Wrong railcard prosecution letter

[olliec1234]

Hi all,

I’m 21 and I used the wrong rail card to make my train journeys cheaper through the uber app. I used the job saver + railcard as it was the cheapest and have never had an actual railcard. I got the Orpington to London Bridge train and it cut it down from £16.30 to £8 a day.

I got caught after doing it 37 times in June and was given a fine which I paid on the spot. It’s now October and I have just gotten a letter saying they may press charges (photo attached). But I haven’t done it since then

I’ll happily pay whatever I owe I just don’t want to have a criminal record.

I haven’t replied to their letter yet and will do soon, i have written out a draft letter accepting responsibility and asking for it to be an out of court settlement. Do I send it?

Please help me asap I’m really scared.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi all,

I’m 21 and I used the wrong rail card to make my train journeys cheaper through the uber app. I used the job saver + railcard as it was the cheapest and have never had an actual railcard. I got the Orpington to London Bridge train and it cut it down from £16.30 to £8 a day.

I got caught after doing it 37 times in June and was given a fine which I paid on the spot. It’s now October and I have just gotten a letter saying they may press charges (photo attached). But I haven’t done it since then

I’ll happily pay whatever I owe I just don’t want to have a criminal record.

I haven’t replied to their letter yet and will do soon, i have written out a draft letter accepting responsibility and asking for it to be an out of court settlement. Do I send it?

Please help me asap I’m really scared.

Welcome to the forum.

Your letter doesn't seem to be attached: unless that's our settings delaying it, please have another go, although make sure you hide anything that identifies you. That way we'll know exactly what you are being asked about.

And we can comment more on your proposed reply if you show us that - so please show us your draft!

 

[Western Gaffer]

Your letter doesn't seem to be attached: unless that's our settings delaying it, please have another go, although make sure you hide anything that identifies you. That way we'll know exactly what you are being asked about.

OP originally posted it but in unredacted form, so it was removed...

 

[olliec1234]

Welcome to the forum.

Your letter doesn't seem to be attached: unless that's our settings delaying it, please have another go, although make sure you hide anything that identifies you. That way we'll know exactly what you are being asked about.

And we can comment more on your proposed reply if you show us that - so please show us your draft!

Hi it was just a letter saying they will press charges if I don’t reply. What’s the chances of getting it taken to court since it was 37 times and I’m 21

 

[soccermad]

You need to post the letter with your details redacted to enable us to give the best advice and not incriminate yourself any further by your response

 

[olliec1234]

Hi all,

I’m 21 and I used the wrong rail card to make my train journeys cheaper through the uber app. I used the job saver + railcard as it was the cheapest and have never had an actual railcard. I got the Orpington to London Bridge train and it cut it down from £16.30 to £8 a day.

I got caught after doing it 37 times in June and was given a fine which I paid on the spot. It’s now October and I have just gotten a letter saying they may press charges (photo attached). But I haven’t done it since then

I’ll happily pay whatever I owe I just don’t want to have a criminal record.

I haven’t replied to their letter yet and will do soon, i have written out a draft letter accepting responsibility and asking for it to be an out of court settlement. Do I send it?

Please help me asap I’m really scared.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 21:44 ==

Hi it was just a letter saying they will press charges if I don’t reply. What’s the chances of getting it taken to court since it was 37 times and I’m 21

 

[Fawkes Cat]

In your initial post, you say

I got caught after doing it 37 times in June and was given a fine which I paid on the spot.

Were you given anything before or when you paid this fine? If so, even better, do you still have it? Did you pay by credit/ debit card? If so, does it show up on a statement

The reason I ask is that it seems to me that if you have already paid a penalty then that should be the end of the matter. But Southeastern's prosecutions are in a bit of a mess at the moment so I wouldn't rule out the possibility that they have sent out the wrong letter. If you can show that you have already paid a penalty, then that may be what you should tell them.

 

[olliec1234]

In your initial post, you say

Were you given anything before or when you paid this fine? If so, even better, do you still have it? Did you pay by credit/ debit card? If so, does it show up on a statement

The reason I ask is that it seems to me that if you have already paid a penalty then that should be the end of the matter. But Southeastern's prosecutions are in a bit of a mess at the moment so I wouldn't rule out the possibility that they have sent out the wrong letter. If you can show that you have already paid a penalty, then that may be what you should tell them.

I’m thinking they may have back tracked the previous wrong railcard usages here. Is that even possible? I also have email confirmation where I paid the £59.40 that they charged me but not the original fine. That was given on paper in person

 

[WesternLancer]

In your initial post, you say

Were you given anything before or when you paid this fine? If so, even better, do you still have it? Did you pay by credit/ debit card? If so, does it show up on a statement

The reason I ask is that it seems to me that if you have already paid a penalty then that should be the end of the matter. But Southeastern's prosecutions are in a bit of a mess at the moment so I wouldn't rule out the possibility that they have sent out the wrong letter. If you can show that you have already paid a penalty, then that may be what you should tell them.

Good point.

I suspect if no response is sent this will escalate.

Given SE trains standard wording now refers to ‘incident’ a reply could incriminate oneself.

So while I suspect a reply is necessary the wording needs to be carefully drafted. Presumably in order to get them to clarify what they accuse the op of.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 22:44 ==

I’m thinking they may have back tracked the previous wrong railcard usages here. Is that even possible?

They can certainly trawl your on line ticket buying records to see if there is a history of buying tickets with such a railcard. Whoever you buy tickets from.
Trainline regularly provides such information to investigators.

 

[olliec1234]

Good point.

I suspect if no response is sent this will escalate.

Given SE trains standard wording now refers to ‘incident’ a reply could incriminate oneself.

So while I suspect a reply is necessary the wording needs to be carefully drafted. Presumably in order to get them to clarify what they accuse the op of.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 22:44 ==


They can certainly trawl your on line ticket buying records to see if there is a history of buying tickets with such a railcard. Whoever you buy tickets from.
Trainline regularly provides such information to investigators.

What do I even reply with? Some places say it’s best to accept fault and be honest then they won’t take me to court other places say to ask, will they even reply to me or just take my next reply as the last bit of evidence and leave it there?

 

[WesternLancer]

What do I even reply with? Some places say it’s best to accept fault and be honest then they won’t take me to court other places say to ask, will they even reply to me or just take my next reply as the last bit of evidence and leave it there?

See what people here think you should say given the context of what sounds like a Penalty Fare has already been paid in respect of the “incident”

 

[olliec1234]

See what people here think you should say given the context of what sounds like a Penalty Fare has already been paid in respect of the “incident”

I think they want the rest of their money back. I will happily pay it. I really messed up here…

 

[Fawkes Cat]

You have admitted to us that on 37 occasions you fare dodged. In general, that's the sort of behaviour which most people would expect to face punishment.

But in a backhanded way, Southeastern have done you a favour. As you can prove (post #8) that you paid the penalty fare, then unless they withdraw the penalty fare they can't prosecute you for the time you were caught. And unless you admit it to them they don't have proof of the other 36 times. They are so far off the proper process that if this got to court and the error was pointed out, I would expect the case to be thrown out.

So what you want to do now is get them to abandon their investigation before it gets much further. So you need to respond politely to their letter pointing out you have paid the penalty fare (it's probably a good idea to send them a copy of the email showing this) and asking them to confirm that the matter is closed.

And make sure that you pay the right train fare going forward. You are now on the railway's radar and they are unlikely to make a mistake to your advantage again if they catch you again.

 

[olliec1234]

You have admitted to us that on 37 occasions you fare dodged. In general, that's the sort of behaviour which most people would expect to face punishment.

But in a backhanded way, Southeastern have done you a favour. As you can prove (post #8) that you paid the penalty fare, then unless they withdraw the penalty fare they can't prosecute you for the time you were caught. And unless you admit it to them they don't have proof of the other 36 times. They are so far off the proper process that if this got to court and the error was pointed out, I would expect the case to be thrown out.

So what you want to do now is get them to abandon their investigation before it gets much further. So you need to respond politely to their letter pointing out you have paid the penalty fare (it's probably a good idea to send them a copy of the email showing this) and asking them to confirm that the matter is closed.

And make sure that you pay the right train fare going forward. You are now on the railway's radar and they are unlikely to make a mistake to your advantage again if they catch you again.

So since I paid the fine they gave me already they can’t take it to court? I thought that fine would be for that specific journey not all of them. I have been paying the proper fare ever since I got the fine.

 

[AlterEgo]

So since I paid the fine they gave me already they can’t take it to court? I thought that fine would be for that specific journey not all of them. I have been paying the proper fare ever since I got the fine.

They cannot prosecute you for a crime here becuase they did not catch you in the act for all of the occasions other than the time you were penalty fared. They could sue you in court for the money owed but that's about it.

 

[Haywain]

was given a fine which I paid on the spot.

How much did you pay on the spot and what paperwork were you given?

 

[olliec1234]

How much did you pay on the spot and what paperwork were you given?

It was from the revenue protection officer and it was a fine for not paying that specific ticket I don’t have a photo of it since this was months ago and I assumed this matter was over it was like £52.90 or doubles to £100 if not played within 2 weeks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 08:11 ==

They cannot prosecute you for a crime here becuase they did not catch you in the act for all of the occasions other than the time you were penalty fared. They could sue you in court for the money owed but that's about it.

But surely the back tracking since they scanned my e ticket and then had access to my account. Can they really not prosecute me?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

But surely the back tracking since they scanned my e ticket and then had access to my account. Can they really not prosecute me?

They know that you bought the tickets. But except for the time they caught you, they don't know that *you* used them. And it's using an invalid ticket that's an offence.

 

[olliec1234]

They know that you bought the tickets. But except for the time they caught you, they don't know that *you* used them. And it's using an invalid ticket that's an offence.

But then if it does go to court then I can’t prove it wasn’t me and they will most likely pull up cctv of me walking in / out of the stations. If I admit to what I’ve done and reply to the letter they sent will they allow me to just repay the money that I owe them and leave it there?

 

[SuspectUsual]

But then if it does go to court then I can’t prove it wasn’t me and they will most likely pull up cctv of me walking in / out of the stations. If I admit to what I’ve done and reply to the letter they sent will they allow me to just repay the money that I owe them and leave it there?

The chances of them having CCTV from beyond a few weeks ago are slim, and even if they did the chances of them having the ability and resources to cross-reference that with the times the tickets you used were scanned through datelines and then be able to prove to the criminal standard (ie beyond reasonable doubt) that you were the person involved are I would say vanishingly small

For whatever reason - mostly likely their organisational chaos - it seems you've likely dodged a bullet here.

My advice would be don't admit to anything else, and keep your nose clean from now on. If you're caught again the outcome won't be as good

 

[olliec1234]

The chances of them having CCTV from beyond a few weeks ago are slim, and even if they did the chances of them having the ability and resources to cross-reference that with the times the tickets you used were scanned through datelines and then be able to prove to the criminal standard (ie beyond reasonable doubt) that you were the person involved are I would say vanishingly small

For whatever reason - mostly likely their organisational chaos - it seems you've likely dodged a bullet here.

My advice would be don't admit to anything else, and keep your nose clean from now on. If you're caught again the outcome won't be as good

Alright that makes sense thank you. What do I reply to the letter that they sent with with then?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

But then if it does go to court then I can’t prove it wasn’t me and they will most likely pull up cctv of me walking in / out of the stations. If I admit to what I’ve done and reply to the letter they sent will they allow me to just repay the money that I owe them and leave it there?

This is where it gets a little technical. In the criminal court (the one that can fine you, and for other more serious offences can send you to prison) it's for the prosecution (the railway) to prove 'beyond reasonable doubt' that you did it. It's not for the defence (you) to prove that you didn't.

So even if there's CCTV of you walking into the station (and see what @SuspectUsual has said above while I was writing this) does that prove you used a dodgy ticket? No, it just proves that you were there at the same time. Most probably there were other commuters too - maybe it was them and not you?

Strictly, this is a biased system. But for good moral reasons it's biased in your favour.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Today at 08:34 ==

Alright that makes sense thank you. What do I reply to the letter that they sent with with then?

See paragraph 3 of my post #13 above.

 

[WesternLancer]

. So you need to respond politely to their letter pointing out you have paid the penalty fare (it's probably a good idea to send them a copy of the email showing this) and asking them to confirm that the matter is closed.

I would think a reply of this nature at this stage is the thing to do.

Then the OP can see what the railway company says in response to that. Eg if they make a specific allegation or state an intention of anything further they intend to do the op can engage with it.

The op could draft such a reply and share it here if they want any feedback.

 

[olliec1234]

I would think a reply of this nature at this stage is the thing to do.

Then the OP can see what the railway company says in response to that. Eg if they make a specific allegation or state an intention of anything further they intend to do the op can engage with it.

The op could draft such a reply and share it here if they want any feedback.

I’m seeing online that if I acknowledge that I have done this and admit to it then they will just charge me the rest of the money that’s owed. Is this true from your experience of dealing with these situations in the past?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I’m seeing online that if I acknowledge that I have done this and admit to it then they will just charge me the rest of the money that’s owed. Is this true from your experience of dealing with these situations in the past?

No, it's not true.

Our experience is that the railways almost invariably seek an extra amount to cover an 'admin fee' - the costs that they have incurred in investigating your case. This can be as low as £50 and can be £250 or conceivably more. While that might feel like an unreasonable surcharge, you need to bear in mind that if the case was taken to court, then the railway would be looking for the fare(s) back and their costs - and there would be a fine, victim surcharge and court costs on top of that. So while there is disagreement between contributors to this site as to how reasonable the admin fees charged are, the general view is that it is better to accept them rather than to risk prosecution, as prosecution will cost more.

 

[olliec1234]

Dear SE Trains Limited Prosecutions Team,


I am writing in prompt response to your investigation letter dated 12th October 2026 regarding the incident on 3rd June 2026 (Reference: ).


When I was stopped by an inspector in June and paid my £50 penalty fare on the spot, I genuinely believed the matter was fully concluded. Receiving your letter has been a massive shock, and I am incredibly anxious about the prospect of court proceedings or a criminal record, which would ruin my future.


I want to be completely honest and cooperative. I recognize that using an incorrect fare configuration on my app leading up to that date was a severe error in judgment. Being stopped was a complete wake-up call for me; immediately after the incident in June, I removed the railcard from my app and have strictly used standard tap-in/tap-out payment methods ever since.


I take full responsibility for my actions and want to make things right. I would be deeply grateful if Southeastern would consider resolving this matter via an out-of-court settlement rather than taking this to court. I am fully prepared to repay any outstanding fare differences for any relevant journeys, alongside covering Southeastern’s administrative and investigative costs.


Please let me know the total amount required so I can make payment immediately. Thank you for your time, consideration, and fairness.


Yours sincerely,

Is this alright to say?

 

[WesternLancer]

I’m seeing online that if I acknowledge that I have done this and admit to it then they will just charge me the rest of the money that’s owed. Is this true from your experience of dealing with these situations in the past?

Not necessarily. Many train companies might seek to obtain funds for new tickets at the full rate as if no railcard was held for the full journey (not the difference) - so £9.40 each way (Anytime Single Fare) for the journey you mention. Often with an 'admin' fee on top

But the point is that they have not said what they want from you - they are asking you to talk about an 'incident' - which on the one hand is a convenient standard letter text they can send to anyone whatever their 'incident' might be - but on the other hand could be an attempt to get you to tell them about things they don't actually know and thus incriminate yourself. You are not avoiding them in an uncooperative manner.

By replying as @Fawkes Cat suggests you are telling them about the incident on 3rd June from your point of view and thus engaging with it, not telling them about other stuff they may or may not know about. They should at least be prepared to put to you what it is they want you to tell them about. Then you can get advice on how best to deal with that in any further reply.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Dear SE Trains Limited Prosecutions Team,


I am writing in prompt response to your investigation letter dated 12th October 2026 regarding the incident on 3rd June 2026 (Reference: ).


When I was stopped by an inspector in June and paid my £50 penalty fare on the spot, I genuinely believed the matter was fully concluded. Receiving your letter has been a massive shock, and I am incredibly anxious about the prospect of court proceedings or a criminal record, which would ruin my future.


I want to be completely honest and cooperative. I recognize that using an incorrect fare configuration on my app leading up to that date was a severe error in judgment. Being stopped was a complete wake-up call for me; immediately after the incident in June, I removed the railcard from my app and have strictly used standard tap-in/tap-out payment methods ever since.


I take full responsibility for my actions and want to make things right. I would be deeply grateful if Southeastern would consider resolving this matter via an out-of-court settlement rather than taking this to court. I am fully prepared to repay any outstanding fare differences for any relevant journeys, alongside covering Southeastern’s administrative and investigative costs.


Please let me know the total amount required so I can make payment immediately. Thank you for your time, consideration, and fairness.


Yours sincerely,

Is this alright to say?

You can legitimately be more robust. I would suggest a small addition (in italics), and quite a lot of deletion (struck through) as follows:

Dear SE Trains Limited Prosecutions Team,


I am writing in prompt response to your investigation letter dated 12th October 2026 regarding the incident on 3rd June 2026 (Reference: ).


When I was stopped by an inspector in June and paid my £50 penalty fare on the spot, I genuinely believed the matter was fully concluded. I enclose a copy of the email I received from you confirming that I have paid the penalty fare. I understand this to have brought the matter to an end Receiving your letter has been a massive shock, and I am incredibly anxious about the prospect of court proceedings or a criminal record, which would ruin my future.


I want to be completely honest and cooperative. I recognize that using an incorrect fare configuration on my app leading up to that date was a severe error in judgment. Being stopped was a complete wake-up call for me; immediately after the incident in June, I removed the railcard from my app and have strictly used standard tap-in/tap-out payment methods ever since.


I take full responsibility for my actions and want to make things right. I would be deeply grateful if Southeastern would consider resolving this matter via an out-of-court settlement rather than taking this to court. I am fully prepared to repay any outstanding fare differences for any relevant journeys, alongside covering Southeastern’s administrative and investigative costs.


Please let me know the total amount required so I can make payment immediately. Thank you for your time, consideration, and fairness.


Yours sincerely,

 

[WesternLancer]

You can legitimately be more robust. I would suggest a small addition (in italics), and quite a lot of deletion (struck through) as follows:

Perhaps if the OP wishes to be more co-operative in their response to the letter they have received they could add to the end of your amended draft words along the lines of

'If there are any other matters relating to this incident please let me know what they are'

There are presumably pros and cons to such an addition, and I see your amends seek to remove sections of the OPs draft that essentially indicate that there is more to be said (by implication about other journeys / other evasion) and point towards volunteering to pay them money for other incidents, which I presume is considered to be unwise. Or at least unwise at this point.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I see your amends seek to remove sections of the OPs draft that essentially indicate that there is more to be said (by implication about other journeys / other evasion) and point towards volunteering to pay them money for other incidents, which I presume is considered to be unwise. Or at least unwise at this point.

That's more or less what I was trying to get at. I possibly should expand on what I said in post #22: not only does the law make it up to the prosecution to prove their case, but the defendant is not (in general) obliged to say anything that might harm their case. At the same time, you shouldn't lie (this is why in cop shows on the TV, the suspect will often answer 'no comment' - they've been asked a question that they don't want to answer, so all they say is that they're not giving an answer). In this case, that means that the OP does not need to volunteer information about times that they travelled on a dodgy ticket, but which Southeastern hasn't asked about.