Do You Agree With Ticket Barriers?

[Aictos]

As long as ATGs/manual gatelines are used effectively together with on board checks then it's fine, the problems start when ATGs are introduced to stations but there's a shortage of staff to man them properly as that leads to ticket evasion.

There's very little point in gating every station in the UK but the busier stations ought to be, see my example of York and Bristol Temple Meads as a worthwhile example.

 

[Mex]

I think ticket barriers are great.

Especially the one at Glasgow Queen St which has a nice long think about whether to accept my season ticket, and then changes its mind when I'm partly through it, shoving me back into the queue of people behind me.

How we all laughed.

 

[cuccir]

They are also not the only solution, they only work in parallel with effective on train checks, and good trainin gfor those staffing the gateline... I don't find using barriers much of a problem, except where the design of the station really precludes the installation of sufficient barriers.

These are pretty much the reasons that I voted for 'only commuter lines'.

Barriers work best where:
* The distance between stations relative to the train length or busyness prevents on-board guards or RPIs from being able to reliably check tickets
* There is only one TOC
* There are fewer platforms

I don't think, for example, that a station such as Newcastle should really have them. They don't stop people with an XC ticket getting on to an East Coast train. They don't stop people who have travelled a distance without having their ticket checked, claiming that they boarded a northern rail train at an unstaffed station - and thus getting discounts or a cheaper fare. They cut the station facilities in half. They often mean that an entire HST's worth of passengers has to disembark via three or four narrow gates.

So they are a good tool. But I don't think that large interchange stations should have them.

 

[exile]

But surely the ticket remains valid to the point you get off the train.... so are you actually travelling with an invalid ticket?

 

[scrapy]

What barriers do do well though is ensure people who were jut going to jump on the train from staffed stations and pay if the guard comes round have tickets. This means the guard has more time to check tickets/railcards properly and more time to sell tickets from unstaffed stations. It isn't uncommon on the Buxton line for example for a guard to still be selling tickets from Manchester stations 25 minutes into the journey and they are unable to get to those who boarded at unstaffed stations because they are still selling tickets to people who already should have them.

 

[Greenback]

These are pretty much the reasons that I voted for 'only commuter lines'.

Barriers work best where:
* The distance between stations relative to the train length or busyness prevents on-board guards or RPIs from being able to reliably check tickets
* There is only one TOC
* There are fewer platforms

I don't think, for example, that a station such as Newcastle should really have them. They don't stop people with an XC ticket getting on to an East Coast train. They don't stop people who have travelled a distance without having their ticket checked, claiming that they boarded a northern rail train at an unstaffed station - and thus getting discounts or a cheaper fare. They cut the station facilities in half. They often mean that an entire HST's worth of passengers has to disembark via three or four narrow gates.

So they are a good tool. But I don't think that large interchange stations should have them.

Indeed. Newcastle probably counts as one of the stations that should not have automatic barriers, but there are other stations that deal with both long distance travellers, people changing traisn and short distance commuter traffic where barriers can be justified.

I haven't been to Newcastle since the barriers went in, but I cna imgaine that there may not be the space there for sufficient numbers to prevent congestion. At other busy stations, though, there is plenty of room - Leeds is an example. There are plenty of gates and during a recent four day stay involving a lot of train travel, I saw hardly any congestion.

Cardiff Central, on the other hand, does not have enough gates and when crowds build people are often just waved through, which rather negates the point of them in the first place.

 

[davelew99]

I've remembered the other reason why i dislike barriers -

They can ruin the passenger flow of a station - Birkenhead Hamilton Sq is clearly designed to have 'in' and 'out' doors on the lifts - in through the front, out through the back.

The back doors at ground level now no longer open and i suspect the street entrance is only open for fire regs or similar. There is also a 'Do not trespass, penalty £1000' notice on this entrance too.

At peak times you're battling the flow of people coming the other way. Going out the back way would reduce footfall past the shop too which wouldn't be a good idea commercially.

 

[gary47]

They could do with them at new st to stop the beggars getting onto the platforms where they check the tickets is not always manned and I have complained about them before also once I was sitting on a train there and a beggar got on at 1 end and walked all the way down the train asking people for money and got off at other end if you had barriers you wouldn't get this problem

 

[MidnightFlyer]

They could do with them at new st to stop the beggars getting onto the platforms where they check the tickets is not always manned and I have complained about them before also once I was sitting on a train there and a beggar got on at 1 end and walked all the way down the train asking people for money and got off at other end if you had barriers you wouldn't get this problem

He could just use the lift instead...

 

[ChathillMan]

I think barriers are needed however the true benefit will be found when the entire rail network goes 'smart' and you just 'touch in and out' , at present we are left waiting ages for the ticket to go through *looks at Newcastle ticket barriers*

 

[Firestarter]

Certainly Bedford already is - there is a member of FCC staff (usually two) there until the station closes, in addition to the dispatchers.

I would assume the same at Luton, due to the station layout - not so sure about Leagrave or St Albans - in the case of the former, it perhaps doesn't get enough use in the evenings to warrant barriers being in use, but the latter certainly does!

I didn't know Bedford has revenue staff through out the night.

 

[shinkansen1966]

I find ticket barriers acceptable at stations provided that:

• all the trains serving that station are operated by one TOC
• none of the services using that station have tickets with time restrictions

 

[mikkel]

Barriers are a good idea where the fare dodgers are concerned, but need to be manned during service times, to prevent jumpers, or two squeezing through on the one ticket, as I once saw on LUL.

 

[scotsman]

The sooner Altnabreac gets gated, the better!

 

[shinkansen1966]

Barriers are a good idea where the fare dodgers are concerned,

On board ticket inspections are a good idea where the fare dodgers are concerned.

 

[Harlesden]

Does Lincoln really need barriers? Not the busiest station on the network. Barriers need a rail employee in attendance. He/she could simply check tickets traditional style.

 

[Lampshade]

Does Lincoln really need barriers? Not the busiest station on the network. Barriers need a rail employee in attendance. He/she could simply check tickets traditional style.

One of the reasons they were installed at Lincoln was because the Guard couldn't get down the train and so streams of people were alighting at Lincoln and walking straight out. It was Central's own decision to gate Lincoln, not a franchise commitment.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

One of the reasons they were installed at Lincoln was because the Guard couldn't get down the train and so streams of people were alighting at Lincoln and walking straight out. It was Central's own decision to gate Lincoln, not a franchise commitment.

I thought it was EMT who did it after the refurbishment / track work?

 

[Urban Gateline]

The sooner Altnabreac gets gated, the better!

LOL you joker

I looked that station up on NRE and it's a tiny one in the countryside, looks harmless, a perfect example of a station NOT needing barriers, let alone ticket issuing facilities!

 

[scotsman]

LOL you joker

I looked that station up on NRE and it's a tiny one in the countryside, looks harmless, a perfect example of a station NOT needing barriers, let alone ticket issuing facilities!

One of the stations on the Kyle Line actually did get gated...to stop the sheep getting in - no joke!

 

[Badger]

I seem to be the only one who doesn't fare dodge at Wolverhampton.

On board ticket inspections are a good idea where the fare dodgers are concerned.

Not when they walk down the train asking "any tickets from x?" without specifically pointing people out! Those with tickets show them, those without don't...

My favourite would be personal data chips which record our travel. Yes, I know, Big Brother State but think of how much more smoothly things would go. You would be able to preload tickets onto your chip for when you want to advance book; otherwise you'd get charged when and where you travel.

Personally I avoid ticket barriers whenever possible simply because I'm not good with people. While I always have a ticket, there are alternative ways into at least three major stations I visit which have hefty ticket barriers on the main entrance. Not gonna mention them though in case a van turns up outside with blue flashy lights.

I despise anybody who fare dodges unwittingly because people pay a lot to be where they are on trains and they take a lot of upkeep.

 

[island]

I find ticket barriers acceptable at stations provided that:

• all the trains serving that station are operated by one TOC
• none of the services using that station have tickets with time restrictions

How many stations pass those criteria?

 

[mappman1000]

One time I lost my travelcard, so just used my London Terminals - Ipswich ticket to get out of the system at Liverpool street, how does that work?

 

[Lampshade]

How many stations pass those criteria?

Hundreds, every station on the Blackpool South and East Lancashire lines for a start.