luggage on seats !!

[Seacook]

Well, this is where I come in and I am gonna be honest with you guys

Me and my brother travelled back, first class, on the 30th last month and it wasn't full by any stretch of the imagination and I had a huge rucksack with some expensive equipment inside which I had tried to get onto the overhead racks but couldn't (even my brother tried) and a laptop case. My brother also had a laptop case but with our laptops being out, we put the cases in the racks.

Everything was fine until we got to Northampton when our train split with the New Street train and the guard came over and said that the train was full and that he was declassifying first class, not happy!

So through come some people and some people asked me nicely and I explained the situation, even showed them and they understood and moved on. Then come these two women and I told them they I couldn't move the bag because of the equipment inside and they I couldn't get it up onto the rack, they asked if I had paid for two seats and I said that I hadn't and before I got another word in, they took matters into their own hands and forced my bag into the rack. I asked them not to be rough because of the equipment and they didn't care, they just wanted a seat and then proceeded to be rude and aggressive, of which there was no need.

I got my bag back down and put it on the table to get something out so I could do something on the laptop and then saw that my equipment had been damaged and showed them what they had done but they didn't seem to care and laughed about it all the way off the train at Nuneaton

Anyway, long story short, if I was able to give up my seat, I would have willingly given it up but because of the delicate nature of my cargo which I was carrying, I wasnt able to put it anywhere. Luckily, the warranty on the items hadn't expired and I was able to get them replaced

If you couldn't get your rucksack into the overhead rack, why did you not not put it on the table? You would, presumably, not be able to use your laptop, but you would not be depriving anyone of a seat and your possessions would not be at risk.

How rigid is your rucksack? Would it have been possible to take some of the stuff out so that it could go in the rack? (Transferring some to the laptop case, perhaps?)

 

[Greenback]

Is the only option you have for all that stuff really one huge rucksack each?

Life is all about choices. You choose to go out. You choose to take a lot with you. You choose to put it all in a huge rucksack rather than carrying a couple of smaller bags. You choose not to put that huge bag out of your sight. You choose to sit down rather than stand with your bags so that others can sit down.

These are the choices you have made which has eld to anothe rpassenger, understnadably in the circumstance,s though that doesn;t make it correct either, movign your rucksack as you refused.

It is no one else's fault but your own. If you had made different choices, it wouldn't have happened.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

It is no one else's fault but your own.

I disagree with you and we are just gonna have to agree to disagree.

As far as my bag, they chose to move my bag, putting their hands on property that wasn't theirs and breaking equipment that wasn't theirs which I think is a hell of a lot worse than what I did.

I'll take criticism where it is due but I'm sorry, for you lot to side with them after what they did...........

 

[Greenback]

Because there were two laptops on the table!

Put your laptops in your bag then, and then the bag goes on the table. Or is it more important that you are able to sue your laptops and store your bag securely than allowing other people to have a more comfortable journey?

The other bag that we usually take has been ****ed on by the cat and was still ponging with cat pee

Possibly one of the feeblest exceuses I have ever heard! Buy another bag, or clean it out properly.

So my brother should have given his seat up as well

Maybe, maybe not, depending on the actual circumstances. Are you not able to sit down without each other? Perhaps you could take it in turns standing and guarding the bag or bags?

you are therefore saying that the poeple in first class would have had to give all of their seats up and move out so that everyone else who had to stand could sit down?

Don't be absurd. What I am saying that your bags would have had to give up their seats. Again, it's your choice, if you give up your seat to guard them.

So why didn't the other people complain when i showed them huh?

There could b dozens of reasons. They didn't want to be seen as making a fuss, they were too polite, they could see there were other seats.

The fact that they didn't remonstrate with you should not be taken as evidence that your behviour was in any way acceptable.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

If a pregnant woman or someone on crutches had asked for the seat would you have shifted your stuff ? If I have the need to cart expensive stuff around I would find a safer option than carting it round by train.

 

[wessex]

What you mean of course is that it's a pain for the person in the aisle seat to have to mvoe their stuff when the occupant of the window seat wants to get out.

As you were on a logn journey, it was obviously easier for you to sit at the window undistrubed.

I don't see how you can dress it up as doing them a favour though.

ooh I hope its me sat next to you and your in the window seat I will pretend to be asleep and refuse to wake up

 

[Greenback]

I disagree with you and we are just gonna have to agree to disagree.

As far as my bag, they chose to move my bag, putting their hands on property that wasn't theirs and breaking equipment that wasn't theirs which I think is a hell of a lot worse than what I did.

I'll take criticism where it is due but I'm sorry, for you lot to side with them after what they did...........

It's not siding with them, it's trying to point out to you that you are guilty of creating the situation in the first place. I'm not excusing their actions, they should have warned you first that if you didn't move the bags, they would do so for you.

The criticism here is well and truly due, whether you agree or disagree. I hope you have learnt from it so it doesn't happen again. Then everyone, including yourselves, will have a more comfortable and less hassle filled journey.

 

[Greenback]

ooh I hope its me sat next to you and your in the window seat I will pretend to be asleep and refuse to wake up

Good luck with that one!

 

[AlterEgo]

I disagree with you and we are just gonna have to agree to disagree.

But you created the situation through your own choices!

I love how this is a discussion forum but certain members aren't interested in a discussion....fascinates me daily.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Put your laptops in your bag then, and then the bag goes on the table. Or is it more important that you are able to sue your laptops and store your bag securely than allowing other people to have a more comfortable journey?

Possibly one of the feeblest exceuses I have ever heard! Buy another bag, or clean it out properly.

Maybe, maybe not, depending on the actual circumstances. Are you not able to sit down without each other? Perhaps you could take it in turns standing and guarding the bag or bags?

I'm sorry, have you met my brother? You are serious when you want him to stop doing what he is doing to occupy himself on a two and a half hour journey?

And as for you not believing what happened with the other bag, it happened, you don't like what I have said, tough! It happened overnight and we only found out about half an hour or so before we were due to go and get our taxi to get to Trent Valley. Sure, I am gonna pop down to Morrisons and get....oh damn, they are not open until eight. I know, lemme pop to Asda....oh, the nearest one is eight miles away! Please!

Don't be absurd. What I am saying that your bags would have had to give up their seats. Again, it's your choice, if you give up your seat to guard them.

I think what I said was perfectly reasonable

If a pregnant woman or someone on crutches had asked for the seat would you have shifted your stuff ? If I have the need to cart expensive stuff around I would find a safer option than carting it round by train.

Ooh, going for the attack on conscience, I like it! Not gonna work with me though, nice try!

It's not siding with them, it;s trying to point out to you that you are guilty of creating the situation in the first place. I'm not excusing their actions, they should have warned you first that if you didn't move the bags, they would do so for you.

The criticism here is well and truly due, whether you agree or disagree. I hope you have learnt from it so it doesn't happen again. Then everyone, including yourselves, will have a more comfortable and less hassle filled journey.

The criticism is not due, whenever I have gone down to London in the past, I have done every effort to make seats available, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

But this has obviously become the IPT bashing thread again so hey, go and get all ya mates and let them join in, I don't mind(!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But you created the situation through your own choices!

I love how this is a discussion forum but certain members aren't interested in a discussion....fascinates me daily.

And yeah, so what? I chose to do this, I chose to do that, I chose to go and run naked around the streets of London(!), who cares what I chose to do? Are you telling me now that I cannot choose to do things now? Are you telling me that I cannot choose to take all of this stuff? You wanna come run my life? I mean you're more than welcome to come and try that

 

[AlterEgo]

IPT, are you here for a discussion or just to justify your own actions?

And why do you think everyone "bashes" you? Actually most of the criticism in this thread is deserved.

You prevented a paying customer from sitting down because you refused to give up a seat which was occupied by a bag. Do you think it is okay that a bag should get priority over a human being?

 

[A-driver]

I mean you stand up with your bag. Incredibly selfish to expect others to stand so your bag gets a seat, or you sit in the aisle seat with bag in floor next to you? Are lots of work arounds. If you couldn't put bag on table because of laptops on there already then put the laptops away! This is PUBLIC transport, not a taxi!

 

[IanPooleTrains]

IPT, are you here for a discussion or just to justify your own actions?

And why do you think everyone "bashes" you? Actually most of the criticism in this thread is deserved.

You prevented a paying customer from sitting down because you refused to give up a seat which was occupied by a bag. Do you think it is okay that a bag should get priority over a human being?

I ain't justifying my own actions, never said I was, never said I did. I feel that this is a bashing thread because I don't feel it is deserved, I feel i did everything in my power to try and give a seat up and if you lot wanna bash me for trying, hell, let's all have a bash, why not?

And of course, you were there and you know for a fact that that is a paying customer? I don't know that, you don't know so please don't make assumptions

 

[AlterEgo]

You still haven't told me what you meant by the comment with the three pens and the Diareze

And yeah, so what? I chose to do this, I chose to do that, I chose to go and run naked around the streets of London(!), who cares what I chose to do? Are you telling me now that I cannot choose to do things now? Are you telling me that I cannot choose to take all of this stuff? You wanna come run my life? I mean you're more than welcome to come and try that

You're welcome to take whatever you like within reason. But you have to accept that your choices may affect others. That's life. Sorry for the reality check.

Rules, good manners and etiquette often preclude us from doing exactly what we want, when we want!

So everyone else on here is wrong except for you - yet again.

 

[Greenback]

I'm sorry, have you met my brother? You are serious when you want him to stop doing what he is doing to occupy himself on a two and a half hour journey?

I don't know quite what you mean by that. Are you saying he has some special and unique reason to be treated differently?

And as for you not believing what happened with the other bag, it happened, you don't like what I have said, tough!

I never said I didn't believe it. I just meant it was a feeble excuse to bring in as justification for denying other passengers a seat.

The criticism is not due, whenever I have gone down to London in the past, I have done every effort to make seats available, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

We ar enot debating other trips. We ar edebating this one, where you clearly didn't make any effort at all.

But this has obviously become the IPT bashing thread again so hey, go and get all ya mates and let them join in, I don't mind(!)

What mates? What are you talking about? You ar emerely being criticised for your selfish actions in refusing to move your luggage, and then whining when someone else moved it.

And yeah, so what? I chose to do this, I chose to do that, I chose to go and run naked around the streets of London(!), who cares what I chose to do? Are you telling me now that I cannot choose to do things now? Are you telling me that I cannot choose to take all of this stuff? You wanna come run my life? I mean you're more than welcome to come and try that

You are free to make choices. Every choice has consequences. It seems to em that this is something that you need to realise. Alterego has got it exactly right - we ar enot free to do exactly what we want whenever we want to do it. That seems to be another lesson that may need to be elarnt here.

 

[Scotrail84]

not sure if there is a thread regards this .
yesterday fri 7 oct i caught the 12.53 Derby to Birmingham new st voyager as i walked down the coach i noticed mainly female passengers with a case or bag on the window seat and the women sat on the outside seat, ive also noticed blokes do the same , what anoyys me is some passengers stand in the vestibule , not me a told this women that seat isnt for luggage, we would have more seats if ignorant passengers would not use seats as a luggage rack.

Just ask them to move it. If they wont move it, then move it for them.


Grand Central make an announcement to the effect that any bags on seats will be chagred at a full open fare. That seems to work!

I do that too especially on our Aberdeens as they are usually rammed and only booked a 3 car turbo. It does work.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I got my bag back down and put it on the table to get something out so I could do something on the laptop and then saw that my equipment had been damaged


Sorry mate more fool you for carrying expensive equipment in a flimsy bag. Were there no luggage racks at the ends of the coach you could have used instead of selfishly occupying seats?

 

[IanPooleTrains]

I don't know quite what you mean by that. Are you saying he has some special and unique reason to be treated differently?

No, I'm actually trying to say that if someone tells him that he has to do something against his will or tries to tell him what to do on a train, he gets a little bit agitated, like myself right now, comprende?

I never said I didn't believe it. I just meant it was a feeble excuse to bring in as justification for denying other passengers a seat.

I think you were saying that and I think that that is a feeble excuse to justify why you said it

We ar edebating this one, where you clearly didn't make any effort at all.

And of course, you were there and you knew this for a fact!

You ar emerely being criticised for your selfish actions in refusing to move your luggage, and then whining when someone else moved it.

Wrongly criticised, wrongly!

That seems to be another lesson that may need to be elarnt here.

I think you might need to learn how to spell but as for me, I've learnt nothing, clear conscience over here

 

[Allan5819]

The reason people do it is that they want a quiet journey and they have no consideration whatsoever that the train is crowded. "Bloke do it too" you say but two examples here. I was on a Kings Cross to Edinburgh train the other week and 10 seats were taken up by bags.....all belonging to women. On the bus the other day only 4 seats remaining all with bags on .... all belonging to women. 14 out of 14. The facts and figures speak for themselves in my experiences. It's a woman thing!!

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Were there no luggage racks at the ends of the coach you could have used instead of selfishly occupying seats?

Tell you all what, lemme introduce you to something:

You know what that is? That is the first class interior of a 350/2 which is what we had. Now, let's have a good look around for a luggage rack at the ends....OH, they don't have one :roll:

Any spacing between seats?????? OH, no, we don't have that either!

Under the seats? well, when I fully stand, it comes to just underneath the top of my calf and, OH, my bag is bigger than that is both ways.

We have already been well informed that we couldn't get my bag in the racks above so, sorry, not selfish on my part, clear conscience

 

[AlterEgo]

IPT, answer this please, as you've dodged it twice already.

Is it acceptable for a bag to have a seat over a fare-paying passenger?

 

[IanPooleTrains]

IPT, answer this please, as you've dodged it twice already.

Is it acceptable for a bag to have a seat over a fare-paying passenger?

Well you have dodged mine twice, so I would say we are even now

But if you really want an answer, did I say it was? Did I say it wasn't? I made every single effort I could and was not able to do anything about it

 

[Greenback]

No, I'm actually trying to say that if someone tells him that he has to do something against his will or tries to tell him what to do on a train, he gets a little bit agitated, like myself right now, comprende?

Are you getting agitated? What happens when your brother gets agitated? What happens if someone like that comes along and becomes agitated that someone else won't move their bag from a seat?

I really don't see the point or relevance of this line of defence. Unless it's meant to be some of threat.

I think you were saying that and I think that that is a feeble excuse to justify why you said it

Well, I'm happy to let other forum members and contributors to this thread decide for themselves rather than get involved with a pointless argument that is only intended to deflect attention from the real issue.

And of course, you were there and you knew this for a fact!

I have reached this conclusion from reading your own description of what happened. I assume it is an accurate account? If so, it's pretty clear you deliberately made no attempt to move the luggage or yourselves. Indeed, you refused to do so.

Wrongly criticised, wrongly!

Well, the opposite viewseems to be very much the consensus.

I think you might need to learn how to spell but as for me, I've learnt nothing, clear conscience over here

When you start making personal remarks about another members typo's, it indicates that you have nothing relevant to add.

If you have learnt nothing and have a clear conscience, then there's not much left to say really, is there?

 

[Adam_Harrison]

By the looks of things you could of put it under the seat? My 85L Bergen would fit there, how big was your bag?

 

[SS4]

I can see where IPT is coming from, especially if other seats were available in the carriage (as implied by the fact that others understood). It's not right but what else was he meant to do?

By the way I hope you'll be applying for a partial refund IPT on the grounds of their being no first class from NMP.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

By the looks of things you could of put it under the seat? My 85L Bergen would fit there, how big was your bag?

There are metal bars supporting the seats about half way down which would impede any attempt to put anything there. Even my relatively small bag (in comparison) would not fit.
That being said if I were lugging expensive equipment around I'd attempt to protect it in more than one way (ie: wrap the camera in newspaper)

 

[Adam_Harrison]

There are metal bars supporting the seats about half way down which would impede any attempt to put anything there. Even my relatively small bag (in comparison) would not fit.
That being said if I were lugging expensive equipment around I'd attempt to protect it in more than one way (ie: wrap the camera in newspaper)

My mistake! Never travelled on 350s

 

[SS4]

My mistake! Never travelled on 350s

I'm not saying it couldn't fit but those bars tend to trisect the rather large under seat capacity

 

[AlterEgo]

So in this case it's okay that a bag got a seat over a person?

Just clarifying. Yes or no will do.

 

[SS4]

So in this case it's okay that a bag got a seat over a person?

Just clarifying. Yes or no will do.

From my POV it's too complicated to decide

If there were other seats available: yes
If there were not other seats available: no

What is sure is that if IPT is telling the truth (and I see no reason to disbelieve him here) then the women were certainly rude. Although I'm not sure why IPT simply didn't leave the bag on the table?

 

[Greenback]

I can see where IPT is coming from, especially if other seats were available in the carriage (as implied by the fact that others understood). It's not right but what else was he meant to do?

Stand in vestibule with the bag/s
Put the laptops into the bag and the bag on to the table, or hold on lap
Put the luggage under the table
Put the luggage under the seat
Put the luggage on the floor, maybe a little under the seat and the table

We don't know the exact size of the rucksack or bags in question, so it's difficult to know whether some of those are valid option sor not. But I think it's fair to say that there wer eoptions other than preventing others from sitting down.

I doubt I would have been very impressed if I had asked someone to move their bags from a seat and was told there were other seats I could sit in.

By the way I hope you'll be applying for a partial refund IPT on the grounds of their being no first class from NMP.

Ian is entitled to a partial refund for the declassification of first class. I hope he does apply too, as he hasn't received what he paid for.

 

[IanPooleTrains]

When you start making personal remarks about another members typo's, it indicates that you have nothing relevant to add.

If you have learnt nothing and have a clear conscience, then there's not much left to say really, is there?

Whoa, now you hold on a second, don't you dare imply that I have made a personal attack on you, don't you even go there. I was merely pointing something out for your own benefit.

And don't you dare make comments that are not true, I did not threaten you, I did not refuse to do anything and I will be damned that someone who wasn't there to know or see the facts tell me otherwise. I have said it a million times before and I am getting blue in the face from saying it to people like you, I made every single damn effort to move but couldn't. Not wouldn't, not shouldn't, couldn't! You have the picture in front of you, you have the facts and if you choose to disbelieve them, that makes me have an opinion of you!