as museums, library , hotel etc. Do all of these interconnect with each other or will we find a locked door somewhere?

I found this on a Budapest Tourist site. It doesn't seem to mention access on the Palota ut side.

Getting to Budapest Castle District

The best way to get up the hill is to take the funicular (Sikló) from Clark Ádám tér at the Buda end of the Chain bridge. The track is almost 100 m long.

Other option is to take the Várbusz (Castle bus: no. 16), it departs every few minutes from Moszkva tér (M2, red metro line, or tram 4,6). A more romantic way of getting to the Castle is by taking the steps leading up the hill from Clark Adam Square.

EDIT Crossposted with

better still, here's the "lift", i am now seriously intrigued

I tried to zoom in on the notice but it is illegible. We need Don to send one of his felons to check this out.

BINGO - •

There is also a lift running from Palota utca up to the palace complex. You will emerge next to the Lion’s Courtyard. The lift runs from Tuesdays to Sundays from 10:00 am to 8:00 pm.

From this website http://www.budapest-discovery-guide.com/castle-hill-budapest.html

 

[Mark_Lester]

http://www.oszk.hu/megkozelites

there's a photo with red marker on which is good as it possibly gets.

this "lift" runs from 10am to 8pm everyday except monday
http://www.budapest-discovery-guide.com/castle-hill-budapest.html

i can find no photographic or technical record of what this "lift" consists of.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
i'd seen the walk across the "chain bridge", but it looks like a bridge to me, it's got traffic, though no tram. we could get off at the end of line 1 on the way there and walk over the river on the way to the siklo, but we are pushed for time, and we do that later anyway (get off line 1 and walk to river) on the way to the market.

anyway, what was already a logical way to get to the cog quickly now has some form of locomotion in this lift which has made it a sub feature.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

We seem to have crossposted there.

So that's Budapest sorted unless we are there on a Monday. Where's next?

 

[Mark_Lester]

We seem to have crossposted there.

So that's Budapest sorted unless we are there on a Monday. Where's next?

there's loads of eat opportunities on the hill, we should prob beeling there for lunch snack.

tram tour sofia, see fb post.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

tram tour sofia, see fb post.

Yes. I saw that.

This looks as if it might be useful if we can work out how to translate it. It appeared on another thread about Interrail Eating Places. I've posted to ask if anybody knows how but I expect that it will be a doddle for an IT wizard to sort.

http://www.zelpage.cz/?lang=en

 

[Donbacsi]

I am amused...really amused. In all the years I have spent helping put together itineraries for B-pest and/or Hungary, this is truley the worst scheme I have ever seen. If the rest of your stops are going to be like this one, then you are really in for an adventure.
What I suggested was based on your goals and the reality of B-pest at the height of the tourist season. You don't seem to realize there will be huge crowds of tourist there, of all ages, desires and sophistication. You are not going to be able to just hop any tram you want at any time. A gang of 12-15 men is a clot in the veins of B-pest tourism.
A can assure you with your plan you WILL run out of time.
My thought was to take the Red line direct from Keleti to Moskva Ter and the bus connector to the Cog and Childrens (Pioneer) rail. I assumed this was priority #1. Somehow this turned into getting off the Red to take a workers' tram to the #1 for a bit. Then in an way unknown to me you arrive at the Siklo, ( which should be taken next to last). There will be a large line there! Then you think you are going to be able to just blast into one of the many overpriced, bland tourist cafes on top of the hill. These places are all full of blue-haired ladies taking tea. Good luck on your lunch. Don't eat on the hill.
For some reason you are committed to wasting 1&1/2 to 2 hours on the hill. Do you know what the castle looked like at the end of the war? This is simply a reconstituted shell and does not hold the great treasures of the country. Those are to be found in the Nemzeti Muzeum and the Parliament.
You looked at a couple of promotional tourist pages that said "an easy walk up the hill." This is like when a heart surgeon says "you may feel some slight discomfort." Yes there are ways up and down the hill. The steep stairs to the east, the slope to the north that forces you to walk far out of your way to get to transport. Yes you can walk or bus down the road on the western slope. I would suggest you watch the Budapest episode of Top Gear to see how one of the bike racers went over the rail and tumbled down the "hill"/cliff/mountain all the way to the road below. Then there is the highly vaunted southern slope. Bring your allergy medicine. These steps are primarily used by workers going to and from their jobs on the hill. When you arive at the base of the steps you will find yourselves at the workers' district to the southwest of the hill. After you cram onto the tram full of greasy cover-alls, you will creep through this district. It is primarily workers' flats, and tawdry subsistance shops. In addition, it has been my experience these roads are constantly under seige of repair so the trams must inch along so they don't collapse the trenches.
Assuming you make it to the rails and get back to Moskva with time, the plan of taking the tram (a very mundane route) around to Oktogon will be the kiss of death. This time of year/day they will be full of locals, shoppers, commuters and tourists. If you think you will be able to get 12-15 on at one go you will be sorely disappointed. Then you must wait another 15-20 minutes. When you do get to Oktogon (probably by walking), yes it is a big platform on which you will see next to nothing. There are times of day when they could use Tokyo "Jammers' to load the cars. It is a "get on or get out of the way" station. You know the type in London. Much better to jump on at a small station where you will have time and room to inspect the columns, tiles and wood and brass ticket booths. You are perhaps not aware that from the Deak Ter "hub" none of the legs radiating out take more than 15 minutes to reach their terminus. Which, of course, is why the trains come by every 15 minutes.
Your tram choices are dreadful and omit the absolute choicest of all runs. I don't understand the priorities. Is it just a contrariness to find the most obscure, arcane routes?
In all, I have doubts you will be able to enjoy the central market. In which case, you will arrive at Keleti with a less than full larder. Ergo, Mark will stay awake all night on the train listening to the grumblings of his mates' stomachs as they sharpen their knives in the dark.
As "Budapest has been sorted" I shall retire to lurking for now and await further amusing developments.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

Don

Please don't be offended by our cheap levity. We both have a tendency to get carried away by what might be possible. I don't think that either of us seriously view Budapest as "sorted". It's what we call banter and you probably call BS.

I think that you have hit upon one real truth in your post.

Is it just a contrariness to find the most obscure, arcane routes?

Part of the mission is to turn a series of train rides into a memorable event. Every now and again we reach out a bit too far and have to wind our necks in a bit. Budapest looks to have loads of the wacky things we love and we are keen to sample as many of them as possible. Without your contribution so far we would have been stuck at the miming sausages stage of the plan. There has to be a middle way here.

Thanks for the warning about blue haired ladies. Avoiding them is why I have put my name down for this.

Anyway. We would miss Scooter.

 

[Mark_Lester]

I am amused...really amused. In all the years I have spent helping put together itineraries for B-pest and/or Hungary, this is truley the worst scheme I have ever seen. If the rest of your stops are going to be like this one, then you are really in for an adventure.
What I suggested was based on your goals and the reality of B-pest at the height of the tourist season. You don't seem to realize there will be huge crowds of tourist there, of all ages, desires and sophistication. You are not going to be able to just hop any tram you want at any time. A gang of 12-15 men is a clot in the veins of B-pest tourism.
A can assure you with your plan you WILL run out of time.
My thought was to take the Red line direct from Keleti to Moskva Ter and the bus connector to the Cog and Childrens (Pioneer) rail. I assumed this was priority #1. Somehow this turned into getting off the Red to take a workers' tram to the #1 for a bit. Then in an way unknown to me you arrive at the Siklo, ( which should be taken next to last). There will be a large line there! Then you think you are going to be able to just blast into one of the many overpriced, bland tourist cafes on top of the hill. These places are all full of blue-haired ladies taking tea. Good luck on your lunch. Don't eat on the hill.
For some reason you are committed to wasting 1&1/2 to 2 hours on the hill. Do you know what the castle looked like at the end of the war? This is simply a reconstituted shell and does not hold the great treasures of the country. Those are to be found in the Nemzeti Muzeum and the Parliament.
You looked at a couple of promotional tourist pages that said "an easy walk up the hill." This is like when a heart surgeon says "you may feel some slight discomfort." Yes there are ways up and down the hill. The steep stairs to the east, the slope to the north that forces you to walk far out of your way to get to transport. Yes you can walk or bus down the road on the western slope. I would suggest you watch the Budapest episode of Top Gear to see how one of the bike racers went over the rail and tumbled down the "hill"/cliff/mountain all the way to the road below. Then there is the highly vaunted southern slope. Bring your allergy medicine. These steps are primarily used by workers going to and from their jobs on the hill. When you arive at the base of the steps you will find yourselves at the workers' district to the southwest of the hill. After you cram onto the tram full of greasy cover-alls, you will creep through this district. It is primarily workers' flats, and tawdry subsistance shops. In addition, it has been my experience these roads are constantly under seige of repair so the trams must inch along so they don't collapse the trenches.
Assuming you make it to the rails and get back to Moskva with time, the plan of taking the tram (a very mundane route) around to Oktogon will be the kiss of death. This time of year/day they will be full of locals, shoppers, commuters and tourists. If you think you will be able to get 12-15 on at one go you will be sorely disappointed. Then you must wait another 15-20 minutes. When you do get to Oktogon (probably by walking), yes it is a big platform on which you will see next to nothing. There are times of day when they could use Tokyo "Jammers' to load the cars. It is a "get on or get out of the way" station. You know the type in London. Much better to jump on at a small station where you will have time and room to inspect the columns, tiles and wood and brass ticket booths. You are perhaps not aware that from the Deak Ter "hub" none of the legs radiating out take more than 15 minutes to reach their terminus. Which, of course, is why the trains come by every 15 minutes.
Your tram choices are dreadful and omit the absolute choicest of all runs. I don't understand the priorities. Is it just a contrariness to find the most obscure, arcane routes?
In all, I have doubts you will be able to enjoy the central market. In which case, you will arrive at Keleti with a less than full larder. Ergo, Mark will stay awake all night on the train listening to the grumblings of his mates' stomachs as they sharpen their knives in the dark.
As "Budapest has been sorted" I shall retire to lurking for now and await further amusing developments.

I think I said recently "we should make a beeline for the hill", which is what we'll do (fastest route to siklo) and grab something to eat in the old town.
We're still trying to fathom why coming out of the back of the hill and catching the tram to moskva and the cog can possibly be slower than going back down the siklo and then at least one more tram. the greasy workers sound great actually, if budapests inner city arterial roads are so buggered then may be we should scale the whole project down.
as for doing oktogan, you've sold me, ditch line 1 all but completely, there isnt enough time. just end up at that southern end of line #1 then get the tram along the east bank to the market. is there a problem with that ?.

we really appreciate your input don but we werent born yesterday either, we need to be in one group, your plan had some of us working as domestics and the rest playing on the trains.
we want to go down the other side of the hill, we want to use the mysterious "lift".

we also need a travel agent, probably several.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

we also need a travel agent, probably several.

There are a few listed in Thomas Cook's.

It says Sources of Rail Passes. Many can also provide point to point tickets and further information about rail travel.

It includes the usual suspects like Dbahn and Eurrail but also smaller setups like Ffestiniog.

Do you think that it's worth giving a few of them a ring? If so what exactly do we need to ask?

 

[Donbacsi]

Scooter, the voice of reason, has spoken. What are your priorities, in what order?
Siklo, Hill, crappy time wasting lunch on hill, crummy time wasting castle tour, workers' tram, lift that will require perhaps 4-5 trips to handle the gang, walk down sneezy hill, scenic tram, cog, childrens rail, oldest underground in the world, yellow, red and/or blue line Metros combined, food?
Bear in mind the workers' tram doesn't always inch. Sometimes it comes to a complete stop as they wait for the workers to climb out of the trenches. The clock is ticking! I will be sorely disappointed if the #1 line (yellow) doesn't come in at top of the list. It is absolutely the easiest and quickest (and most important ) on the list. Perhaps a poll is order?

 

[Mark_Lester]

just reading that all a bit more closely.
we havent got hours on the hill.
if we go straight there form impact I'll be happy to be up there for 1:30. That gives us 1 1/2 hours obviously to get to the start of the top of the childrens by 3pm. I havent looked closely at the cog times, i think it's every 20 mins.

we wont be sitting down to eat with blue rinse ladies, but what are we aiming for here ?, somewhere that the blue rinse, and all those filthy tourist people hang out, or commuter routes where they dont ?.
if we can hang a right out of the siklo and swing through the old town and get something out of a bakery then it will keep us going till we get back to the market.
we then walk across the main palace complex and down this "lift", which at least 50% of the steering committee is now determined to do.
if we can get to the sczerny whatsitsface at the top of the childrens early then, er, we can look at the trains, but we've barely half an hour on the hill to be safe.
a 3pm dep from there means we surely will be back at the market not long after 4pm if we just get the red line to deak then do one stop to the end of line #1 and then tram down the east side.

that gives over 2 hours to shop and eat then return to keleti.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There are a few listed in Thomas Cook's.

It says Sources of Rail Passes. Many can also provide point to point tickets and further information about rail travel.

It includes the usual suspects like Dbahn and Eurrail but also smaller setups like Ffestiniog.

Do you think that it's worth giving a few of them a ring? If so what exactly do we need to ask?

Q. can you book sleeper supplements and arrange block booking of berths on any of our trains south of budapest.

if anyone says yes it's a major step forward.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

I think we want to do the Siklo thing up to the castle. Therefore we need to descend afterwards and if there is an alternative route (i.e. lift) that seems to be the way to go. We don't need any guided tour or sightseeing at the castle.

Thought. Would we have to pay to get into castle just to get from top of Siklo to the lift?

An Alf Dibbler Special will do for lunch.

As a backstop we could work out a "Not beyond time" where, regardless of where we have got to, we about turn and make tracks for the market.

Q. can you book sleeper supplements and arrange block booking of berths on any of our trains south of budapest.

if anyone says yes it's a major step forward.

OK. I'll start ringing round tomorrow. Can't promise to get them all done. It's Lady G's birthday so I'm taking her to the Toby Carvery Happy Hour (2.30 - 4.445)

 

[Mark_Lester]

I think we want to do the Siklo thing up to the castle. Therefore we need to descend afterwards and if there is an alternative route (i.e. lift) that seems to be the way to go. We don't need any guided tour or sightseeing at the castle.

Thought. Would we have to pay to get into castle just to get from top of Siklo to the lift?

An Alf Dibbler Special will do for lunch.

As a backstop we could work out a "Not beyond time" where, regardless of where we have got to, we about turn and make tracks for the market.



OK. I'll start ringing round tomorrow. Can't promise to get them all done. It's Lady G's birthday so I'm taking her to the Toby Carvery Happy Hour (2.30 - 4.445)

there's a massive flight of stairs you can get down the side of the library if this lift is just that, a small office lift taking 5.

if we are dong a weekday (which unless we can locate a 3rd party picnic supply company we will be) then we dont need to reserve a carriage on the childrens railway, so we can get a 4pm train if we are late, though we will then be rushed in the market as we'd only get there with an hour before closing.

if we do go for a weekend then we should do it the other way round, the steam engine will then be facing the right way and would be worth watching the thing panting it's way up the hill. but we'd then need to fork out for the carriage and thus need to be there on time or lose £100s worth of train treat.
but there would be no market at the end, so we'd need the supplies sorting out somehow.

 

[Donbacsi]

Let's burn some bridges (in no particular order). You can go to the Szentharomseg Ter (Holy Trinity Square) and get goodies at the extreme southwest corner. Get goodies, then as you return, turn immediately right for two minutes of terrific view of the Buda hills. Continue back towards the castle. This is really not a photo op because unless you want to risk falling over the cliff, you can't get more of the castle in the shot than would look like a firing squad line up of the gang. You CAN get a shot, if you lay on your back, of the group standing in front of the immense Hungarian Eagle (Sas) statue. Continue on the left side of the castle and out the wall and this will take you to the lift. I should mention there is a loose step leading down into the castle courtyard so be careful or someone can wind up with a broken ankle...seriously.

 

[Mark_Lester]

Let's burn some bridges (in no particular order). You can go to the Szentharomseg Ter (Holy Trinity Square) and get goodies at the extreme southwest corner. Get goodies, then as you return, turn immediately right for two minutes of terrific view of the Buda hills. Continue back towards the castle. This is really not a photo op because unless you want to risk falling over the cliff, you can't get more of the castle in the shot than would look like a firing squad line up of the gang. You CAN get a shot, if you lay on your back, of the group standing in front of the immense Hungarian Eagle (Sas) statue. Continue on the left side of the castle and out the wall and this will take you to the lift. I should mention there is a loose step leading down into the castle courtyard so be careful or someone can wind up with a broken ankle...seriously.

thanks. is trinity sq where matyas templom is at the bottom of Tamok?

re group photos, there will be the odd one with everyone, both probably at st pancras. but this is a bunch of middle aged blokes, we dont do photogenic.
some shots with at least one of us so we can prove we were at such and such will suffice, generally just a shot of the relevant building, may be with one of us just about identifiable walking cross shot 30 yards awaywill be plenty.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
we need more hill time.
to walk down tamok and back up uri fron the siklo is 2.5 km, so that's half an hour even at a good pace.
I think we will have to put up with disz ter at the top. but surely we should walk at least the eastern/riverside side of the castle wall. where are the conical towers ?.
are rhe ramparts free to walk ?, it's not just the money it's the confinement and also the hassle of purchasing, when you pay to do something you are naturaly hemmed into the paid for bit.

if we do neither, just march straight through the palace and out through the back door, then it's feasible, but the views from the top of this over the city really are amazing, we'll need some time to do that, walking along the wall would fix that, but we'll need more than half an hour up there.

we need to be at dozsa gyorga for 2pm, that would give us a fighting chance of catching the 19 minutes past cog. it takes 15 mins to get to the top. if we missed the 19 past we would certainly get the 39 minutes, but then would have just 5 minutes to get on the childrens train.
the childrens railway takes 40 minutes,

the 61 back from that is every 6 mins and i guess takes 15 mins to get to moskva so there by 4pm. vorosmarty ter by 4:15-4:25pm, market by 4:30-4:50pm. kicked out for 6pm, departure 7pm.

so from that, I make it we cant get the 4pm childrens "if we feel like it", if we were to miss the 3pm childrens train we'd have to get the cog straight back down or not have enough time to shop. the childrens train up the hill leaves 10 past the hour, and the tram to it is quicker than the cog (and we're possibly already on it from moskva, 61 or 59) . is, so if we are pushed we do it the other way and come down the cog. actually that makes a heck of a lot of sense as far as the robustness of this is concerned. we need to be on a north bound 61 from palyaudvar no later than 14:30 (that leaves 20 mins lag at the far end).
that means we definitely end up back at varos major at the end of the cog at 4:15pm, so we can only realistically expect to be in the market for 5pm.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

I have just spoken to 3 travel agents. Nobody said you must be joking - it can't be done.

Ffestiniog are getting back to me. IMP(Lincoln?) said that they would have to speak to the people they deal with in London and get back to me. Ultima, Chester said give us time to work on it. He was interested enough to get the website up and look at the route and says that the biggest problem will be Lisbon - Hendaye because the Portuguese system doesn't talk to any of the others! Madrid - Lisbon is OK because the Spanish do it.
He also said that couchettes would be much easier than sleepers but I think that we knew that.

There's one more to try but they keep banking hours.

 

[Mark_Lester]

I have just spoken to 3 travel agents. Nobody said you must be joking - it can't be done.

Ffestiniog are getting back to me. IMP(Lincoln?) said that they would have to speak to the people they deal with in London and get back to me. Ultima, Chester said give us time to work on it. He was interested enough to get the website up and look at the route and says that the biggest problem will be Lisbon - Hendaye because the Portuguese system doesn't talk to any of the others! Madrid - Lisbon is OK because the Spanish do it.
He also said that couchettes would be much easier than sleepers but I think that we knew that.

There's one more to try but they keep banking hours.

good work.
yes the trenhotel in and to spain/portugal we'll do directly. same scando. london to amsterdam, and also paris-london, is eurostar group travel. tirano-st moritz is swiss travel, the are prob best also for the italian trains. anyone can book gemany and down to budapest.
it's budapest to ljubljana that I havent got anyone for.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

Just had a call back from Ruth at Ffestiniog Travel who said. There would be no problems dealing with Reservations Budapest - Ljubljana. We've done it before for smaller groups. Come back to us this time next year.

IMP have come back to say that their people in London say it is not possible to book on Budapest-Bucharest and they don't deal with trains to and from Istanbul. I bet Don has a word for people like that.

One thing that we might need to think about is the timetable change date in June 2013.

Canterbury Rail Travel also reckon that it would be no bother but said come back early next year.

 

[Mark_Lester]

Just had a call back from Ruth at Ffestiniog Travel who said. There would be no problems dealing with Reservations Budapest - Ljubljana. We've done it before for smaller groups. Come back to us this time next year.

IMP have come back to say that their people in London say it is not possible to book on Budapest-Bucharest and they don't deal with trains to and from Istanbul. I bet Don has a word for people like that.

One thing that we might need to think about is the timetable change date in June 2013.

Canterbury Rail Travel also reckon that it would be no bother but said come back early next year.

OK great. I vote for Ffestiniog on name alone, though flash website. I think that we cant get advance booking reductions in Norway other than directly from Norwegian railways, but she may be worth asking about that. She might turn into a one stop solution and will accept a cheque/card payment for it all from each of us and I'm just left running the picnic kitty and the hostel fees.(and how to run cash flow for 7 currencies in 4 days).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I'm not even sure now what the issue is with norway, i think it's only if you are purchasing basic tickets, there's no reduction anyway on these sleepers, it's 80 quid for a pair, end of.
they can blatantly get this open top bernina worked out for us judging by their repertoire.

I'll put together a quote based on what I have from various, and seat61 for the unquoted bits.
There's nothing special in my quote, there are very few group discounts relevant, eurostar is an exception, and if she can do the rest at quoted prices and will except multiple cheques then it saves me a massive ball ache.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

You did spot the caveat?

Just had a call back from Ruth at Ffestiniog Travel who said. There would be no problems dealing with Reservations Budapest - Ljubljana. We've done it before for smaller groups. Come back to us this time next year.

 

[Mark_Lester]

You did spot the caveat?

ah, well yeah I do now, did you give her the intermediate destinations ?.

here's what I think it costs,

interrail 15 day pass £371

eurostar group travel
london-amstrdam £50
paris london £41
amsterdam-copenhagen £50.


nsb
olso-trondhiem Kr850 (2 beds, £90, so £45 each)
I dont have a quote for sweden actually, so call it the same £45

prague-vienna £35

seat 61
budapest-bucharest £35
bucahrest-istanbul £35
istanbul-sofia £20
sofia-begrade £10

rome-milan £45

renfe
geneva - barcelona e75
madrid lisbon e25
lisbon hendaye e30
£108

that's £935

there are then seat reservations for all the day trains
fortunately we dont get "day trains" in the deep south, I doubt you can get a little white ticket pinned to your seat down there.

i think only the following are reserve able

copenhagen-gothernburg
gothenburg-oslo
trondheim-fauske
narvik-boden
stockholm-copenhagen
copenhagen-hamburg
hamburg-berlin
berlin-dresden
dresden-prague
bratsilava-budapest
trieste-venice
venice-rome
barcleona-madrid
hendaye-paris

that lot is going to cost over £50. you wouldnt need to do it if you were traveling alone, but you arent, and it will be a mess otherwise.

estimate 50 quid a day for everything else (I'll make a more informed stab later but I think that's overkill on average) that comes in obviously at £1800 and the bar tab paid, london to london.

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so where did we get to, can ffestiniog do trains south of budapest ?, did anyone else get back ?.

sofia
go straight to base camp which will be not far from the nice market (my fav tourist attraction on my prev visit) eat and deposit luggage, then do supplies and dump that also
then tram trip
tram #18 south, tram ‎#6 back, as it goes right across town, to obelyar and get a metro across to lublin then a #8 back
return to get bags and go

I need to look at the timings for that trip.

belgrade
there's a circle line, tram #2. job done. we are scheduled in at an appalling time in the morning, I cant find a timetable but i doubt it would take longer than an hour. belgradians call down town "the circle of line 2", it's also the route of the tourist tram so it's a no brainer (which at that time of the morning is just as well).

also, in budapest, may be we should get tram 2 all the way back from the market to kossuth lajos ter on the red line, i.e. back along the main section of the river. we did it half way on the way there, but only after we caught line #1, it may make no difference and be the more scenic route along the river.


oh, and we do have one balkan day train, the one out of belgrade after a pig early start. could be the roughest trip of the lot even with a block res.
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update on belgrade.
the market, zeleni venac, "green wreath", only a few hundred meters from the station, doesnt open till 8. we land at 04:30 but we'll be praying it's late.
sun comes up at 5 though, so after having a coffee and anything else on offer we can get the #2 tram on a whole circle for 50 dinars (40p), then go to zeleni, there is an egg mcmuffin option there if we are still before 8am and feeling sorry for ourselves.get supplies and back to the station.
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ouch, did I say arrive belgrade 4:30, i meant 3 flipping 57.
that's in total 3 hours to kill till 7, when we could get the tram in time to arrive at the market at earliest opening.
three hours in here doesnt look fun
http://www.flickr.com/photos/melita666/3028216542/
now of course we're only doing this because the other one straight from istanbul, is usually over 2 hours late and couldnt make the connection. That would be ideal, 1/2 hours coffee, 1 hour tram, 1 1/2 hour market, and most of another hour back at the station. I'm sure you can ge breakfast round this market before 8am, so we can do the tram as early after daybreak 5am) as we like. So that leaves a maximum of an hour

ooh, this looks much more hopeful
http://blog.travelpod.com/travel-ph...st-beer-in-the-belgrade-station.jpg/tpod.html
i dont mind sitting an hour there if they are on the case at 4 in the morning.
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this new station in berlin is well worth looking at, I think they'd nearly finished it but still had loads of building stuff going on when i was there in 2006.
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barcelona
has a funky funicular railway
http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitxer:Funicular_del_Tibidabo.jpg
and a heritage tram to get to it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramvia_Blau

theres another funicular nearby,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funicular_de_Vallvidrera
not as funky but you can sit at the front and watch this
http://www.ipernity.com/doc/151830/10406610
I'm working out how we get from one to the other, they are on the same hill, I think there's a bus.

 

[Donbacsi]

Now that you have gotten your caveat and have the entire Budapest-Ljubljana reservations "sorted out" I will chime in. As I suggested before, try booking group seats/compartments/etc. for sometime in the next three months. Test all your travel agents. When/if they come back with something useful, thank them and tell them to put you on their roster and contact you this time next year. Gently let them know that if they drop the ball on this you will sue their brains out.
As you move east and south of Vienna you will find it increasingly diffucult to arrange reservations for any time in the distance. This is because of the "Schedule change". As far I have been able to determine, the schedules never change, and some may have been the same for up to 80 years,. But, it is their pitch and you must play by (or around) their rules. Sometimes you can get arrangements as far out as 6 months, but it can be as short as 3.

 

[Mark_Lester]

Now that you have gotten your caveat and have the entire Budapest-Ljubljana reservations "sorted out" I will chime in. As I suggested before, try booking group seats/compartments/etc. for sometime in the next three months. Test all your travel agents. When/if they come back with something useful, thank them and tell them to put you on their roster and contact you this time next year. Gently let them know that if they drop the ball on this you will sue their brains out.
As you move east and south of Vienna you will find it increasingly diffucult to arrange reservations for any time in the distance. This is because of the "Schedule change". As far I have been able to determine, the schedules never change, and some may have been the same for up to 80 years,. But, it is their pitch and you must play by (or around) their rules. Sometimes you can get arrangements as far out as 6 months, but it can be as short as 3.

i think the caveat is that ruth might think we are going directly from budapest to ljubjana.

it doesnt matter if it's 3 weeks, we just need them reserving. I need the plan, which is now 120+ different journeys on various forms of locomotion, done much earlier than that as some things need booking well in advance.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

i think the caveat is that ruth might think we are going directly from budapest to ljubjana.

To be honest my Welsh isn't the best but I do pride myself on adequate English. We definitely discussed Budapest-Bucharest-Istanbul- Belgrade - Sofia-Ljubljana.

There is a thread somewhere on here about Berlin that commends Berlin Hauptbahnhof as one of the new wonders of the world. If the Brandenburg Gate is somewhere nearby that sounds like the perfect solution.

 

[Mark_Lester]

To be honest my Welsh isn't the best but I do pride myself on adequate English. We definitely discussed Budapest-Bucharest-Istanbul- Belgrade - Sofia-Ljubljana.

There is a thread somewhere on here about Berlin that commends Berlin Hauptbahnhof as one of the new wonders of the world. If the Brandenburg Gate is somewhere nearby that sounds like the perfect solution.

we need a short midnight tram tour of berlin, one to the Brandenburg gate, and then one to the best lit street in town is enough.

I forgot the bus fare from fauske to narvik, so that certainly takes us over £1000, even without day train reservations.
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take a look at this,
http://dewi.ca/trains/barcelon/index.html
when i started flicking through I thought "yeah, but it's not 1956 is it, but it is. no monorail anymore, though there is a scary roller coaster in this amuzement park. we'll get there before 11, it is rails after all,
http://www.rac105.cat/2010/7/per-que-hi-ha-muntanyes-russes
oh, this does the job
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSOukRWkZ1o
right, that's officially in as fixed rail powered transport, if you dont do it you havent completed the course.

get the 111 bus afterwards and come down via another rack.
we've 5 hours to kill in barcelona, we'll be back down town between 12 and 1pm unless we eat somewhere up the hill, may be in valvidrera, ah see here

Next comes Upper Vallvidrera and a fantastic remnant of the 1906 line -- the modernist art nouveau Vallvidrera Superior station. Walking around this little jewel of a station, with its voluptuously curved windows and entrance, is like stepping back in time to the era of Gaudi. Constructed in 1905, the station was designed by the architect Bonaventura Conill i Montobbio, who who designed a good number of the buildings in Vallvidrera. Make sure to visit the viewing platform at the back of the station's lobby.
.

http://spaintheblog.blogspot.com/2007/08/from-seaside-to-hillside-part-3.html

this is a class A excursion, again.

 

[Glenmutchkin]

this is a class A excursion, again.

Looks absolutely spot on. We're going to need a bag drop.

PS The Caveat. None of the agents is interested in doing any serious work until next year's timetable, prices and train formations are announced. If you want to get detailed quotes out of them you are going to have to pretend to want to book it for this year and pick some dates.

Belgrade. I thought that we had established that the train we plan to travel on is regularly 2-3 hours late into Belgrade therefore it will be more like 6/7a.m. when we get there.

Copenhagen - On the GCERC website you have mentioned a tram ride. According to this site the last tram in Copenhagen ran in 1972.

http://www.sporvej.dk/eng/start.htm

 

[Mark_Lester]

Looks absolutely spot on. We're going to need a bag drop.

yes,

PS The Caveat. None of the agents is interested in doing any serious work until next year's timetable, prices and train formations are announced. If you want to get detailed quotes out of them you are going to have to pretend to want to book it for this year and pick some dates.

i know that no-one is going to tott up the whole lot, it would take hours, but we need to know they arent bull-****ting either.

Belgrade. I thought that we had established that the train we plan to travel on is regularly 2-3 hours late into Belgrade therefore it will be more like 6/7a.m. when we get there.

the train that's late is another one, from istanbul. we dont know if this one is especially late.

Copenhagen - On the GCERC website you have mentioned a tram ride. According to this site the last tram in Copenhagen ran in 1972.

http://www.sporvej.dk/eng/start.htm

oh, is it just metro, well there's a harbour bus anyway.
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here's a great vid of this monorail they used to have
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Yu7MXw2uCY&feature=related
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where did I put that lisbon sketch ?, i was just embellishing the places page (and fixing mythical trams)
i've got a 1st cut of a lisbon funicular bagging circuit somewhere.

 

[Donbacsi]

Mark: I have written twice about this, and Glen has come in with exactly the same advice I gave. Unless you are prepared to lead the Highland Guards with a back-up regiment of Gurkas into the Balkans, you are simply not going to get your reservations on your timetable. I will give you a "backdoor" site on MAV that explains it all and has all contact information. However, since I assume your Hungarian is a little less than mine, here is the key phrase on that page: "Jegyajánlataink 2011. március 15-étől". This is the date the schedule changes. You will get nothing beyond that. Therefore, it will change 3/15/12, and again 3/15/13. Unless and untill the Balkan states upgrade from steam-driven to coal-fired computers, they will not book anything that is not on the current schedule. Try your travel agents for a trip for you and wife between now and 3/15/12. You want compartments, couchettes or at the very least adjoining seats. When and if someone comes back to you, then you can give them the good news that what you actually want is booking for 12-15, and that you will pay in advance for them to book the second the new schedule comes on line.
http://elvira.mav-start.hu/gyik.htm#jegyajanlataink
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I now am ready to book you and your wife leaving B-pest tomorrow at 19:10 in a sleeping compartment for Bucharesti arriving at 11:00. 115EU. Shall I press confirm? You see, it is that easy and will be that easy when the time comes.
http://elvira.mav-start.hu/elvira.dll/xslms/uf